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Former Trump operative Roger Stone met with Russian who wanted $2M for Clinton dirt

MovingPictures said:
FEC law prohibits "anything of value" from being taken from a foreign national, or any services being provided by that foreign national.

Though it would be up to Mueller as to whether this case warrants prosecution.
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But Steele can be paid just fine.
 
Lutherf said:
I'm completely lost here. Based on what I read, the Greenberg guy, who did, at one point, work with the FBI, approached Caputo through a mutual acquaintance. Greenberg offered to sell "dirt" on Clinton and Stone declined the offer. Therefore, and here's what confuses me, we have further evidence that Trump was working with Putin to win the election. How does that work?

If someone is introduced to me through a friend and offers to sell me dirt on a business competitor and I refuse the deal then how the hell am I guilty of anything?
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I think the claim is that there is smoke, and where there is smoke there must be a fire.
 
Lutherf said:
I'm completely lost here. Based on what I read, the Greenberg guy, who did, at one point, work with the FBI, approached Caputo through a mutual acquaintance. Greenberg offered to sell "dirt" on Clinton and Stone declined the offer. Therefore, and here's what confuses me, we have further evidence that Trump was working with Putin to win the election. How does that work?

If someone is introduced to me through a friend and offers to sell me dirt on a business competitor and I refuse the deal then how the hell am I guilty of anything?
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Stop Lutherf, logic is not a left of center virtue, I believe it causes them migraines.
 
MovingPictures said:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/17/politics/roger-stone-henry-greenberg-michael-caputo/index.html




So, this meeting (which is even worse than the Trump Tower meeting), was not disclosed in Stone's sworn testimony before Congress, which means that Stone can be cited for perjury and obstruction if that can be established.

Interesting what Trump campaign members "forget" and then remember again, after their sworn testimony is behind them.:roll:

This sure sounds like criminal conspiracy at this point, but that's my take.
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Sounds like he could be charged with contempt of congress... but.... with this congress? :lol:
 
hanger4 said:
The DNC/Clinton Campaign paid for information from foreign nationals. They paid for that "thing of value".
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Not even remotely comparable. The DNC contracted a US company to obtain opposition research. That company hired one of the world's foremost experts on the politics os Russia. He obtained information from his previous contacts, who were not senior officials in the Russian government.

There is NO relationship in that arrangement between senior members of the Clinton campaign and officials of the Russian government. There is no evidence that that senior members of the Russian government ever met with senior members of the Clinton campaign team to offer information. The former is SOP; the later, which is what likely happened with Trump, is a crime.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Steele was a paid contractor for Fusion Gp. He was not working directly for Clinton
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That is my point, this is all about technicalities, not justice, not principles.

Our justice system is crap.

We need to care.
 
haymarket said:
On what date did Stone alert the FBI or some other authorities to this offer from the Russians?
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What offer from the Russians? Since when did some dude named Henry Greenberg become "the Russians"?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Steele was a paid contractor for Fusion Gp. He was not working directly for Clinton
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Hmm... seeking dirt on your political opposition from foreign nationals is OK so long as you contract it out - look it up.
 
upsideguy said:
Not even remotely comparable. The DNC contracted a US company to obtain opposition research. That company hired one of the world's foremost experts on the politics os Russia. He obtained information from his previous contacts, who were not senior officials in the Russian government.

There is NO relationship in that arrangement between senior members of the Clinton campaign and officials of the Russian government. There is no evidence that that senior members of the Russian government ever met with senior members of the Clinton campaign team to offer information. The former is SOP; the later, which is what likely happened with Trump, is a crime.
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That US company hired Christopher Steele, a foreign national. The DNC/Clinton Campaign paid, "indirectly", a foreign national for a "thing of value". Totally legal I might add.
 
MovingPictures said:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/17/politics/roger-stone-henry-greenberg-michael-caputo/index.html

So, this meeting (which is even worse than the Trump Tower meeting), was not disclosed in Stone's sworn testimony before Congress, which means that Stone can be cited for perjury and obstruction if that can be established.

Interesting what Trump campaign members "forget" and then remember again, after their sworn testimony is behind them.:roll:

This sure sounds like criminal conspiracy at this point, but that's my take.
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But Trump said nobody on his campaign met with Russians. I think it would be hard to find any that didn’t meet with Russians.

People who still say there was no collusion are working incredibly hard to ignore the growing amounts of extremely strong circumstantial evidence to the contrary. And this is what we know about. Mueller may have file cabinets full of evidence we don’t know about.
 
MovingPictures said:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/17/politics/roger-stone-henry-greenberg-michael-caputo/index.html




So, this meeting (which is even worse than the Trump Tower meeting), was not disclosed in Stone's sworn testimony before Congress, which means that Stone can be cited for perjury and obstruction if that can be established.

Interesting what Trump campaign members "forget" and then remember again, after their sworn testimony is behind them.:roll:

This sure sounds like criminal conspiracy at this point, but that's my take.
Click to expand...

Unless Stone did pay two mil. for oppositional research, the only thing he could be charged with is perjury. Not sure how you arrived at your conclusion, criminal conspiracy.
 
MovingPictures said:
FEC law prohibits "anything of value" from being taken from a foreign national, or any services being provided by that foreign national.

Though it would be up to Mueller as to whether this case warrants prosecution.
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It doesn't say anything about BUYING information.
 
Lutherf said:
I'm completely lost here. Based on what I read, the Greenberg guy, who did, at one point, work with the FBI, approached Caputo through a mutual acquaintance. Greenberg offered to sell "dirt" on Clinton and Stone declined the offer. Therefore, and here's what confuses me, we have further evidence that Trump was working with Putin to win the election. How does that work?

If someone is introduced to me through a friend and offers to sell me dirt on a business competitor and I refuse the deal then how the hell am I guilty of anything?
Click to expand...

The Liberals are brainwashed...lol
 
upsideguy said:
Funny how you still don't seem to grasp how these things are not even remotely comparable. Clinton did not buy dirt from Russians. If you believe otherwise, kindly tell us the name of the Russian that met with Clinton or any of her senior campaign aides. Names please.
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An American corporation bought the info from a foreigner. Then sold it to Clinton. Same thing here, almost.

Are you saying that BUYING information is a crime, now? :lamo
 
hanger4 said:
That US company hired Christopher Steele, a foreign national. The DNC/Clinton Campaign paid, "indirectly", a foreign national for a "thing of value". Totally legal I might add.
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The form of a transaction can sometimes mean everything. It would be difficult to show that the head of the campaign knew the exact structure of how the information was obtained. Moreover, all aspects of this transaction appear to be at arm's length.... it was fair dollars paid for specific research with an unknown outcome of that research. This stands in stark contrast to senior Trump officials taking "dirt" for likely political favor. The former is SOP; the latter is corruption.

The problem we now have is we do not know what, if any transactions, occurred between the Trump campaign and officials of the Russian government. We do not know what promises were made or what value was received. This is why we have Mueller. Again, in contrast, the Steele Dossier appears to be a known commodity, with the give and get both known.

apdst said:
Irrelevant.
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Actually, as per above, absolutely relevant, if not essential.
 
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upsideguy said:
The form of a transaction can sometimes mean everything. It would be difficult to show that the head of the campaign knew the exact structure of how the information was obtained. Moreover, all aspects of this transaction appear to be at arm's length.... it was fair dollars paid for specific research with an unknown outcome of that research. This stands in stark contrast to senior Trump officials taking "dirt" for likely political favor. The former is SOP; the latter is corruption.
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Are you saying that the transaction between the Clinton campaign and Fusion was illegal?
 
MovingPictures said:
FEC law prohibits "anything of value" from being taken from a foreign national, or any services being provided by that foreign national.
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Which FEC law would that be?
 
MovingPictures said:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/17/politics/roger-stone-henry-greenberg-michael-caputo/index.html

So, this meeting (which is even worse than the Trump Tower meeting), was not disclosed in Stone's sworn testimony before Congress, which means that Stone can be cited for perjury and obstruction if that can be established.

Interesting what Trump campaign members "forget" and then remember again, after their sworn testimony is behind them.:roll:

This sure sounds like criminal conspiracy at this point, but that's my take.
Click to expand...

I don't care or need to engage in the rhetoric of relative privation; however, the surfeit of curiously selective memories, flat-out lies, and material ellisions among the people in Trump's orbit, and Trump himself, transcends anything I've experienced in some forty years of interactions with myriad Fortune 200 (or similar) professionals and "regular" people from over a dozen different countries.
  • Jeff Sessions:
    • Senate testimony -- confirmation hearing: "I didn't have — did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it."
      • Um, yes, Jeff, you did.
    • Senate testimony -- Russia invest.:"I have never met with or had any conversation with any Russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election in the United States. Further, I have no knowledge of any such conversations by anyone connected to the Trump campaign."
      • Astute readers will mark the second attestation's far more limiting language:
        • "Communications" --> "conversation(s)": Written exchanges?
        • "With any Russians or any foreign officials" -->
          • Might there have been an American or other non-Russian conduit with whom he communicated?
          • Might there have been a conduit who is not an official of a foreign government?
          • George P. was certainly attempting to act as a conduit. So was Donald, Jr.'s friend who facilitated the Trump Tower meeting. Were there others acting in that capacity? I don't know.
        • "Concerning interference with [two specific things]"
        • "In the United States"
        • "have no knowledge" -- I suspect Sessions used this syntax for preemptive purposes for the phrasing he used has real legal meaning and purpose if ever arose the need for Sessions to defend himself in connection with his testimony or the Russia matter. In the law, the part of the nature and extent of criminal (and civil) culpability accrues from the nature of what one knew or could reasonably have been expected to know. To the existential nature and extent of one's knowledge about a given crime remains, in the minds of a judge, prosecutor and/or jury, debatable to dubious, one's culpability stays out of the realm of "purposeful" to "reckless." For certain offenses, that can make the difference in whether with a crime one is charged or not, or with what crime one be charged.
      • Very thin is the line of truth traced by this second statement.
  • Donald, Jr.
    • Claimed the Trump Tower meeting was to discuss adoptions. It may be that they did discuss adoptions (or possibly "adoptions"), but the meeting's etiology derived from the Trump campaign team's desired to obtain dirt on Clinton, which itself isn't a problem....It's what they did with whatever "411" they obtained and how Russian actors/agents/cutouts featured in the use of any "dirt" obtained as well as any Trump-advancing political activities that may have been proposed among the Trump people and the Russians present.
      • I guess he forgot that adoptions really weren't at the time featuring high on anyone's list of priorities.
  • J. Kushner
    • How much stuff did he omit from his SF-86 form? How often did he "forget" to include required information? How many inaccuracies did the form contain?
  • Flynn
    • "Forgot" to declare his status as a lobbyist for a foreign nation -- He got paid, but I guess he forgot.
    • Section 1001 violations -- Did he "forget" that he had previously attested to/written things contrary to what he told investigators? I guess so...
  • Manafort
    • "Forgot" to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts
    • "Forgot" to register as an agent of a foreign principal
Quite literally, the closest I've encountered forgetfulness that even remotely impends to verisimilitude with Trump-connected people is Momma's dementia-addled mind, toddlers and pre-teens. The thing is that with dementia sufferers and young children, they actually do forget the lies they told, which is precisely why they get caught, so to speak. (Though in Momma's case, she at least can't really help herself.)
 
apdst said:
Are you saying that the transaction between the Clinton campaign and Fusion was illegal?
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I am not sure where you got that. The "former" was the Clinton hiring Fusion to do oppo research with an unknown outcome. That is usually and customary. The "latter" was the Trump campaign taking a meeting to get info for which the "give" was unknown. That was highly unusual, unethical, and maybe illegal.
 
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