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Underground Lake Found On Mars Beneath A Mile Of Ice

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Salt + Water = ?????

An Italian team of scientists says it has strong evidence of a subsurface lake of liquid water on Mars. It's a discovery that adds to the speculation that there could once have been life on Mars — and raises the possibility that it might be there still today, since liquid water is an essential ingredient for life.
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  • A probe of the European Space Agency has been taking radar pictures of Mars since 2003
  • In 2007 they detected an area where radio waves were strongly reflected, near the South Pole
  • It took years to reach better observations due to the way data was acquired on the spacecraft
  • Cold water is opaque to radio waves. An underground lake at below-zero temperature would produce the measured signal
  • It must be very salty if it is below zero
  • NASA orbiter did not detect the same signal, but they operate at a different frequency which may scatter in the South Pole. So the lake may not be real, or it may be a spacecraft limitation.
  • More observations are needed. Chinese orbiter may be able to confirm in the near future.
  • The scientists interpret this feature as a stable body of liquid water on Mars.

NPR | Underground Lake Found On Mars Beneath A Mile Of Ice
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Salt + Water = ?????


  • A probe of the European Space Agency has been taking radar pictures of Mars since 2003
  • In 2007 they detected an area where radio waves were strongly reflected, near the South Pole
  • It took years to reach better observations due to the way data was acquired on the spacecraft
  • Cold water is opaque to radio waves. An underground lake at below-zero temperature would produce the measured signal
  • It must be very salty if it is below zero
  • NASA orbiter did not detect the same signal, but they operate at a different frequency which may scatter in the South Pole. So the lake may not be real, or it may be a spacecraft limitation.
  • More observations are needed. Chinese orbiter may be able to confirm in the near future.
  • The scientists interpret this feature as a stable body of liquid water on Mars.

NPR | Underground Lake Found On Mars Beneath A Mile Of Ice
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Below 0 on what scale?
0 Celsius is the temperature fresh water freezes
0 Fahrenheit is the tempature sea water freezes
0 Kelvin is the temperature that atomic movement freezes

It kinda matters

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trouble13 said:
Below 0 on what scale?
0 Celsius is the temperature fresh water freezes
0 Fahrenheit is the tempature sea water freezes
0 Kelvin is the temperature that atomic movement freezes

It kinda matters

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I just read sea water freezers at 28 F typically
 
trouble13 said:
Below 0 on what scale?
0 Celsius is the temperature fresh water freezes
0 Fahrenheit is the tempature sea water freezes
0 Kelvin is the temperature that atomic movement freezes

It kinda matters

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Click to expand...

Not really. Life is found everywhere on Earth.
 
trouble13 said:
Below 0 on what scale?
0 Celsius is the temperature fresh water freezes
0 Fahrenheit is the tempature sea water freezes
0 Kelvin is the temperature that atomic movement freezes

It kinda matters

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Nobody that matters scientifically uses ****ing Fahrenheit and 0 Kelvin doesn't exist in the universe, so you take a wild stab at which it might be, bud.
 
So this lake is no doubt a big block of ice beneath another block of ice. Nothing new here since we know Mars already has ice and salt.
 
Something kind of interesting to ponder is how closely the conditions on Mars mimics the earth yet there is no known life there. It raises the question of how is it for life to form.

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trouble13 said:
Something kind of interesting to ponder is how closely the conditions on Mars mimics the earth yet there is no known life there. It raises the question of how is it for life to form.

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Mars is very different compared to Earth. Very thin atmosphere, with only trace amounts of oxygen, and almost vacuum conditions. Temperatures on the average is well below freezing, and there's no magnetic field.

As far as life on the Red Planet, we're still not sure since there hasnt been any detailed tests made.
 
trouble13 said:
Not sure where you read that but it's false. Sea water freezes at 0 f.

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https://wonderopolis.org/wonder/does-salt-water-freeze


Although the saltiness of ocean water varies, often ocean water has about 35 grams of salt for every 1,000 units of water. This lowers the freezing point of ocean water to about -1.8° C or 28.8° F. So ocean water will freeze. It just needs to reach a lower temperature.
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https://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/road-salt.htm

Ice forms when the* temperature of water reaches 32 degrees Fahrenheit (0 degrees Celsius). When you add salt, that temperature drops: A 10-percent salt solution freezes at 20 F (-6 C), and a 20-percent solution freezes at 2 F (-16 C). On a roadway, this means that if you sprinkle salt on the ice, you can melt it. The salt dissolves into the liquid water in the ice and lowers its freezing point.
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Note Sea water is not 20% salt
 
trouble13 said:
Something kind of interesting to ponder is how closely the conditions on Mars mimics the earth yet there is no known life there. It raises the question of how is it for life to form.

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Conditions aren’t similar at all. Mars has wild temperature fluctuations even at the height of summer going from a decent 20 degrees C at the equator during the day to -73 degrees C at night. It has only a very thin atmosphere and no magnetosphere - which means the surface is basically sterilized by solar radiation and it’s atmosphere continues to be stripped away. There may be something there clinging to life in extreme conditions but it’s effectively a dead planet.
 
Kind if a sloppy headline for a science piece. Strong evidence is not the same thing as found. This definitely warrants further research, and is very cool.
 
Napoleon said:
It has only a very thin atmosphere and no magnetosphere - which means the surface is basically sterilized by solar radiation
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It also means that water boils at 10 degrees - another reason why finding a lake of liquid water is a pretty cool finding.
 
PoS said:
Mars is very different compared to Earth. Very thin atmosphere, with only trace amounts of oxygen, and almost vacuum conditions. Temperatures on the average is well below freezing, and there's no magnetic field.

As far as life on the Red Planet, we're still not sure since there hasnt been any detailed tests made.
Click to expand...
My post was missing some words but I was only saying that life may be more rare than many suspect.

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trouble13 said:
Not sure where you read that but it's false. Sea water freezes at 0 f.

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He is correct. Sea water freezes around 28F. Though to be fair to you, at 0 F it is certainly frozen as well. ;)

Also, I am not sure if that holds the same on Mars due to pressure and salinity differences.
 
Taylor said:
It also means that water boils at 10 degrees - another reason why finding a lake of liquid water is a pretty cool finding.
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Meh. I don’t know why we continue to pour money into poking around a dead planet when there are plenty of other locales in the solar system with greater potential to harbor life. We could be exploring the methane lakes of Titan or the subsurface ocean of Europa, but we’re still just playing in the sterile dirt on Mars.
 
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trouble13 said:
Sorry my mistake you are correct. I remembered it wrong. 0 degrees Fahrenheit is actually about a 50% brine solutions freezing point not seawater. Thank you for the correction and my apologies for telling you you're wrong. I was wrong.

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No problem

I checked only because it did not seem right (not that I knew the exact number)
 
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