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Korean leaders hold surprise second summit as Trump says Kim talks could go ahead

Atomic Kid

Atomic Kid

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/korean-leaders-hold-surprise-second-summit-trump-says-kim-summit-n877761

SEOUL, South Korea — The leaders of North and South Korea met in the demilitarized zone separating the two countries on Saturday, hours after President Donald Trump suggested his June 12 summit with Kim Jong Un may still go ahead.

Kim and South Korean President Moon Jae-in reportedly discussed the denuclearization agreement the two leaders signed when they first met at the border last month, according to a statement released by South Korea's presidential Blue House, as well as the potential summit with Trump.

Saturday's surprise talks between the rival Koreas came hours after Trump told reporters that the planned June 12 summit in Singapore, which he abruptly canceled on Thursday, might still be salvaged. Trump axed his summit with Kim but analysts say talks are the 'only game in town'
“We’re going to see what happens,” he told reporters. “We're talking to them now. It could even be the 12th” of June.

The president then tweeted late Friday night that the two countries are having "very productive talks" about reinstating the summit. Kim and Moon met for two hours on the North Korean side of the truce village Panmunjom between 3 and 5 p.m. local time (2.00 to 4.00 a.m. ET), according to the Blue House, which released pictures of the two leaders embracing. "The two leaders exchanged views frankly in order to make the U.S.-N.K. summit talks happen successfully and to carry out the 4.27 Panmunjeom Declaration," said Yoon Young Chan, a presidential spokesman, referring to the agreement signed after last month's historic talks.

Based on an agreement between the two leaders, Moon will announce the results of the latest talks at 10 a.m. local time Sunday (9 p.m. ET Saturday).
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As I read that headline it would appear that this second summit between North and South Korea came as a surprise not only to the media, but to the US as well. Is this another sign of a key ally losing it's faith in the US to be a reliable partner and feels compelled to have to act proactively in order to ensure that it's own self-interest is being protected? If so this is yet more evidence of a disturbing pattern of a fracturing of the relations between the US and many of it's longtime and key allies. A trend that is very likely to make the world more of an unsafe place then it was before.
 
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Atomic Kid said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/korean-leaders-hold-surprise-second-summit-trump-says-kim-summit-n877761



As I read that headline it would appear that this second summit between North and South Korea came as a surprise not only to the media, but to the US as well. Is this another sign of a key ally losing it's faith in the US to be a reliable partner and feels compelled to have to act proactively in order to ensure that it's own self-interest is being protected? If so this is yet more evidence of a disturbing pattern of a fracturing of the relations between the US and many of longtime and key allies. A trend that is very likely to make the world more of an unsafe place then it was before.
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This has been Kim's plan all along to reunite the two Koreas and remove the US military presence.
 
Crosscheck said:
This has been Kim's plan all along to reunite the two Koreas and remove the US military presence.
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Yes, it would appear that driving a wedge into the alliance between the US and South Korea is a strategic goal of China and North Korea.
 
Atomic Kid said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/korean-leaders-hold-surprise-second-summit-trump-says-kim-summit-n877761



As I read that headline it would appear that this second summit between North and South Korea came as a surprise not only to the media, but to the US as well. Is this another sign of a key ally losing it's faith in the US to be a reliable partner and feels compelled to have to act proactively in order to ensure that it's own self-interest is being protected? If so this is yet more evidence of a disturbing pattern of a fracturing of the relations between the US and many of it's longtime and key allies. A trend that is very likely to make the world more of an unsafe place then it was before.
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What makes you say the highlighted part is true? Nothing in the article said as much. Heck, it's possible Trump knew about this meeting before it happened and just didn't say anything to the media about it.

If this is the case, then the rest of your speculation would be just plain wrong.
 
Atomic Kid said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/korean-leaders-hold-surprise-second-summit-trump-says-kim-summit-n877761



As I read that headline it would appear that this second summit between North and South Korea came as a surprise not only to the media, but to the US as well. Is this another sign of a key ally losing it's faith in the US to be a reliable partner and feels compelled to have to act proactively in order to ensure that it's own self-interest is being protected? If so this is yet more evidence of a disturbing pattern of a fracturing of the relations between the US and many of it's longtime and key allies. A trend that is very likely to make the world more of an unsafe place then it was before.
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This is great news for the Koreas.
 
Mycroft said:
What makes you say the highlighted part is true? Nothing in the article said as much. Heck, it's possible Trump knew about this meeting before it happened and just didn't say anything to the media about it.

If this is the case, then the rest of your speculation would be just plain wrong.
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Because there was no mention of any such meeting taking place by the administration at all and from simply using reasonable deduction. I did place a caveat in there by asking is this another sign. But from what I'm seeing this appears to indeed be the case
 
Atomic Kid said:
Because there was no mention of any such meeting taking place by the administration at all and from simply using reasonable deduction. I did place a caveat in there by asking is this another sign. But from what I'm seeing this appears to indeed be the case
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As I pointed out, just because Trump didn't mention the meeting that doesn't mean he didn't know it was going to happen. By extension, that means your whole "rift" nonsense, which you underpin with this imaginary "being surprised" on the part of the Trump people, is speculation, at best.

Anyway, what else are you seeing that makes you think there's a rift here? Do you have anything other than baseless speculation?
 
Atomic Kid said:
Yes, it would appear that driving a wedge into the alliance between the US and South Korea is a strategic goal of China and North Korea.
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Wow what a thought! That has been their goal for only 60 years and you finally figured it out. BTW many South Koreans would like the same thing and have well before Trump,Obama et al. took office.

I think that should be our goal as well. Bring our kids home out of harms way. Let South Korea spend the many billions it will take to bring North Korea into the modern world. It would also make us safer. I united Korea is much less likely to threaten us or sell their technology to terrorists.
 
Good. The Koreans should be the ones to talk about this. I dont see what the US has anything to do with it.
 
Atomic Kid said:
Because there was no mention of any such meeting taking place by the administration at all and from simply using reasonable deduction. I did place a caveat in there by asking is this another sign. But from what I'm seeing this appears to indeed be the case
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We didn't tell the South that we were going to public discuss how we wanted the same model as what we did in Libya, we didn't tell them we were going to shred the Iran deal, and we didn't tell them we were cancelling the summit.

It's obvious they are taking this into their own hands.

The reason the North were so restrained in their response is precisely because they want to look like diplomats willing to talk, while making the US look like unpredictable warmongers.
 
PoS said:
Good. The Koreans should be the ones to talk about this. I dont see what the US has anything to do with it.
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Nothing, but our president wants to look like the engineer behind any fruitful discussions.
 
washunut said:
Let South Korea spend the many billions it will take to bring North Korea into the modern world. /QUOTE]

And there is where it all falls apart. For that to happen it would mean that the people of NK would find out what the real world is like. Once they see how they have been deceived for all the years, lived in servitude to Kim while being kept in the dark to reality, the possibility of a revolt is great. Kim would be ousted as dictator and that is a power he is not about to let go of.
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MovingPictures said:
Nothing, but our president wants to look like the engineer behind any fruitful discussions.
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" Originally Posted by Amelia
It's so hard to picture anyone doing that purposely. I still have no idea what to make of it. I wonder if he was having an Ambien episode."

Dave said on May 21
"
It was Moon of S Korea and Kim of N Korea that initiated these talks to the mutual benefit of the Korean peninsula (sp). It is possible that Bolton is the red herring to make sure the Koreans don't collectively decide the USA is not needed on the Penninsula. S Korea is one of our bases to threaten China and Russia. Trump is not about PEACE. It is so not profitable. Peace ends wars and the wonderful profit streams. Trump is "yay Trump, screw a bunch of Koreans," or he would not have threatened to nuke the penninsula."

It would appear that the statement is exactly correct and prophetic. Nuke the talks between Koreans.
/
 
Sabre said:
And there is where it all falls apart. For that to happen it would mean that the people of NK would find out what the real world is like. Once they see how they have been deceived for all the years, lived in servitude to Kim while being kept in the dark to reality, the possibility of a revolt is great. Kim would be ousted as dictator and that is a power he is not about to let go of.
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Which is exactly why he won't give-up his nukes.
 
Mycroft said:
As I pointed out, just because Trump didn't mention the meeting that doesn't mean he didn't know it was going to happen. By extension, that means your whole "rift" nonsense, which you underpin with this imaginary "being surprised" on the part of the Trump people, is speculation, at best.

Anyway, what else are you seeing that makes you think there's a rift here? Do you have anything other than baseless speculation?
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President may have been unaware or Trump may have set it up. What difference does it make?

NoKo and SoKo had a meeting to discuss their differences. That's a good thing. We've been nation building in Korea for 70 years with no results. Maybe we should give the two of them a shot.
 
jimbo said:
President may have been unaware or Trump may have set it up. What difference does it make?

NoKo and SoKo had a meeting to discuss their differences. That's a good thing. We've been nation building in Korea for 70 years with no results. Maybe we should give the two of them a shot.
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I think S/N Korea talking to each other without the US is a good thing.

I would venture to guess that Trump thinks so, too.
 
Mycroft said:
I think S/N Korea talking to each other without the US is a good thing.

I would venture to guess that Trump thinks so, too.
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For sure it can't work out worse. The last time all parties sat down for talks with the US mediating it took 3 weeks to decide where to place the chairs. It's been downhill since.
 
Atomic Kid said:
Yes, it would appear that driving a wedge into the alliance between the US and South Korea is a strategic goal of China and North Korea.
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Could be, China is clearly involved. They seemed to have been somewhat sidelined at first, but Kim's meeting with Xi changed things:
In early May, around the same time the hostages were released, Kim flew to Dalian, China, where he met for two days with Xi Jinping. We don't know what the Chinese dictator and Kim said to each other. But we do know that, by the end of the meeting, the North Korean tyrant was backing away from his gestures of conciliation. The two governments issued a statement saying North Korea was open to giving up its nuclear weapons "as relevant parties eliminate the hostile policy and security threats" against its government. And in the weeks that followed, North Korea became increasingly belligerent, antagonistic toward key Trump officials, and, according to Mike Pompeo, uncommunicative.

Was the bilateral meeting a fool's errand to begin with? Probably. Did John Bolton and Mike Pence's references to the "Libya model" of complete, verifiable, and irreversible denuclearization spook the Communist apparatchiks? No doubt. Does Trump's decision to withdraw put Kim and Xi on their heels? Absolutely.

We are dealing with both North Korea and China here. Beijing's warnings that it cannot "control" Kim notwithstanding, the two governments function in a close alliance. North Korea would not exist without Beijing's support. And Beijing protects North Korea precisely because it fears nothing more than another democracy on its borders. For the Chinese, one Mongolia is enough. The China Problem
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Meanwhile, the LA Times ridiculously postulates Trump is anxious of securing his “legacy” and is trying hard to keep the summit on track, Trump’s “legacy” contingent on a quite spontaneous offer from Kim? No, I think Trump is handling the situation as one would expect. Kim’s offer was an unexpected and quite positive development, Trump’s quick agreement to summit makes sense as this would lock-in the offer which was desirable.

We may differ on what Kim’s offer really means, but at the time it was relayed by the South Korean delegation (who speak the language) it was clear; Kim offered to eliminate his nuclear arsenal, did not make this contingent on US military withdrawal from South Korea and did not demand the removal of existing sanctions. Trump’s critics have belabored the meaning to Kim of “denuclearization”. They tell us he wants the removal of the US “nuclear umbrella” that protects South Korea and Japan and the withdrawal of US forces on the ground.

Kim did return from China with a bigger offer and some demands; he now sought “peaceful reunification" and this implied US military withdrawal, but he never explicitly said so. The summit at the DMZ with Kim and Moon shaking hands and walking across the border, calls for a peace treaty and peaceful reunification had Trump’s critics at it again; this would require substantial investment in North Korea to integrate the economies, sanctions would need to be lifted and the US would have to remove its forces.

Trump is still with the original offer, all this added stuff (peace treaty, reunification, development…) is all good and desirable, but what Trump wants and remains is “verifiable” elimination of North Korea’s nuclear capabilities.
 
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jimbo said:
For sure it can't work out worse. The last time all parties sat down for talks with the US mediating it took 3 weeks to decide where to place the chairs. It's been downhill since.
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The difference this time is that Trump is actually dealing with the country that matters: China.
 
Mycroft said:
The difference this time is that Trump is actually dealing with the country that matters: China.
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Yeah, he's dealing with it by trying to bail out ZTE.
 
PoS said:
Yeah, he's dealing with it by trying to bail out ZTE.
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ZTE is an unrelated issue, but from what I've read, it isn't much of a bail out. The requirements are pretty tough.
 
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