• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump to urge colleges to ignore race in admissions

Oh please, spare us the Captain Renault "I'm shocked! Shocked..." histrionics and cease the issue skirting. To repeat my assertions:

1) "So you have said, but without showing (why) that "anything else" (than academic merit) should be ignored." (unanswered)

2) I said: "Public universities have obligations to provide a reasonable opportunity to all its citizens, not just the gifted and academically talented elite. To that end, my proposed policy is both democratic and inclusive, without needlessly measuring each person by their race (or any other factor). (Perhaps you did not notice I did not include any exceptions, including the ones that vex you)."

Nothing in your reply addresses the obligations of the state provide a reasonable opportunity - not to attend ANY "separate but unequal" education but for a chance to attend the public university of choice if they obtain the minimum requirements for admission. Of course there is some minimum level of cognitive ability and acquired skills to attend U of Michigan, but once that criteria is attained then further selection is not very egalitarian. Hence, as I proposed, all those who apply to U of Michigan who meet the minimum qualification should be pooled and selected by lottery. Further qualification by putting a microscope to the students biography and his/her "suffering" and "challenges" due to race, class, or culture is just another form of discrimination that would not be permitted.

As far as legacy admissions are concerned, of course they would have no place in public institutions, and athletic admissions at least need to be reviewed (it is likely that sports loving Americans would never permit ending athletic admission exceptions).



You might be happy if nothing but "academic merit" the sole form discriminating between college admissions, but up to a certain point I am proposing NO DISCRIMINATION. Public universities are funded not only for individuals, but also for the common welfare. And any person who can utilize and benefit from a public expenditure, the benefits of that expenditure ought to be equally available for anyone who qualifieds. The state has a democratic obligation to allow all citizens equal access to schools, parks, or highways as long as they can successfully benefit the citizens and citizenry.

Hence, minimal academic ability is necessary but, beyond that, a lottery should be held for the limited number of slots. Indeed, "let the chips fall where they may".

Finally, Asians are discriminated against in many elite universities, as more than one study shows - an unfortunate consequence of attempting to filter out and rank students by numerous objective and subjective criteria.

The public higher education system in state after state does provide for everyone capable of higher education. So your entire premise is worthless.
 
With our current system, no. I do think other things should be considered. Such as the applicants monetary situation. Extracurricular activities should also be considered. Basically anything that attests to the applicants character and merit. Skin color does nothing to determine any of that.

If it were up to me though I would completely overhaul our education system. I would do this by studying the top 5 to 10 countries in education. Find out what they are doing that is making them so damn good. Pick the best attributes and modify it enough to make it to where it would work in our culture and implement them.

They education gate is what they do. They mostly only take the top of the classes get into college.
The rest go into skilled labor trades. Those same kids get the free college that everyone talks about.

The system is set so that only the best of the best get to the top.
 
The public higher education system in state after state does provide for everyone capable of higher education. So your entire premise is worthless.


Now you are doing some unartful dodging. The public higher education system in many (or perhaps most) states do not provide "for everyone" capable of higher education at the better or best schools. There is not enough room in, for example, UCLA. Hence there are two choices, either filter out individuals on academic and other achievements beyond that of the minimum OR use a random lottery of the qualified. In a democracy of and for the people, the later is far more equal.


That you are unable to actually address the points previously made, or read them in good faith, disappoints. If you can't, I shall move on to those that can.
 
the only 'melting pot' you see in America is ALL white; nothing else

Progressives on elections:

"If the other candidate wins, I'm going to move to Canada"

Progressives on Health Care:

"Health care is so expensive! We need to learn from countries like the Denmark, which spends less on Health Care as a percentage of GDP"

Progressives on Gun Issues:

"Another mass shooting! When will we learn from what the British? They haven't had a mass shooting since the 90's!"

Progressives on the minimum wage:

"Nobody can afford to feed a family of four on the minimum wage. We need a living wage similar to what Australia has!"

Also Progressives:

"You think Canada, Britian, Denmark and Australia are better countries than Mexico and Venezuela? Racist!"

thanks for letting US know your real colors, which are ALL white ..............

I'm not white.

do you hate Jews too?

No.
 
if you don't see what is happening in this nation, or you are too busy to pay attention, then I don't know what to tell ya ...........

it should be obvious but then, hey ..............

I see the left calling just about everything racist.
 
The part right wingers will never understand is that this isn't a debate between "pay attention to race" and "ignore race."
 
Do you know why I voted for Trump? If not then saying what you said here is worthless.

Doesn't matter, you voted for a guy who's used race and division to vault his way to the presidency.
 
Doesn't matter, you voted for a guy who's used race and division to vault his way to the presidency.

Actually he didn't. He is portrayed that way yes. But he didn't. Those that are against him quite often have taken what he has said out of context to make it seem like he did though.
 
Actually he didn't. He is portrayed that way yes. But he didn't. Those that are against him quite often have taken what he has said out of context to make it seem like he did though.

Oh, he definitely did. And I'm not taking anything he said out of context. You have a right to support the guy because you like his policies, but nothing changes reality of how he got to where he's at today.
 
Oh, he definitely did. And I'm not taking anything he said out of context. You have a right to support the guy because you like his policies, but nothing changes reality of how he got to where he's at today.

Then give an example of how he was racist during the campaign. Put it in full context. (let me guess...you'll pick either his statement about illegal aliens or his ban muslims statement...nothing else)
 
Then give an example of how he was racist during the campaign. Put it in full context. (let me guess...you'll pick either his statement about illegal aliens or his ban muslims statement...nothing else)

Actually, the two things you mentioned are in fact examples of race baiting he used to rile up the GOP base, but I'll point out his birtherism nonsense, or his bogus "black on white crime" tweet he retweeted with phony statistics, that he to this day NEVER apologized for. There's more of course, some of it before he announced he was running for the presidency.
 
Actually, the two things you mentioned are in fact examples of race baiting he used to rile up the GOP base, but I'll point out his birtherism nonsense, or his bogus "black on white crime" tweet he retweeted with phony statistics, that he to this day NEVER apologized for. There's more of course, some of it before he announced he was running for the presidency.

I'll agree on the birtherism nonsense. But that is not racist in itself.

And I never read his tweets if I can help it. Could you give a link to that black on white crime tweet?
 
Oh please, don't deny it. You know damn well what Trump was doing when he became a birther.

I don't presume to know what he was thinking when he became a birther. I've noticed this going on a lot actually. People attributing things to others based on assumptions and based on what they THINK was said.


I tried viewing the original tweet. I don't know Twitter all that well. If someone deletes their tweet is all that is left is who the person tweeted at? And do all the comments remain? I know on facebook if you delete what you say all the comments also get deleted. Don't know about Twitter. Do you know?

Anyways, I couldn't view what that article claims was said by him. Whether because it was deleted or some other type of error I don't know. IF he did say it then yeah, I'd consider it as race baiting.
 
MAWA ......................

Make

America

White

Again ..........

No. What he means is that Race SHOULDN'T matter in admissions. Black, white, asian, doesn't matter. They can get in equally. Quit taking **** out of context.
 
No. What he means is that Race SHOULDN'T matter in admissions. Black, white, asian, doesn't matter. They can get in equally. Quit taking **** out of context.

Pretty sure that when it comes to conservatives that is an impossibility for him.
 
wow...

Judging someone on their achievements and character rather than the pigmentation of their skin?

So that's a revolutionary step forward or is it racist?



Martin Luther King, Jr. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

If people were actually judged on their achievements rather than the colour of their skin, there would have been no need for considering race in the first place.
 
If people were actually judged on their achievements rather than the colour of their skin, there would have been no need for considering race in the first place.
Funny enough other countries do that....

Sendt fra min SM-N9005 med Tapatalk
 
I do hate how it seems these days everyone and their mama asks for race on even the simplest form.

What does it matter?? I always check that I prefer not to answer besides they will get their answer just looking at my name lol.
Your typically assumed to be white when you check that box

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
No. What he means is that Race SHOULDN'T matter in admissions. Black, white, asian, doesn't matter. They can get in equally. Quit taking **** out of context.

It shouldn't, but it does... in favour of white people. Which is why things like diversity schemes and affirmative action happens.
 
Now you are doing some unartful dodging. The public higher education system in many (or perhaps most) states do not provide "for everyone" capable of higher education at the better or best schools. There is not enough room in, for example, UCLA.

The State of California has an extensive system of universities and colleges and other institutions of higher education to meet the needs of citizens and others capable of higher education. They also have an extensive community college system for people who may not be able to get into a full college.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_University

and this for even more

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_California

and this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Community_Colleges_System

If you claim otherwise, give us your evidence.

It is silly to claim that there is not enough room for everyone at UCLA since that was never the intent of any on specific school or college.
 
Last edited:
only if they start equally. If somebody starts the race at the fifty yard line and the other person starts in the end zone, guess who has the advantage?

I taught in the inner city of Detroit for over 33 years. Please enlighten me on what these solutions are?

So start them equally. pretty easy.

Solutions? Smaller class sizes, better educated teachers, increased support for higher education at the state and federal level to make college virtually free for qualified students (as it was when my parents went to school). Less standardized testing.
 
So start them equally. pretty easy.

Solutions? Smaller class sizes, better educated teachers, increased support for higher education at the state and federal level to make college virtually free for qualified students (as it was when my parents went to school). Less standardized testing.

No child starts equally. That is just the nature of reality.

My solution for education based on over 33 years doing it is simple: get rid of the assembly line and adopt a simply rule where everybody on the first day learns one plus one is two. Those who demonstrate mastery of that concept, they all move on to the next lesson. Those who do not , will go to another teacher who will use different methods until they do master it.

Now do that for everything we teach and learn in schools.

Some kids will finish a 12 year curriculum in eight or nine years and some in 15 or 16 years and lots of others in between. But they will all learn unlike today where failure to learn a lesson is accepted and promotion rewarded.
 
I don't presume to know what he was thinking when he became a birther. I've noticed this going on a lot actually. People attributing things to others based on assumptions and based on what they THINK was said.

Ok man, believe what you want. I think it's clear what Trump was doing when he jumped on the birther bandwagon, and I also think it's clear who he was attempting to pander to when he did it. But if pretending otherwise makes you feel better about your parties leader, so be it.


I tried viewing the original tweet. I don't know Twitter all that well. If someone deletes their tweet is all that is left is who the person tweeted at? And do all the comments remain? I know on facebook if you delete what you say all the comments also get deleted. Don't know about Twitter. Do you know?

Anyways, I couldn't view what that article claims was said by him. Whether because it was deleted or some other type of error I don't know. IF he did say it then yeah, I'd consider it as race baiting.


Oh, he tweeted it. And yes he deleted the tweet. He's deleted many tweets when he realized it made him look like an ass. Of course, he NEVER apologizes for it, even when he spreads false information which could potentially lead to violence.
 
Back
Top Bottom