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Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case[W:426, 1367]

Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

1.) works just fine
2.) its already been proven. You did factually compare them. uuuhm contrast means to compare. Tell us that "kewl" line about understanding English language again? and then the one about people enjoying enjoying it??? :lamo
Thanks for proving me right and proving the fact you compared them
3.) translation: your claims were proven wrong proven wrong AGAIN and you cant support them with anything accurate, logic or of topically intellectual merit. Thats what I thought! lmao

Please let us know when that changes and you can support your factually proven wrong claims, thanks!



You are the gift that keeps on giving... F5 baby! ;)

Tim-
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

You are the gift that keeps on giving... F5 baby! ;)

Tim-

still nothing huh? LMAO please let us know when you can support your factually proven wrong claims, thanks!
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

Not a single word you've posted in this thread has been true. You and some others are the only ones lacking seriousness.

You should try researching subjects before you post. You would look less silly.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

You are repeating the same moronic lie. Educate yourself.

Try taking your own advice. Have a nice life.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

No, I do not want a cookie. I have two delicious, gay-friendly cakes on the way. I just wanted to rub into your face that you said something stupid in this forum (no surprise there) that I immediately proved wrong.
Did you call him a piece of ****? if not then you didn't prove anything.

If this owner could not care less about my view (that is his job, by the way), then why did the other baker care about the gay couple's view? Hmm. You made a mess out of that one.

This is where you are still 100% wrong and have been wrong and will continue to be wrong. why? because you can't be honest in this discussion.
He didn't care about their view he offered to sell them anything else in the store. The only thing he refused to do was promote a message that he disagreed with.
which is within his right to do. please see artistic expression and the 1A rulings there have been numerous on this.
I didn't make a mess out of anything. again i am for anyone making or not making anything for any purpose they might find offensive.
again you can't be honest this is about the 100th time i have said it.

However if you want to exclude offensive messages then that has to apply to everyone equally and as the judges pointed out it wasn't applied equally.

Also, since you're having another one of your fits of incomprehension, let me spell it out for you. A friend and I walked into a bakery yesterday. I said, "We'd like to buy a cake for a gay wedding." The clerk, who was standing about six feet away from the owner and another employee, said, "Sure. Did you have anything in mind or would you like to look at some options?" Then I said, and I'm quoting myself exactly, "Actually, I just need a sheet cake for a house warming party. I just wanted to make sure you're not a piece of ****." Then all three of the bakery staff, including the owner, laughed. So we went over the house warming cake at which point my friend said, "Actually, maybe we should get something for Chris's and Justin's party, too." I said, "Good idea. We'll also order a round cake for our friends' gay pride party." The owner said, "Give them 10% off that one and tell your friends Happy Pride from us." Stop making up **** and just admit you were wrong. If you can't do that, then please, for the love of a god who loves gay people, just stop posting about things you know nothing about.

There is no incomprehension on my part. Good for you. you found a guy that likes to be called a possible piece of ****. He was an idiot to serve someone that would be so disrespectful.
Not that i believe you in any way shape or form though.

Yes you need to stop posting about things you know nothing about.
I wasn't wrong in the least i have no idea what you said or didn't say i wasn't there.

you have been wrong this entire thread.
i can go back and post the SCOTUS judges if you like?

ol yea if he doesn't offer the same discount for a religious cake you realize he is discriminating?
for someone so outraged at bigotry you sure promote it.

you do know what equal protection is don't you?
as a claimed lawyer i would hope you know what it means.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

You should try researching subjects before you post. You would look less silly.

because he says so is the only argument that he needs.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

Did you call him a piece of ****? if not then you didn't prove anything.



This is where you are still 100% wrong and have been wrong and will continue to be wrong. why? because you can't be honest in this discussion.
He didn't care about their view he offered to sell them anything else in the store. The only thing he refused to do was promote a message that he disagreed with.
which is within his right to do. please see artistic expression and the 1A rulings there have been numerous on this.
I didn't make a mess out of anything. again i am for anyone making or not making anything for any purpose they might find offensive.
again you can't be honest this is about the 100th time i have said it.

However if you want to exclude offensive messages then that has to apply to everyone equally and as the judges pointed out it wasn't applied equally.



There is no incomprehension on my part. Good for you. you found a guy that likes to be called a possible piece of ****. He was an idiot to serve someone that would be so disrespectful.
Not that i believe you in any way shape or form though.

Yes you need to stop posting about things you know nothing about.
I wasn't wrong in the least i have no idea what you said or didn't say i wasn't there.

you have been wrong this entire thread.
i can go back and post the SCOTUS judges if you like?

ol yea if he doesn't offer the same discount for a religious cake you realize he is discriminating?
for someone so outraged at bigotry you sure promote it.

you do know what equal protection is don't you?
as a claimed lawyer i would hope you know what it means.

No, I don't like. I've really thought that maybe you were just trolling the thread. Now I think you actually believe what you've been posting. You really don't understand one ****ing word of the ruling nor anything else I and other posters have told you. I've encouraged you to go learn the truth about this rather than take my word for it. You won't even do that. I can't fix stupid, so as a result, I am finished discussing this subject with you.

Stay in school, kids.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

No, I don't like. I've really thought that maybe you were just trolling the thread. Now I think you actually believe what you've been posting. You really don't understand one ****ing word of the ruling nor anything else I and other posters have told you. I've encouraged you to go learn the truth about this rather than take my word for it. You won't even do that. I can't fix stupid, so as a result, I am finished discussing this subject with you.

Stay in school, kids.

Mateo, I have a hypothetical question for you.
What if Phillips decides to not make, bake and design a specialty wedding cake for Gays sometime down the road?
What will happen to him? My next question will defend on your response.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

I'm super confused about that poster's "contributions" to this entire thread.
Actually it is very clear, the only thing he posts is irrelevant drivel and nothing of substance.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

Try taking your own advice. Have a nice life.
I have a nice life thank you and it was the same moronic lie repeated. Clearly knowledge is not something you seek.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

because he says so is the only argument that he needs.
The typical dishonest bull crap from you. The facts of the case are there for anyone with basic reading skill to read. You should try it or have it explained to you.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

No, I don't like. I've really thought that maybe you were just trolling the thread. Now I think you actually believe what you've been posting. You really don't understand one ****ing word of the ruling nor anything else I and other posters have told you. I've encouraged you to go learn the truth about this rather than take my word for it. You won't even do that. I can't fix stupid, so as a result, I am finished discussing this subject with you.

Stay in school, kids.

We know you don't understand the ruling.
basically it came down to this.

The CO commission discriminated against the baker and his religious beliefs. in that regard their so called penalty and punishment were thrown out.
The fact you still don't understand this is simply amazing even though it has been copied and pasted to you numerous times.

the opinion by Justice Anthony Kennedy rested largely on the majority’s conclusion that the Colorado administrative agency that ruled against Phillips treated him unfairly by being too hostile to his sincere religious beliefs.

On the one hand, society has recognized that “gay persons and gay couples cannot be treated as social outcasts or as inferior in dignity and worth,” and their rights are protected by the Constitution. On the other hand, “the religious and philosophical objections to gay marriage are protected views and in some instances protected forms of expression.” bolded for emphasis.

“This sentiment,” Kennedy admonished, “is inappropriate for a Commission charged with the solemn responsibility of fair and neutral enforcement of Colorado’s anti-discrimination law—a law that protects discrimination on the basis of religion as well as sexual orientation.” Moreover, Kennedy added, the commission’s treatment of Phillips’ religious objections was at odds with its rulings in the cases of bakers who refused to create cakes “with images that conveyed disapproval of same-sex marriage.”

Here, Kennedy wrote, Phillips “was entitled to a neutral decisionmaker who would give full and fair consideration to his religious objection as he sought to assert it in all of the circumstances in which this case was presented, considered, and decided.” Because he did not have such a proceeding, the court concluded, the commission’s order – which, among other things, required Phillips to sell same-sex couples wedding cakes or anything else that he would sell to opposite-sex couples and mandated remedial training and compliance reports – “must be set aside.”

Gorsuch emphasized that, in the United States, “the place of secular officials isn’t to sit in judgment of religious beliefs, but only to protect their free exercise. Just as it is the ‘proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence’ that we protect speech that we hate, it must be the proudest boast of our free exercise jurisprudence that we protect religious beliefs that we find offensive.”

In Thomas’ view, Phillips’ creation of custom wedding cakes is exactly the kind of “expressive” conduct protected by the First Amendment. Requiring Phillips to make such cakes for same-sex marriage, even when it will convey a message that “he believes his faith forbids,” violates his First Amendment rights.

Thomas’ discussion of Phillips’ free-speech claim seemed to acknowledge this, with his observation that, “in future cases, the freedom of speech could be essential to preventing” the Supreme Court’s 2015 decision in Obergefell v. Hodges, recognizing a constitutional right to same-sex marriage, from being used to “portray everyone who does not” agree with that ruling “as bigoted and unentitled to express a different view.”

The court says you are 100% wrong.

you cannot discriminate against peoples religious views. no matter if you like them or not. the state must stay neutral and consider all aspects.
no you can't fix what you have posted it is too late to do so.

Avoid his school kids. They don't teach you constitutional rights such as equal protection.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

Mateo, I have a hypothetical question for you.
What if Phillips decides to not make, bake and design a specialty wedding cake for Gays sometime down the road?
What will happen to him? My next question will defend on your response.

Phillips has to serve gay people period. he cannot refuse to serve them things that are already made in his store.
what he has a right and all businesses have a right to do is not serve or promote messages that they find offensive
or conflict with their religious or non-religious beliefs.

The SCOTUS semi-backed this up in their majority writing.

If you are a song writer you can refuse to write a song that has foul language and other such language.
you can refuse to write that God is great. YOu can refuse to write God is good.

a painter can refuse to paint a picture of Christ or the devil.
they could refuse to paint a gay flag.

that is the important aspect of a free society and free speech.
in fact it is a fundamental key
 
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Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

Mateo, I have a hypothetical question for you.
What if Phillips decides to not make, bake and design a specialty wedding cake for Gays sometime down the road?
What will happen to him? My next question will defend on your response.

The question's premise is faulty and cannot be answered as it was asked.

The "specialty wedding cake" thing has been addressed in the OR case and either that or a similar case will get to the SCOTUS eventually.

In order for me to answer your question you will need to stipulate that this hypothetical gay couple wants to buy a wedding cake out of a book that the bakery routinely sells to straight couples. Not a cake out of the display case. Not a "specialty wedding cake". A normal wedding cake customary in the bakery's business.

Secondly, you will have to stipulate that the baker sells wedding cakes and that the hypothetical gay couple is not asking the baker for a product he does not sell.

Are we on the same page?

If so, I will answer your question. You should have noticed, though, that I've already addressed this question in this thread.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

Actually it is very clear, the only thing he posts is irrelevant drivel and nothing of substance.

Yeah, but I can't even read half of what he writes. It's strange.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

The typical dishonest bull crap from you. The facts of the case are there for anyone with basic reading skill to read. You should try it or have it explained to you.

Good luck with that. Lost cause, that one.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

The question's premise is faulty and cannot be answered as it was asked.

The "specialty wedding cake" thing has been addressed in the OR case and either that or a similar case will get to the SCOTUS eventually.

In order for me to answer your question you will need to stipulate that this hypothetical gay couple wants to buy a wedding cake out of a book that the bakery routinely sells to straight couples. Not a cake out of the display case. Not a "specialty wedding cake". A normal wedding cake customary in the bakery's business.

Secondly, you will have to stipulate that the baker sells wedding cakes and that the hypothetical gay couple is not asking the baker for a product he does not sell.

Are we on the same page?

If so, I will answer your question. You should have noticed, though, that I've already addressed this question in this thread.

This is what was argued to the SC... Let's take this back to Phillips.

The CO Civil Rights Commission found that Phillips discriminated and broke CO. law.

Per Phillip's attorneys who petitioned the SC...
“Jack serves all customers; he simply declines to express messages or celebrate events that violate his deeply held beliefs," “Creative professionals who serve all people should be free to create art consistent with their convictions without the threat of government punishment.”
Government hostility toward people of faith has no place in our society, yet the state of Colorado was openly antagonistic toward Jack’s religious beliefs about marriage,” Waggoner added. “The court was right to condemn that. Tolerance and respect for good-faith differences of opinion are essential in a society like ours. This decision makes clear that the government must respect Jack’s beliefs about marriage.”

Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote that “the record here demonstrates that the Commission’s consideration of Phillips’ case was neither tolerant nor respectful of his religious beliefs.”

So, again, here's my question, but let's change the parameters of my original question above.
Phillips does the same thing all over again, refusing another Gay couple just like he did the other Gay couple....
How does CO. law punish Phillips since the SC has already ruled that it was Phillips who was discriminated against?
 
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Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

This is what was argued to the SC... Let's take this back to Phillips.

The CO Civil Rights Commission found that Phillips discriminated and broke CO. law.

Per Phillip's attorneys who petitioned the SC...
“Jack serves all customers; he simply declines to express messages or celebrate events that violate his deeply held beliefs," “Creative professionals who serve all people should be free to create art consistent with their convictions without the threat of government punishment.”
Government hostility toward people of faith has no place in our society, yet the state of Colorado was openly antagonistic toward Jack’s religious beliefs about marriage,” Waggoner added. “The court was right to condemn that. Tolerance and respect for good-faith differences of opinion are essential in a society like ours. This decision makes clear that the government must respect Jack’s beliefs about marriage.”

Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote that “the record here demonstrates that the Commission’s consideration of Phillips’ case was neither tolerant nor respectful of his religious beliefs.”

So, again, here's my question, but let's change the parameters of my original question above.
Phillips does the same thing all over again, refusing another Gay couple just like he did the other Gay couple....
How does CO. law punish Phillips since the SC has already ruled that it was Phillips who was discriminated against?

I've already answered that question too.

If Phillips does the exact same thing tomorrow that he did in 2012, he will be brought before the CCRC again. It will use the same law against him again. He will lose again. He will appeal the ruling again.

This is the very first point in the story where the situation would be able to diverge at all from the situation that has just been settled. Everything before this point will repeat itself.

Either the higher courts will find that the CCRC discriminated against Phillips again by saying something stupid again and overturn the CCRC ruling again or it will find that the CCRC was fair when it applied CO's lawful AD statute to him this time and uphold the CCRC's ruling. There are two other options. The higher courts could find CO's AD statute to be unconstitutional and nullify it. The higher courts could also find that although CO's AD statute is constitutional and that it may remain on the books it puts an undue burden on Phillips's religious freedom and violates his 1A rights. They could exempt people with "deeply held religious convictions" from the statute.

Those last two sentences is what you and ludin and Obamacarefail think has happened. It hasn't. That's not what the ruling says and it's not what the ruling does. The part that I bolded above is all that has happened. I refer you to the many links that say what I just said, which should be self-evident to people who have read and understand the ruling, that were published by a range of credible sources that I linked in post # 1038.

See, you all are not grasping that the SCOTUS did not rule on the CO statute. It never said that the statute is just and proper or not. It never considered whether the law violates everyone's rights or just religious people's rights or no one's rights at all. The only thing it said is that the comments of a member of the CCRC guaranteed that Phillips could not get a fair hearing in front of that CCRC. The SCOTUS found the CCRC out of line in its application of the statute and found absolutely nothing wrong with the statute itself. It might do that sometime in the future, but it didn't do it last week. The law did not discriminate against Phillips. The State of CO, acting through the CCRC, discriminated against Phillips. That is not splitting hairs or playing with semantics. That is a fundamental and defining aspect of this ruling.

The law still stands. Phillips is still not allowed by law to bake wedding cakes in CO unless he sells them to gay people. This is the only valid interpretation of this court ruling. I've belabored the point for almost 150 pages and cannot make it any clearer.
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

I've already answered that question too.

If Phillips does the exact same thing tomorrow that he did in 2012, he will be brought before the CCRC again. It will use the same law against him again. He will lose again. He will appeal the ruling again.

This is the very first point in the story where the situation would be able to diverge at all from the situation that has just been settled. Everything before this point will repeat itself.

Either the higher courts will find that the CCRC discriminated against Phillips again by saying something stupid again and overturn the CCRC ruling again or it will find that the CCRC was fair when it applied CO's lawful AD statute to him this time and uphold the CCRC's ruling. There are two other options. The higher courts could find CO's AD statute to be unconstitutional and nullify it. The higher courts could also find that although CO's AD statute is constitutional and that it may remain on the books it puts an undue burden on Phillips's religious freedom and violates his 1A rights. They could exempt people with "deeply held religious convictions" from the statute.

That last sentence is what you and ludin and Obamacarefail think has happened. It hasn't. That's not what the ruling says and it's not what the ruling does. The part that I bolded above is all that has happened. I refer you to the many links that say what I just said, which should be self-evident to people who have read and understand the ruling, that were published by a range of credible sources that I linked in post # 1038.

See, you all are not grasping that the SCOTUS did not rule on the CO statute. It never said that the statute is just and proper or not. It never considered whether the law violates everyone's rights or just religious people's rights or no one's rights at all. The only thing it said is that the comments of a member of the CCRC guaranteed that Phillips could not get a fair hearing in front of that CCRC. The SCOTUS found the CCRC out of line in its application of the statute and found absolutely nothing wrong with the statute itself. It might do that sometime in the future, but it didn't do it last week. The law did not discriminate against Phillips. The State of CO, acting through the CCRC, discriminated against Phillips. That is not splitting hairs or playing with semantics. That is a fundamental and defining aspect of this ruling.

The law still stands. Phillips is still not allowed by law to bake wedding cakes in CO unless he sells them to gay people. This is the only valid interpretation of this court ruling. I've belabored the point for almost 150 pages and cannot make it any clearer.

But the SC has already said that Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote that “the record here demonstrates that the Commission’s consideration of Phillips’ case was neither tolerant nor respectful of his religious beliefs.”
Doesn't that mean that if Phillips refused again for the same exact reason as he did before, and fought the commission's punishment, the SC would rule the same way?

And before you go telling me I don't understand again, I do understand that the commission enforced CO. law when they ordered Phillips to comply with the law. Read on.

The case reached the U.S. Supreme Court after the Colorado Supreme Court declined to review a Colorado Court of Appeals ruling in the case. That ruling affirmed a Colorado Civil Rights Commission decision from May 2014 that ordered Phillips to design custom wedding cakes celebrating same-sex marriages if he creates other wedding cakes.

The commission’s order also required Phillips to re-educate his staff, most of whom are his family members—essentially teaching them that he was wrong to operate his business according to his faith. An additional requirement was to report to the government for two years all cakes that he declined to create and the reasons why. Because the order left Phillips with no realistic choice but to stop designing wedding cakes, he lost approximately 40 percent of his income and has been struggling to keep his small business afloat
 
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Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

1.)But the SC has already said that Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote that “the record here demonstrates that the Commission’s consideration of Phillips’ case was neither tolerant nor respectful of his religious beliefs.”
Doesn't that mean that if Phillips refused again for the same exact reason as he did before, and fought the commission's punishment, the SC would rule the same way?

And before you go telling me I don't understand again, I do understand that the commission enforced CO. law when they ordered Phillips to comply with the law. Read on.

The case reached the U.S. Supreme Court after the Colorado Supreme Court declined to review a Colorado Court of Appeals ruling in the case. That ruling affirmed a Colorado Civil Rights Commission decision from May 2014 that ordered Phillips to design custom wedding cakes celebrating same-sex marriages if he creates other wedding cakes.

The commission’s order also required Phillips to re-educate his staff, most of whom are his family members—essentially teaching them that he was wrong to operate his business according to his faith. An additional requirement was to report to the government for two years all cakes that he declined to create and the reasons why. Because the order left Phillips with no realistic choice but to stop designing wedding cakes, he lost approximately 40 percent of his income and has been struggling to keep his small business afloat

absolutely not, unless the state would conduct itself that same which was pointed out by the same person the state could have did its ruling in a proper way
hopefully the state and the baker learned from thier mistakes
lastly his ability to keep his business afloat is meaningless to the case
 
Re: Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case

A cake is not a message. Go read the OR case.

I don't care how you spin it, the CO baker is not allowed to object to a gay wedding or a gay couple or a gay person. He broke the law. You know, the law that still controls his business today.

I've read every word of the ruling twice. I've read pertinent parts of it a lot more than that. Either you haven't read the ruling yourself, you're lying about its meaning and implications, or you truly just don't understand it.


First, it is a matter of opinion if the CO baker broke the law. The judgement was tossed out and it remains speculative if SCOTUS will eventually decide on whether or not the law is constitutional.

Second, you are correct, a generic cake is not an expression. But a wedding cake is, regardless of what either the Oregon or Colorado local or federal appeals courts say not.

Third, your are correct, can and does discriminate against someone's religious views. And "it does so every single ****ing day." But should they be allowed to? In many cases, no.
 
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