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With US out, others reaffirm commitment to Iran nuclear deal

upsideguy said:
Trump very much said the NK was no longer a threat.
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I have it on "good authority" that that wasn't the REAL Donald J. Trump, but rather was a paid provocateur in the pay of the "Deep State Left-wing Liberal Socialist Commie International Muslim Conspiracy" who was hired to impersonate Mr. Trump (and the aircraft wasn't real either).

In fact the whole so-called "video clip" was shot on the same sound stage where they filmed the so-called "Moon Landing".
 
their is talk of Trump denying EU access to the US credit system if the EU continues to trade with Iran ... the USA seems to think it's the UN ... if America goes down that route they would be told to remove their bases from the EU .... it would be akin to a declaration of war and push the EU ever closer to Russia and China
 
Godric1970 said:
their is talk of Trump denying EU access to the US credit system if the EU continues to trade with Iran ...
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That, of course, would make it impossible for any EU country to purchase anything from the United States of America.

Of course since no other country makes anything that the US makes that would spell "D O O M" for the Eu.

Godric1970 said:
... the USA seems to think it's the UN ...
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The way that it was originally set up, the US had a "controlling interest" in the UN.

Godric1970 said:
if America goes down that route they would be told to remove their bases from the EU ....
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Possibly, or maybe the EU would just deny the US access to the European credit system and insist that everything that is purchased by any American in Europe be paid for in something other than US$.

Godric1970 said:
... it would be akin to a declaration of war and push the EU ever closer to Russia and China
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Of course, since the US government wouldn't like that the Russians and Chinese would rebuff any such overtures instantly.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Perfect. Iran is contained and the US doesn't have to give up anything.

This could not have worked out better!
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I don't think folks understand how this makes America look not only in the eyes of the Middle East but to the rest of the world. If we renege on our agreement with an enemy nation like Iran, what other deals will we pull away from even with our friends?

Iran's leadership said it clearly that if the other nations managed to stay in the deal then America would be the country that looked inept and untrustworthy. This harms our credibility and costed us an export partner. Remember: Iran was going to purchase commercial planes, airplane parts and various other material goods directly from us. Now, those options are no longer on the table. Thus, an opportunity to forge a closer, long-term relationship with Iran akin to how things once were between us prior to the mid-late 70's is gone. They won't trust us again for another generation and that's not something to applaud about.
 
HowardBThiname said:
That's very difficult when they treat their own citizens so badly, burn American flags and chant "Death to the Americans."

On the positive side, though, is the rising number of protests from their own citizens who would like to overthrow the religious leaders. That would be a beneficial change that might lead the way to trading and peace.
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And had we remained in the deal and leveraged our "honor and trustworthiness", we could have used the Ayatollah and Republican Guard's anti-American fervor against them and rallied Iran's youth moment closer to us. We blew an opportunity to change the course of U.S./Iranian relations for at least another generation all because our President hated his predecessor and couldn't see the bigger picture. Such pettiness...
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Trying to impose modern secular practices in countries with deeply rooted traditions and cultural norms, especially among the rural populations of these countries, is a recipe for disaster if done blindly and too quickly. The reason why the ayatollahs and the Taliban came to Power is because the rural populations of both Iran and Afghanistan saw that Western modernization was a source of instability and corruption, which brought no benefits to them and seemed to be undermining the traditions that they valued. The ayatollahs and Taliban used this to acquire power, they portrayed themselves as the defenders of the age-old traditions of the rural populations of Iran and Afghanistan, they argued that in order to restore Iran and Afghanistan to their former glory, the source of corruption ( the westernized values and modernization of Afghanistan and Iran) had to be removed

So that is the problem
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I want people to read that underlined sentence again only this time consider how that rural population uprising is playing out in the western hemisphere.
 
Objective Voice said:
I don't think folks understand how this makes America look not only in the eyes of the Middle East but to the rest of the world. If we renege on our agreement with an enemy nation like Iran, what other deals will we pull away from even with our friends?
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I think it's more important to put integrity and the needs and desires of our own nation before acting on what others think of us. Obviously, any nation is more likely to renege on a deal with an enemy rather than an ally, so that's not worrisome.

Iran's leadership said it clearly that if the other nations managed to stay in the deal then America would be the country that looked inept and untrustworthy. This harms our credibility and costed us an export partner.
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Iran's "leadership" isn't to be respected. Any nation that treats women as second class citizens and turns a blind eye to homophobic killers isn't to be respected. However, things are heating up in Iran -- the protests are growing larger and more violent. The mullahs will not hold sway forever, and when they're finally booted out -- it will be our pleasure to deal with Iran again. As it was decades ago.

Remember: Iran was going to purchase commercial planes, airplane parts and various other material goods directly from us. Now, those options are no longer on the table. Thus, an opportunity to forge a closer, long-term relationship with Iran akin to how things once were between us prior to the mid-late 70's is gone. They won't trust us again for another generation and that's not something to applaud about.
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We cannot and should not form a closer relationship as long as Iran continues to commit gross human rights violations. What then would be their impetus to change?
 
Objective Voice said:
And had we remained in the deal and leveraged our "honor and trustworthiness", we could have used the Ayatollah and Republican Guard's anti-American fervor against them and rallied Iran's youth moment closer to us. We blew an opportunity to change the course of U.S./Iranian relations for at least another generation all because our President hated his predecessor and couldn't see the bigger picture. Such pettiness...
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Just the opposite is happening. It's because Iran is suffering economic woes that the protests are taking place.
 
Objective Voice said:
I want people to read that underlined sentence again only this time consider how that rural population uprising is playing out in the western hemisphere.
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Would it have something to do with "draining the swamp"?
 
HowardBThiname said:
We cannot and should not form a closer relationship as long as Iran continues to commit gross human rights violations. What then would be their impetus to change?
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Oh PIFFLE!!!!

The US government has NEVER had any real problem with forming close relations with crass, venal, dishonest, murderous, thugs and dictators that oppressed the people of the country they were purporting to govern - just as long as those people were OUR crass, venal, dishonest, murderous, thugs and dictators that oppressed the people of the country they were purporting to govern.

Now, governments that were NOT composed of crass, venal, dishonest, murderous, thugs and dictators that oppressed the people of the country they were purporting to govern which were NOT OUR crass, venal, dishonest, murderous, thugs and dictators that oppressed the people of the country they were purporting to govern, that's a different matter - especially if those people supported THEM.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Oh PIFFLE!!!!

The US government has NEVER had any real problem with forming close relations with crass, venal, dishonest, murderous, thugs and dictators that oppressed the people of the country they were purporting to govern - just as long as those people were OUR crass, venal, dishonest, murderous, thugs and dictators that oppressed the people of the country they were purporting to govern.

Now, governments that were NOT composed of crass, venal, dishonest, murderous, thugs and dictators that oppressed the people of the country they were purporting to govern which were NOT OUR crass, venal, dishonest, murderous, thugs and dictators that oppressed the people of the country they were purporting to govern, that's a different matter - especially if those people supported THEM.
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You make a good point, but still...
 
HowardBThiname said:
You make a good point, but still...
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That what the US government "preaches" and what the US government "practices" can be (at times) diametrically opposite is something that should be taught to every child.

Once the children have learned that the US government is NOT doing what it "preaches" (and since what is "preached" is what they are taught they should support), then possibly the children will grow up to insist that the US government actually do what they are taught to support and what they have been told the US government is doing.

The same applies to the children of EVERY country.
 
upsideguy said:
No evidence of that... plenty of evidence that the US didn't honor its end of the deal.

https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-iaea-compliance-nuclear-deal-naval-propulsion/29057277.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...in-compliance-with-nuclear-deal-idUSKCN1C82GK
Is Iran complying with the nuclear deal? For the most part, yes | PolitiFact Georgia
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You guys are wonderfully adept defenders of Iran, North Korea, illegal immigratants, and MS-13.

Thank you, and please keep it up.
 
Erod said:
You guys are wonderfully adept defenders of Iran, North Korea, illegal immigratants, and MS-13.

Thank you, and please keep it up.
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No, we are adept defenders of diplomacy and American integrity as the conduit to world peace and prosperity. The fact you bring MS-13 to the table as some type of existential threat speaks volumes of where you get your news from. They are not.
 
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