Trump-Kim summit: Trump says U.S. will end its ‘war games’ with South Korea

danarhea said:

No, it's not sanctions he cancelled. It was the joint military exercises we have been doing with SK since the armistice. Trump just gave that away. I'm thinking his Russian handlers are behind that move.

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Military exercises can be restarted at any time.

And if you';d read the news once in a while, you'd know that everytime we held an exercise with SK, Kimmy got his knickers twisted in a knot and called it an act of war.

Trump was right when he said they were "provocative" and provocative is not what one needs when trying to make a peace deal.

Get a clue, people!

Conservative said:

I know that as an Englishman that nothing Trump can do positively will be recognized by you and the rest of the "slightly liberal" other posters here. I will continue to recognize and celebrate success and point out exactly where you are wrong in your assessment of Hillary and Obama but then again actual results don't resonate with you. You are too focused on personalities

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I might live in England, but I'm not an Englishman. The rest of your assumptions are no more accurate or credible.

Manc Skipper said:

I might live in England, but I'm not an Englishman. The rest of your assumptions are no more accurate or credible.

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Ok, again your opinion but you really have no understanding of US economics or civics plus the inability to actually research to verify what you are told. The economic data I post is verifiable and official, not opinions, and the foreign policy successes such as defense of the Red Line put some credibility into our foreign policy something lost the last 8 years.

Manc Skipper said:

I might live in England, but I'm not an Englishman. The rest of your assumptions are no more accurate or credible.

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Are you an American werewolf in London (or New India/New Pakistan) like me?

Conservative said:

It would be very simple to get me to stop posting "leftwing bull****" by actually posting the official data to refute what I have given you but you have yet to do that...

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Everyone has done that. And in reply you merely accuse them of not understanding economy or civics and repeat the same old select figures that come without a historical context so that you can continue the struggle of pretending that history began only in January 2017.

You have proven consistently that you aren't worth the effort anymore. And why aren't you worth it?...

Conservative said:

...the leftwing narrative..."the radical wing of today's Democratic party"..." ..."the leftwing spin..."

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...that's why. No matter how hard you try to define yourself as caring only about results, you are an obvious partisan hack. Sort of like Fox News trying to define itself as "fair and balanced." It's a joke.

Conservative said:

Ok, again your opinion but you really have no understanding of US economics or civics plus the inability to actually research to verify what you are told. The economic data I post is verifiable and official, not opinions, and the foreign policy successes such as defense of the Red Line put some credibility into our foreign policy something lost the last 8 years.

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...and now, aside from pretending that you alone understand economy and civics while insisting that its everybody else who abandons context, you wish to pass yourself off as having even a passing knowledge or understanding of Foreign Policy? Good god.

First off, Trump's National Security Strategy (and I believe I have already provided you a link) is in its infancy. It can not really be judged for its enduring effects. Calling it a "success" is just more of the same nowist Trump-worship crap you do when it comes to anything Trump related. Living in the moment is exactly why you can't see the seeds of disaster in the economy that Trump has contributed towards.

Second, the intent of Obama's "wait-and-see" Policy was to do exactly what so many Conservatives have argued for since deciding to kneel before Trump. It was an attempt to push greater responsibility upon our allies, in a world where we simply can no longer sustain a monopoly, and make them take more of the lead (in appearance), thus removing ourselves from the continual burden of blame. Like the past, his official Policy assured the support of our allies. However, his Policy was inconsistent. Because of his "wait-and-see" theme, it was applied haphazardly and dealt with issues separately as they were presented. Each deserved a different response, which is dangerous and hypocritical. For example, he attacked Libya's dictator behind the guise of French leadership, but withered against Syria's dictator when it got complicated. At least the hypocrisy of the Cold War Policies were consistent. Obama sucked when it came to understanding what was going on in the Middle East and how to attack it. He relied too much on realpolitik and less ideology. He, like so many Conservatives and Liberals, was sadly and typically clueless.

Trump's written Policy (National Security Strategy) merely regurgitated Obama's policy, but added a pinch of asshole and confusion to it. He too has been playing a "wait-and-see" game, but seems to be more interested in rolling dice in order to please a local constituency's ignorance. Like Obama and the past Presidents, Trump made it a point to commit to supporting allies. But his "America First" theme in the document also leaves questions. Contrary to Obama's National Strategy, Trump has made it a theme to attack allies at the national government and international level. He has actively betrayed the trust of our Allies. One can argue that his embassy move to Jerusalem was a matter of mere damage control against accusations that he might not support Israel as his most hardened admirers in America want. His "America First," which is salted into his National Security Strategy, also tends to place the rest of the world at a distance, thereby opening the door for rising economies to make room and other powers to take moral leads. We hear a lot about Putin and China these days don't we? Stop wondering why. Trump also leaves our diplomats and allies guessing about our reliability and intentions because his personal rhetoric often contradicts what is written in his Policy. This is unlike all of our former Presidents, who were routinely consistent when it came to complimenting their Policies with their speeches. In one Tweet, Trump manages to negate huge chunks of his Policy document in the eyes of the world, which makes us tremendously unpredictable and unreliable. The average Trump fan will shrug this off as something "cool" as if in some sort defiance, but it is very stupid.

So, calling Trump's National Security Strategy a success, a mere six months after being documented, means that you really don't have a clue about what you speak. Your enthusiasm to praise anything Trump is very obvious...again.

Third, I'm really smart. Worship me, not Trump.

MSgt said:

Everyone has done that. And in reply you merely accuse them of not understanding economy or civics and repeat the same old select figures that come without a historical context so that you can continue the struggle of pretending that history began only in January 2017.

You have proven consistently that you aren't worth the effort anymore. And why aren't you worth it?...



...that's why. No matter how hard you try to define yourself as caring only about results, you are an obvious partisan hack. Sort of like Fox News trying to define itself as "fair and balanced." It's a joke.

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Only in your dreams, you made the charge now post the data to support it, I HAVE!! the joke is on the radical left who are so arrogant that they believe they are right on every issue. You aren't even close to being right but you are close to being part of that radical group

Conservative said:

Only in your dreams, you made the charge now post the data to support it, I HAVE!! the joke is on the radical left who are so arrogant that they believe they are right on every issue. You aren't even close to being right but you are close to being part of that radical group

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Again? Been there, done that with you more than a couple times. It's pointless. That which does not glorify Trump/GOP gets discarded. You have proven enough that you don't care about what the GOP did to instigate the Great Recession and that you wish history to have simply began anew the moment Trump inherited the upswing in the global economy before he took office. Anything in between you shrug of as Obama not waving a magic wand to fix the global economy in 2010. You have even gone as far as to declare that the Great Recession wasn't so bad and that Clinton's economic history isn't true. This....from a guy who wants others to believe that he only cares about "results" and that he isn't just a mouthpiece to regurgitate Fox News soundbites?

I notice that you are getting a lot of this from people of the left, independent, and unaffiliated persuasion. Does it not say something that like-minded conservatives appear to be your only comfort? Perhaps you would be able to actually have discussions with people were you not so obviously a partisan disciple who seeks to glorify Trump at any expense and for the sun rising every morning. It's somewhat hard to accuse others of believing that they are right on every issue, when it is you who constantly accuses them of not knowing a thing about economy, civics, and foreign policy, no?

And arrogant? Yes, yes I am.

MSgt said:

Again? Been there, done that with you more than a couple times. It's pointless. That which does not glorify Trump/GOP gets discarded. You have proven enough that you don't care about what the GOP did to instigate the Great Recession and that you wish history to have simply began anew the moment Trump inherited the upswing in the global economy before he took office. Anything in between you shrug of as Obama not waving a magic wand to fix the global economy in 2010. You have even gone as far as to declare that the Great Recession wasn't so bad and that Clinton's economic history isn't true. This....from a guy who wants others to believe that he only cares about "results" and that he isn't just a mouthpiece to regurgitate Fox News soundbites?

I notice that you are getting a lot of this from people of the left, independent, and unaffiliated persuasion. Does it not say something that like-minded conservatives appear to be your only comfort? Perhaps you would be able to actually have discussions with people were you not so obviously a partisan disciple who seeks to glorify Trump at any expense and for the sun rising every morning. It's somewhat hard to accuse others of believing that they are right on every issue, when it is you who constantly accuses them of not knowing a thing about economy, civics, and foreign policy, no?

And arrogant? Yes, yes I am.

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Again, don't see a lot of people on the left ever posting official data but like you posting media reports and leftwing spin none of which affect the finances of the US. You make some wild accusations but never post data supporting it which is why you have zero credibility and why the left is losing support. People simply aren't feeling the "Trump Hurt" being claimed here, are now working, and now have more spendable income. The radical left has come unhinged and continues to make things up to continue to promote whatever their agenda is. You have offered nothing but opinions.

I do suggest a civics class so you understand the three EQUAL branches of Govt. along with someone to teach you how to research the official ACTUAL data so you stop buying PREDICTIONS and leftwing rhetoric. Arrogant? Yes but even more WRONG!!

Interesting how Democrats controlled the Congress from 2007 to 2011, passed the Obama stimulus almost day one, was party to the recession creating nothing to prevent it but instead getting people like you to blame Bush. Totally civics challenged poorly informed and educated leftists

Conservative said:

Again, don't see a lot of people on the left ever posting official data...

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Well, that's just lying. There was a time you went back and forth with people and argued over the same damn graphs from the same damn sites! You always simply defaulted to the same old select graphs that painted only a particular picture while accusing all of them of not understanding context. And not understanding economy. And not understanding civics. And so on. Gets old. Your "official" data has always been without the context.

Your "official" data arguments come down to arguing that Trump's magical 2017 is why Trump is the great savior of our time and that Obama's miserable 2010 is why he is the economic demon of our time. Of course, you love to skip over 2016 as a year that simply doesn't exist. Your "official" numbers do provide a 2016, but too inconvenient to acknowledge, right? The national and global economy doesn't start and stop on an American election. But conservatives love to simplify matters into a space that they can understand or place on a bumper sticker.

MSgt said:

Well, that's just lying. There was a time you went back and forth with people and argued over the same damn graphs from the same damn sites! You always simply defaulted to the same old select graphs that painted only a particular picture while accusing all of them of not understanding context. And not understanding economy. And not understanding civics. And so on. Gets old. Your "official" data has always been without the context.

Your "official" data arguments come down to arguing that Trump's magical 2017 is why Trump is the great savior of our time and that Obama's miserable 2010 is why he is the economic demon of our time. Of course, you love to skip over 2016 as a year that simply doesn't exist. Your "official" numbers do provide a 2016, but too inconvenient to acknowledge, right? The national and global economy doesn't start and stop on an American election. But conservatives love to simplify matters into a space that they can understand or place on a bumper sticker.

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Look, I don't know what your problem is and why you cannot get it through your head that the numbers I Post are easily verifiable and come from the OFFICIAL SITES for the US Govt. BLS is Bureau of Labor Statistics, BEA is from Treasury and shows GDP as well as income and receipts by line item, and Treasury Direct shows deficit and debt by day. You may not like those sites but that is where the official numbers are housed and the Treasury data creating debt service that the taxpayers pay.

What you have seen posted has been refuted for being out of context or by picking and choosing the wrong date for comparisons. Presidents are judged from Day 1 in taking office or January 21 and in the case of Obama he had a Democratic Congress and his stimulus was almost day 1 and signed mid February. No other President had that luxury except for Trump now. That is reality so what is your beef?

Whether you like it or not, the numbers Trump inherited were posted and ignored. 2016 the GDP growth was 1.5%, no year during the Obama term exceeded 3% and coming off what you called the worst recession in history is a disaster. Reagan generated over 7% after the previous year was a negative. Obama didn't come close. Obama left us with a 9.4% U-6 rate and when the recession began in December 2007 it was 9.2% so 8 years later and at a cost of 9.3 trillion added to the debt the U-6 went up. It is 7.6% today. When Trump took office the debt was 20 trillion dollars and it was the Obama budget until the end of September 2017. We are into the first year of the Trump budget and full spending authority. the fiscal year of the US runs from October to September.

Now prove me wrong or apologize, getting tired of teaching you liberals basic civics and economics plus where to go for actual fiscal data. We are so different from the Global economy as evidenced by the components of GDP here vs. the world and the percentage each contributes. Why don't you find out what the world relies an and thus us and see why you are wrong in your analysis?

Conservative said:

Look, I don't know what your problem is and why you cannot get it through your head that the numbers I Post are....

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"Factoids."

Your numbers on Obama are presented as if he destroyed the economy (not the GOP) and was in a position to unilaterally correct the European, Asian, and European markets. Was U.S. trade supposed to get healthy again with bad Asian and European markets? After all the markets began to correct, all became more healthy. But not until early 2016, well before Trump.

Your numbers on Trump are presented as if his numbers would have existed in 2010 and not as if he walked into the back end of a years-long global struggle to get the economy healthy. It's the same as the lot of you do with IS. You don't care about the four years of international intense fighting, just the three months of the back end when Trump walked into the White House to take the credit. But that's exactly what partisan hacks do, isn't it? And here we are again with the GOP laying the economic seeds for the next recession in which the average taxpayer (those whose tax cuts are set to expire) will feel it. And all you can do is live in the moment. You are like the surfer without a care that the wave is about to hit the coral.

History is not about facts or factoids. History is about the context of those facts. And this is why I get a kick out of you accusing others of not understanding context as you cater solely to specific factoids to define the context instead of actually understanding the context to place the factoids into proper perspective.

MSgt said:

"Factoids."

Your numbers on Obama are presented as if he destroyed the economy (not the GOP) and was in a position to unilaterally correct the European, Asian, and European markets. Was U.S. trade supposed to get healthy again with bad Asian and European markets? After all the markets began to correct, all became more healthy. But not until early 2016, well before Trump.

Your numbers on Trump are presented as if his numbers would have existed in 2010 and not as if he walked into the back end of a years-long global struggle to get the economy healthy. It's the same as the lot of you do with IS. You don't care about the four years of international intense fighting, just the three months of the back end when Trump walked into the White House to take the credit. But that's exactly what partisan hacks do, isn't it? And here we are again with the GOP laying the economic seeds for the next recession in which the average taxpayer (those whose tax cuts are set to expire) will feel it. And all you can do is live in the moment. You are like the surfer without a care that the wave is about to hit the coral.

History is not about facts or factoids. History is about the context of those facts. And this is why I get a kick out of you accusing others of not understanding context as you cater solely to specific factoids to define the context instead of actually understanding the context to place the factoids into proper perspective.

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Europe destroyed itself without the help of anyone in this country but you are too blind to see that reality. Please educate yourself on the components of GDP and you will then understand the difference between Europe and the US and why Europe recovered so much slower and why European economic model is a failure.

I am still waiting for you to back up your claims with the official data. I gave you the links, even posted the data but still you don't get it. What is it about the arrogance of the liberal elites that cannot accept actual data and results? Context of facts?? OFFER SOME because you certainly haven't. I gave you the official data which again you continue to ignore

Conservative said:

Europe destroyed itself without the help of anyone in this country but you are too blind to see that reality. Please educate yourself on the components of GDP and you will then understand the difference between Europe and the US and why Europe recovered so much slower and why European economic model is a failure.

I am still waiting for you to back up your claims with the official data. I gave you the links, even posted the data but still you don't get it. What is it about the arrogance of the liberal elites that cannot accept actual data and results? Context of facts?? OFFER SOME because you certainly haven't. I gave you the official data which again you continue to ignore

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Why are you waiting? You are waiting for something you have been given over and over by far too many people. Notice that nobody else even cares to talk to you anymore. They too, are done shoving numbers in your face, with the context, only to suffer through your denials of the contexts so that you can pretend that only magical 2017 numbers matter. Funny how these numbers are supposed to have come from nowhere, huh? Acknowledging Obama's play in this, would go against the Fox News grain. Therefore, like denying science and praising tomato paste as a vegetable, we err on the side of acting foolish. And telling people to "educate themselves" is exactly the sort of thing that makes your uneducated kind boring. You are a broken record. Because of this zeal to ignore what anybody tells you, you fail once again to get the very, very simple point I presented you. Again...

It doesn't matter why the European and Asian markets were wrecked, though like the Great Depression, it started with our irresponsibility. They certainly did not destroy themselves. What matters is that all markets are tied into a global economy and the global economy's health relies upon the health of individual markets. This is the system we expressly created after World War II. For example, in order to stave off global economic recession in 1999, Clinton attacked the ailing Asian Markets with a "bail out." The Asian markets threatened to affect the rest. And here you pretend that the American market didn't wreck the rest in 2007-08; and that the health of the rest didn't matter to our recovery? THIS is the reality and THIS is why it took years to recover. THIS is what context is.

But when that recovery was occurring in early 2016, you and your kind were too busy whining about Clinton and kissing Trump's ass to care. And after he entered office in January 2017 you immediately wished to shove everything at Trump's feet. All of a sudden, you cared about the data? All of a sudden the local economy magically improved? All of a sudden the Great Recession wasn't really that bad? Your factoids are very clear about this recovery effort, but you lack absolute context or even a care beyond worshiping the moron in Office to see it clearly.

With this, I think we are way off topic. Perhaps we can "not" continue this crap someplace else.

MSgt said:

Why are you waiting? You are waiting for something you have been given over and over by far too many people. Notice that nobody else even cares to talk to you anymore. They too, are done shoving numbers in your face, with the context, only to suffer through your denials of the contexts so that you can pretend that only magical 2017 numbers matter. Funny how these numbers are supposed to have come from nowhere, huh? Acknowledging Obama's play in this, would go against the Fox News grain. Therefore, like denying science and praising tomato paste as a vegetable, we err on the side of acting foolish. And telling people to "educate themselves" is exactly the sort of thing that makes your uneducated kind boring. You are a broken record. Because of this zeal to ignore what anybody tells you, you fail once again to get the very, very simple point I presented you. Again...

It doesn't matter why the European and Asian markets were wrecked, though like the Great Depression, it started with our irresponsibility. They certainly did not destroy themselves. What matters is that all markets are tied into a global economy and the global economy's health relies upon the health of individual markets. This is the system we expressly created after World War II. For example, in order to stave off global economic recession in 1999, Clinton attacked the ailing Asian Markets with a "bail out." The Asian markets threatened to affect the rest. And here you pretend that the American market didn't wreck the rest in 2007-08; and that the health of the rest didn't matter to our recovery? THIS is the reality and THIS is why it took years to recover. THIS is what context is.

But when that recovery was occurring in early 2016, you and your kind were too busy whining about Clinton and kissing Trump's ass to care. And after he entered office in January 2017 you immediately wished to shove everything at Trump's feet. All of a sudden, you cared about the data? All of a sudden the local economy magically improved? All of a sudden the Great Recession wasn't really that bad? Your factoids are very clear about this recovery effort, but you lack absolute context or even a care beyond worshiping the moron in Office to see it clearly.

With this, I think we are way off topic. Perhaps we can "not" continue this crap someplace else.

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Another novel expressing your opinion without giving any data The quickest way to shut up a liberal is to confuse them with data and destroy their argument with it. Fact, BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and Treasury.org data has NEVER been refuted here and the fact that you have offered nothing other than an opinion speaks volumes about you and your ideology. Crap to a liberal is data that destroys their rhetoric and I have virtually destroyed yours. Now either prove me wrong or apologize.

The rest of your novel is irrelevant and yes is off topic but I will continue to refute you and any other radical here who spouts the lies about the so called Great Recession that affected fewer Americans than any other recession in history but was a marketing term penned by the radical leftwing socialists that seems to have worked and made people like you promote it, market it, and then lie about the actual data and results.

Conservative said:

Another novel expressing your opinion without giving any data The quickest way to shut up a liberal is to confuse them with data and destroy their argument with it. Fact, BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and Treasury.org data has NEVER been refuted here and the fact that you have offered nothing other than an opinion speaks volumes about you and your ideology. Crap to a liberal is data that destroys their rhetoric and I have virtually destroyed yours. Now either prove me wrong or apologize.

The rest of your novel is irrelevant and yes is off topic but I will continue to refute you and any other radical here who spouts the lies about the so called Great Recession that affected fewer Americans than any other recession in history but was a marketing term penned by the radical left wing socialists that seems to have worked and made people like you promote it, market it, and then lie about the actual data and results.

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Nah, I, like everybody else, have long been done with data where you are involved. It's like talking to a brick wall where Trump's picture is proudly displayed in the center. Since the numbers used all come from the same places, you shut nobody up. They all just dismiss your partisanship, roll their eyes, and realize how pointless it is to discuss anything with you. It's why you appear very desperate to have the same old discussions over and over so that you can glorify in 2017 numbers with absolutely no acknowledgement of the obvious 2016 numbers or the historical context since 2007-08. Instead you favor Trumps magic wand that, apparently, got waved about in January 2017, which simply fixed the economy, simply fixed IS after a few months, and now, simply brings global peace by stopping a nuclear holocaust that wasn't coming. Oh, and also pretending that the U.S. is somehow absolutely disconnected from the market systems in the world that dragged on our recovery efforts. All to the glory of Trump; and that is the only personal "result" you are interested in.

It is quite boring discussing sports with a person who's entire being consists of only seeking ways to glorify his team while ignoring the existence of other teams that make it a sport. Unlike the others, however, I won't give up on you. Perhaps finally we might one day have a descent conversation. One only needs to step back and start seeing the world without the partisan lens of intellectual restriction.

MSgt said:

Nah, I, like everybody else, have long been done with data where you are involved. It's like talking to a brick wall where Trump's picture is proudly displayed in the center. Since the numbers used all come from the same places, you shut nobody up. They all just dismiss your partisanship, roll their eyes, and realize how pointless it is to discuss anything with you. It's why you appear very desperate to have the same old discussions over and over so that you can glorify in 2017 numbers with absolutely no acknowledgement of the obvious 2016 numbers or the historical context since 2007-08. Instead you favor Trumps magic wand that, apparently, got waved about in January 2017, which simply fixed the economy, simply fixed IS after a few months, and now, simply brings global peace by stopping a nuclear holocaust that wasn't coming. Oh, and also pretending that the U.S. is somehow absolutely disconnected from the market systems in the world that dragged on our recovery efforts. All to the glory of Trump; and that is the only personal "result" you are interested in.

It is quite boring discussing sports with a person who's entire being consists of only seeking ways to glorify his team while ignoring the existence of other teams that make it a sport. Unlike the others, however, I won't give up on you. Perhaps finally we might one day have a descent conversation. One only needs to step back and start seeing the world without the partisan lens of intellectual restriction.

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No your problem is you cannot find the data to support your claims thus have nothing but arrogance that prevents you from admitting you are wrong. Putting Trump front and center against Obama isn't that difficult at all as the results simply do not support your claims and the electorate agreed with me. Obama lost the House in 10-12 and Congress in 14-16 having his legacy and policies rejected. You are too biased and partisan to even research to verify what you are being told even though the election does it for you

If the numbers come from the same place then post them to prove me wrong. Tell me that Obama didn't have a 1.5% GDP growth in 2016 and 1.2% GDP Growth first qtr. 2017? Tell me that Obama didn't take employment from 146 million down to 138 million before growing it back to 152 million or a 6 million increase? Tell me that Obama didn't take the debt from 10.6 trillion to 19.9 trillion more than Reagan, GHW and GW Bush combined? Tell me that we didn't have the Arab Spring and growth of ISIS. Tell me that Obama met with NK and enforced the red line in Syria?

You keep proving what a partisan liberal you are totally ignoring how foolish the data makes you look. Data isn't partisan, IT IS FACTUAL!!

Conservative said:

<snip>
If the numbers come from the same place then post them to prove me wrong. Tell me that Obama didn't have a 1.5% GDP growth in 2016 and 1.2% GDP Growth first qtr. 2017? Tell me that Obama didn't take employment from 146 million down to 138 million before growing it back to 152 million or a 6 million increase? Tell me that Obama didn't take the debt from 10.6 trillion to 19.9 trillion more than Reagan, GHW and GW Bush combined? Tell me that we didn't have the Arab Spring and growth of ISIS. Tell me that Obama met with NK and enforced the red line in Syria?

<snip>

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Well, let's hit it all briefly:

1) GDP for 2014= 2.4. / GDP for 2015= 2.6. / GDP for 2016= 1.6 / GDP for 2017= 2.4. These would be the factoids without the context of 2016. Seems that "Trump's" 2017 was just as good as "Obama's" 2014 and 2015 before the world adjusted into a more harmonious spot in 2016. The U.S. economy continued its solid growth and job creation in 2015, while Europe generally picked up speed and Japan remained a question mark. That question mark in the Asian markets was answered in 2016. , hence the trend of recent years-long recovery arriving at 2017's numbers, which you think came out of Trump's butt hole.

2) Debt has been on the rise since George W. Bush. Bush inherited a good thing from Bill Clinton, but was faced with 9/11. He added $5.849 trillion, a 101 percent increase from the $5.8 trillion debt at the end of Clinton's last budget of FY 2001. Barack Obama, inherited the ongoing 9/11 mess and and added $8.588 trillion, a 74 percent increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of Bush’s last budget in FY 2009. And now we have Donald Trump severely slashing government revenue while at the same time severely increasing government spending. Considering your quick and eager forgiveness of Trump's economic contradictions that will increase the debt even more, let's not pretend that debt matters to you beyond a personal means to focus only on Obama.

3) The Arab Spring had nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with Bush. Bush expressly stated in his speech to the UN General Assembly in September 2002 that "If we meet our responsibilities, if we overcome this danger, we can arrive at a very different future. The people of Iraq can shake off their captivity. They can one day join a democratic Afghanistan and a democratic Palestine, inspiring reforms throughout the Muslim world. In 2010, we see the Arab Spring across 22 Muslim countries. But you Conservatives were just too bitter and ignorant to see it. With Iraq proving that ready-made democracy is a fool's dream, you all simply chose to abandon all sense of context in order to play your little Fox News games of hating a liberal. While Arabs took to the streets to voice for socioeconomic justice and democracy, toppling four dictators to boot, you all chose to play partisan games against Obama. For his part, Obama failed to recognize what was happening and failed to seize the opportunity to push the region towards democracy (and I can break this down into economic terms if you wish).

4) IS was inevitable because it grew from decades of Islamist development in militant thought. Given the chance, IS seized opportunity. It is funny how you Conservatives are quick to ignore that it was Bush that provided them territory to begin with by removing the dictator and then by initiating his withdrawal plan. Obama inherited this. IS also served a purpose that was in our best interests. That organization, along with Boko Haram, proved that the Islamist philosophy is very bankrupt. As Muslims continued to take over 90% of the casualties from Islamist terrorists in the world, the entire Middle East witnessed where the Islamist philosophy would lead them. But after years of international support to get rid of IS, local Iraqis on the ground were able to largely do for themselves as people like you tried to carry Trump around on your shoulders for merely arriving during the death rattles.

5) The "red line" cliche is overused, probably because Fox News has become obnoxious with it. Trump met with Kim, because Kim was ready, not because Trump is Trump. Trump just hapens to be the guy standing when it was time. I find it highly pathetic that you would ignore seventeen launches as Trump Tweeted his insults in order to pretend that Trump has done something to instigate favorable current affairs. This is Kim and China, not Trump.

Here we see, again, that you are clueless because you are determined to see the world only through a very ignorant and partisan lens.

MSgt said:

Well, let's hit it all briefly:

1) These would be the factoids without the context of 2016. Seems that "Trump's" 2017 was just as good as "Obama's" 2014 and 2015 before the world adjusted into a more harmonious spot in 2016.

2) Debt has been on the rise since George W. Bush. Bush inherited a good thing from Bill Clinton, but was faced with 9/11. He added $5.849 trillion, a 101 percent increase from the $5.8 trillion debt at the end of Clinton's last budget of FY 2001.

3) The Arab Spring had nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with Bush. Bush expressly stated in his speech to the UN General Assembly in September 2002 that "If we meet our responsibilities, if we overcome this danger, we can arrive at a very different future. The people of Iraq can shake off their captivity. They can one day join a democratic Afghanistan and a democratic Palestine,

4) IS was inevitable because it grew from decades of Islamist development in militant thought. Given the chance, IS seized opportunity. It is funny how you Conservatives are quick to ignore that it was Bush that provided them territory to begin with by removing the dictator and then by initiating his withdrawal plan. Obama inherited this. IS also served a purpose that was in our best interests.

5) The "red line" cliche is overused, probably because Fox News has become obnoxious with it. Trump met with Kim, because Kim was ready, not because Trump is Trump. Trump just hapens to be the guy standing when it was time. I find it highly pathetic that you would ignore seventeen launches as Trump Tweeted his insults in order to pretend that Trump has done something to instigate favorable current affairs. This is Kim and China, not Trump.

Here we see, again, that you are clueless because you are determined to see the world only through a very ignorant and partisan lens.

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Nice try but in case you missed your civics class, Obama took office on January 21, 2009 WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS that passed his stimulus day one, 842 BILLION dollars and the GDP was negative. The next four years it remained historically low especially as bad as the recession you claimed and notice that AFTER the GOP retook Congress we had a better 2014-15 before leaving Trump with a terrible 2016 and first qtr 2017 which was 1.2% and that took the entire year down even though Trump had 3.0, 3.1, and 2.6 for the next three qtrs. How did the recession affect you, your family?? FACT, it didn't

Regarding Debt, yes, the debt was on rise but what you want to ignore is Treasury data showing Clinton adding 1.4 trillion to the debt during his term. You also want to ignore TARP which was a LOAN and part of the debt that Bush left Obama, 450 billion which WAS REPAID!!!!!! Where did the repayment go?? Ask Geithner?

Regarding the Arab Spring, Bush signed the SOF agreement in November 2008 and left office leaving Obama with the negotiating opportunity but Obama to appease his base pulled the troops out. When Bush left office NONE OF Iraq was controlled by ISIS, and there was no ARAB UPRISING IN EGYPT. Please learn history

Regarding Kim and your statement, all are opinions NOT supported by even the mainstream media but rather leftwing talking heads and leftwing sources. You cannot prove the meeting wasn't because of Trump but your hatred prevents you from giving him any credit.

Unable to post this on the last post

Table 1.1.1. Percent Change From Preceding Period in Real Gross Domestic Product
[Percent]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: May 30, 2018 - Next Release Date June 28, 2018

Line 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017
Line
1 Gross domestic product -2.8 2.5 1.6 2.2 1.7 2.6 2.9 1.5 2.3

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So apparently -2.8 with an 842 billion stimulus is ok with you, then 2.5, 1.6, 2.2, 1.7. How do you not have stronger growth coming off a negative?? Answer, POOR ECONOMIC POLICIES

Conservative said:

Nice try but in case you missed your civics class, .....

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Enter the typical response and all the little selective tools to discredit anything that isn't a Republican. This is why, nobody gives you the time of day.

MSgt said:

Enter the typical response and all the little selective tools to discredit anything that isn't a Republican. This is why, nobody gives you the time of day.

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This has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat but everything to do with civics, economics, and policies implemented. You cannot refute the data and it is the data that matters not your opinions and certainly not your partisanship. Today's Democratic Party is a disaster as evidenced by the electorate and the radical policies implemented. I grew up a JFK Democrat who would be turning over in his grave today seeing what has happened to the party. He was the FIRST modern President to implement tax cuts and truly understand the economy. Today's Democratic Party is more about social engineering, creating dependence, and blaming everyone else for personal failures. that is reality, live with it or keep losing what little credibility you have left