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Cuba aims to build socialism, not communism, in draft constitution

j-mac said:
Well, there is no doubt about that....It really astonishes me that the model of the freest, most prosperous, strongest country on earth is right here in their hemisphere and they don't revolt against the boot on their necks....
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Yep, just read your own sig for a good example of why...
 
danarhea said:
Depends on the extent. Republicans decry Socialism, but it is woven into the very fabric of America. Social Security, Medicare, the Interstate Highway system, the Apollo Program that beat the Russians to the moon, are just a few of the programs that the government runs with our tax dollars. Fact is that we have what is called a mixed economy of Capitalism and Socialism. Americans might argue over whether it is balanced too far one way or the other, but at the present time, people are not starving to death, and by the same token, the government is not treating America as an ant farm experiment. What I don't want to see is either..........

1) A new 1890's Guilded Age in which people literally starved, workers died due to poor and dangerous work conditions, only the well off received a basic education, hospitals were a place for the dying to be sent, and the life expectancy for the average American was less than 50 years.

OR

2) Socialism run amok, with the government controlling every aspect of our lives. Ronald Reagan said it best - The scariest words in the world are "This is the government, and we are here to help you".

America works best when there is a balance between the forces of Capitalism and Socialism. Neither force should dominate, but should compliment each other.
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"Depends on the extent."

Everything depends on the “extent”, “balance” and “where you draw the line.” There is no such thing as a pure system. There has never been “pure” communism. Nothing Marx said has ever come true. I suppose Switzerland is the closest to a “pure” or “direct” democracy. They even have opinion polls formalized into the legislative process. Not to say that what you say goes without saying…

“Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.” H. L. Mencken

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” ― Winston S. Churchill

“Democracy is a succession of a failed variety of attempts at governance until one is found that works” - Unknown
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
They can easily maintain power while opening up the country economically. China has done that, Vietnam is in the process of it
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China's Xi is turning to the mafioso model, turning away from Karl Marx, Lenin, and even Mao. Vietnam is trying to do their economic version of Asian Fusion, and it looks temporarily promising given where they started from. But it won't survive when they get beyond their current equivalent of a 19th century European economy with a spattering of high tech thrown in, so they will have to be ready to transition again. I actually look forward to seeing what they come up with.
 
Capitalism has brought millions of people out of poverty over the last few decades. More than all the other "systems" combined. Unbridled though, it can create great poverty. Democracy fits nicely alongside Capitalism, but it isn't the only way. It is, however, the only way to check unbridled Capitalism. China has a communist government and a Capitalist economic system. That's how Cuba might turn out. IMO, likely turn out.
 
Hey...if Obamas actions helps to bring about some form of progress for the Cuban people...good on him. Kudos!
 
Beaudreaux said:
China's Xi is turning to the mafioso model, turning away from Karl Marx, Lenin, and even Mao. Vietnam is trying to do their economic version of Asian Fusion, and it looks temporarily promising given where they started from. But it won't survive when they get beyond their current equivalent of a 19th century European economy with a spattering of high tech thrown in, so they will have to be ready to transition again. I actually look forward to seeing what they come up with.
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China turned away from Mao and full communism back in the early 80s. First allowing farmers to grow and sell food for private sale. Then with SEZ's, to the point now in which is has some of the worlds most valuable "Private" companies in the world. By private I mean not owned or controlled by the state.

Does the Chinese government control and direct the economy to a large degree, certainly but the amount of private business that goes on in China is massive. Only when the investment requirements for a business gets to very high levels does the government tend to get involved (ie auto's, steel plants, railways) etc. China more resembles a fascist state now than a communist one
 
brothern said:
Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...communism-in-draft-constitution-idUSKBN1KB0ML



Thanks Obama.

But, really. Though the Cuban Communist Party's hold is maintained on the state, this is an all around good move for Cuba. The exclusion of Communism from the constitution is a key step towards the recognition and participation of multiple opposition parties within the governance of the country. Who knows--we may even see a Cuban government being led by a non-Communist party within the next decade!
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I'll actually give a little credit here...I am not sure that the Obama administrations policy toward Cuba did anything to promote this, I don't think it hurt to have a little loosening of the stance toward them that his administration did...Hopefully for the people they continue to take steps toward a free society as time goes on.
 
bluesmoke said:
A rose, by any other name, is still a rose. Until they embrace economic capitalism so as to be democratic, they are still what they are. More a socialistic-communist form of government than say a socialistic-democracy.
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Capitalism does not equal democracy. Their have been plenty of capitalist dictatorships.
 
Waddy said:
Capitalism has brought millions of people out of poverty over the last few decades. More than all the other "systems" combined. Unbridled though, it can create great poverty. Democracy fits nicely alongside Capitalism, but it isn't the only way. It is, however, the only way to check unbridled Capitalism. China has a communist government and a Capitalist economic system. That's how Cuba might turn out. IMO, likely turn out.
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Meh. Most large industry in China is state owned. Just because there is wealth in China doesn't mean it is capitalist.
 
Aristaeus said:
Capitalism does not equal democracy. Their have been plenty of capitalist dictatorships.
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Correct. They are just more likely to be together and capitalism to be a route to democracy. There are democratic dictatorships, too. In fact, capitalist dictatorships likely have democratic traits.
 
bluesmoke said:
Correct. They are just more likely to be together and capitalism to be a route to democracy. There are democratic dictatorships, too. In fact, capitalist dictatorships likely have democratic traits.
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You can't have democratic dictatorships, obviously. I'd prefer Cuba to a socialist democracy.
 
Aristaeus said:
You can't have democratic dictatorships, obviously. I'd prefer Cuba to a socialist democracy.
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I already told you that Russia was a regime-controlled state begat by democracy. Putin has absolute power, the definition of a dictator. Yet, he is elected by the people. Duterte is a self-declared dictator of the Philippines, a country that literally duplicated the US constitution as its own. He drafted a new charter giving himself legislative and judicial powers in addition to his existing executive powers. Absolute power. Still, a democracy. Turkey is, technically, a parliamentary democracy. But Erdogan has absolute power. By definition a dictator. Still, a democracy.

If the people choose to have a dictatorship, it's a democratic dictatorship.
 
brothern said:
Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...communism-in-draft-constitution-idUSKBN1KB0ML



Thanks Obama.

But, really. Though the Cuban Communist Party's hold is maintained on the state, this is an all around good move for Cuba. The exclusion of Communism from the constitution is a key step towards the recognition and participation of multiple opposition parties within the governance of the country. Who knows--we may even see a Cuban government being led by a non-Communist party within the next decade!
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Amusing that our old white fart selfrighteous boys are all sucking off Medicare, SS VA benefits
 
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