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DOJ, Trump strike murky deal in FBI informant spat

haymarket said:
Actually it is avery direct and forceful exposure of mental delusions held by the far right Trumpkins. I guess I can understand how you would try to run and hide from such a stunning rebuke.
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And I fully understand why you hide from the discussion of the topic.

Carry on
 
hanger4 said:
And I fully understand why you hide from the discussion of the topic.

Carry on
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And you still have no clue about anything I have said to you. Denial is a powerful delusion it would seem.
 
haymarket said:
And you still have no clue about anything I have said to you. Denial is a powerful delusion it would seem.
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Your words are nor sacrosanct, get over yourself. Do you understand the purpose of a forum ??
 
iguanaman said:
Actually it was AFTER the dossier was leaked that Putin cracked down on who he thought were the leakers. (Fusion GPS)
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I'm sure you can appreciate how anything sourced to Fusion GPS is of dubious credibility. Do remember Fusion was Steele's actual employer.

I'd consider how we're dealing with spies and nothing in espionage appears as it is. Some say Steele is a very well-reputed, highly experienced, quite senior highest level agent who operated (and still maintains) a vast network of similarly situated collaborators in various intelligence-related fields across Russia. I note his cover was blown nearly thirty years ago. He does run an operation devoted to "business intelligence", I used to do this in Spain, prepared "commercial reports" (due diligence) for executives contemplating mergers and acquisitions, most of the information is now available online, when I was at it we could gather some from public records and banks. When something didn't 'jibe' there'd be a bit of sleuthing and contacts were helpful, but these had to be cultivated. I worked in Madrid where most of Spain's business is, so I could see my contacts regularly, Steele couldn't do this.

My primary contention is that since Putin himself was a KGB officer, he would be well-acquainted with the quality and character of intelligence, he would appreciate better than most the value of the dossier, likely knew as it was being crafted what Steele was looking for and who was paying him. Would a savvy intelligence officer feed disinformation to prevent Trump's election, to embarrass or blackmail Hillary when it was found to be wholly unverifiable and the product of Russian counterintelligence, would he retain the compromising information to blackmail Trump... How about the Hillary and DNC leakage, would someone like Putin find it preferable to give this information to Trump or reveal it to the public instead of withholding it to blackmail Hillary?
 
hanger4 said:
Your words are nor sacrosanct, get over yourself. Do you understand the purpose of a forum ??
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I completely understand the purpose of your posts here. Completely.
 
haymarket said:
I completely understand the purpose of your posts here. Completely.
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No you don't, you're a bit of a snob/elitist and don't believe anyone should question your words. When you are questioned and have no rebuttal you question their sanity and call th delusional.
 
Plus Ultra said:
I'm sure you can appreciate how anything sourced to Fusion GPS is of dubious credibility. Do remember Fusion was Steele's actual employer.

I'd consider how we're dealing with spies and nothing in espionage appears as it is. Some say Steele is a very well-reputed, highly experienced, quite senior highest level agent who operated (and still maintains) a vast network of similarly situated collaborators in various intelligence-related fields across Russia. I note his cover was blown nearly thirty years ago. He does run an operation devoted to "business intelligence", I used to do this in Spain, prepared "commercial reports" (due diligence) for executives contemplating mergers and acquisitions, most of the information is now available online, when I was at it we could gather some from public records and banks. When something didn't 'jibe' there'd be a bit of sleuthing and contacts were helpful, but these had to be cultivated. I worked in Madrid where most of Spain's business is, so I could see my contacts regularly, Steele couldn't do this.

My primary contention is that since Putin himself was a KGB officer, he would be well-acquainted with the quality and character of intelligence, he would appreciate better than most the value of the dossier, likely knew as it was being crafted what Steele was looking for and who was paying him. Would a savvy intelligence officer feed disinformation to prevent Trump's election, to embarrass or blackmail Hillary when it was found to be wholly unverifiable and the product of Russian counterintelligence, would he retain the compromising information to blackmail Trump... How about the Hillary and DNC leakage, would someone like Putin find it preferable to give this information to Trump or reveal it to the public instead of withholding it to blackmail Hillary?
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LOL There were no criminal acts in any of the hacked emails. It was not blackmail material. Besides the deal was made with the Trump campaign. The over 50 Russian contacts were not coincidental and neither was the lying about those contacts by Trumps people..and Trump of course. Do you have a explanation for all those lies or the attempt to secretly lift Russian sanctions right after Trumps inauguration? That frightened Congress so much that they passed a bill(98 yea votes) forbidding Trump from removing them These are the important questions that Mueller will be asking too. You need to ask yourself too.
 
hanger4 said:
No you don't, you're a bit of a snob/elitist and don't believe anyone should question your words. When you are questioned and have no rebuttal you question their sanity and call th delusional.
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You sound very very confused. I made my position clear - very very clear.

Anyone who rejects at this late date the reality that the Russians interfered in our election to help Trump get elected and top Trump people encouraged and welcomed it and colluded with the Russians is simply not living in reality and there is no need to even attempt to try rational discourse with a person who is obviously not rational.

I did not disqualify you. You disqualified yourself.
 
haymarket said:
You sound very very confused. I made my position clear - very very clear.

Anyone who rejects at this late date the reality that the Russians interfered in our election to help Trump get elected and top Trump people encouraged and welcomed it and colluded with the Russians is simply not living in reality and there is no need to even attempt to try rational discourse with a person who is obviously not rational.

I did not disqualify you. You disqualified yourself.
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We weren't discussing what's in your overly large rant, we were specifically discussing campaign law "thing of value" Trump Campaign vs DNC/Clinton Campaign.

The only very very confused seems to be haymarket or your rant is a failed attempt at diversion.
 
hanger4 said:
We weren't discussing what's in your overly large rant, we were specifically discussing campaign law "thing of value" Trump Campaign vs DNC/Clinton Campaign.

The only very very confused seems to be haymarket or your rant is a failed attempt at diversion.
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We were discussing reality and Trump and the Russians.

At least I was.
 
haymarket said:
We were discussing reality and Trump and the Russians.

At least I was.
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You know better, we were specifically discussing "a think of value" amd how it relates to the Trump Campaign and Clinton Campaign. You should be ashamed for making things up to CYA, any and all can read our back and forth.
 
I don't know if this GQ piece is already in this tl;dr thread, so here you go:

https://www.gq.com/story/spygate-conspiracy-theory-explained

The plot goes like this: During the summer of 2016, on the clandestine orders of then-president Barack Obama, the FBI and CIA hatched an ambitious plan to topple the Trump campaign from the inside. In a scandal of unprecedented scope, Democratic politicians commandeered American counterintelligence resources to spy on their primary political opponent and boost Hillary Clinton's chances of winning the election. The Russia investigation that has dominated headlines for nearly two years is, in fact, a desperate smokescreen conjured up by terrified Deep State actors to conceal evidence of their own wrongdoing, and to frame the president for heinous crimes he didn't commit.

On May 8, The Washington Post reported on the White House's decision to back the Justice Department's withholding of information from House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes, on the grounds that disclosure would expose the identity of "a U.S. citizen who has provided information to the FBI and CIA." The authors added, though, that the individual had been a source of information used by the special counsel's office—and that it was unclear whether Trump knew this "key fact" when his administration chose to side with law enforcement.

It didn't take long for him to find out. Almost immediately, the right-wing-media ecosystem began laundering and repackaging this news item, weaving its constituent elements together with Trumpian talking points until a full-blown conspiracy theory worthy of the president's tweets emerged on the other side. This metamorphosis is what would happen if a word cloud sourced from a Trump rally were used in a giant game of telephone—but one in which the gibberish end result were then broadcast as news to hundreds of millions of recipients.
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...

How did this happen?

May 10
Two days after the initial report, citing "the Washington Post's unnamed law-enforcement leakers," The Wall Street Journal publishes an analysis by conservative commentator Kim Strassel. "[W]e might take this to mean that the FBI secretly had a person on the payroll who used his or her non-FBI credentials to interact in some capacity with the Trump campaign." Such a development, she writes, "would amount to spying, and it is hugely disconcerting." Strassel continues (all emphasis mine):

[W]hen precisely was this human source operating? Because if it was prior to that infamous Papadopoulos tip, then the FBI isn’t being straight. It would mean the bureau was spying on the Trump campaign prior to that moment. And that in turn would mean that the FBI had been spurred to act on the basis of something other than a junior campaign aide’s loose lips.

This is at once cautious and bold, introducing the salacious vocabulary of espionage to a detail about an intelligence source—but only, she clarifies, if the allegations are true. Strassel does not offer a reason for entertaining her hypothetical, other than her characterization of the players' accounts of the investigation as "suspiciously vague." She is, in the classic style of well-compensated public intellectuals filling up column inches, just asking questions.

That night, other journalists are happy to offer answers. On Sean Hannity's Fox News show, journalist Sara Carter, citing Strassel, tells listeners of “concern that the FBI actually had a spy within the Trump campaign.” Hannity is dumbfounded: “What? What?” he splutters. "Yes," replies Carter. Blogs like Gateway Pundit kick off the breathless hyperbole category. "Now we know why the Deep State has been working so hard to take down President Trump and the republic," said the post, linking to and block-quoting Strassel. "OBAMA DEEP STATE HAD A SPY INSIDE THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN!"
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apdst said:
Was it illegal for other candidates to do it? Or, are you only pissed because you think President Trump did it?
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Actually there was another candidate that was approached by Russia for help in his campaign. It was Adlai Stevenson in 1960. He declined the help and told his opponent, Eisenhower about it. That is what an real American does. Too bad Trump is scum. You do know you are tarring yourself with the same brush.
 
iguanaman said:
Actually there was another candidate that was approached by Russia for help in his campaign. It was Adlai Stevenson in 1960. He declined the help and told his opponent, Eisenhower about it. That is what an real American does. Too bad Trump is scum.
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Was it illegal when Clinton received information from a foreign government?
 
apdst said:
The Steele Dossier came from the Russians.
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Then why is it called the Steele dossier? Wouldn't it be called the Russian dossier? Did Hillary pay the Russians for it?
 
iguanaman said:
LOL There were no criminal acts in any of the hacked emails. It was not blackmail material.
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From those emails we know Hillary did send classified information to people not authorized to see it via an unsecured email server, this is a crime, it isn't blackmail material because it was revealed.
Besides the deal was made with the Trump campaign.
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Please tell us any of the terms of that deal; what did the Russian government offer and what did Trump promise in return?
The over 50 Russian contacts were not coincidental and neither was the lying about those contacts by Trumps people..and Trump of course.
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Sure, Jared acknowledged they had a disproportionate volume of Russians buying condos, this was about 30 years ago, when the Soviet Union was collapsing, corrupt figures who were liquidating State assets were trying to get their ill-gotten gains out as quickly as possible, I don't know how much due diligence it is reasonable to expect a seller to make about an interested buyer, I'd expect the seller would want to close the deal, try not to find anything suspicious. Now, three decades later we know many important authorities in Russia, even Putin, were involved in the transfer of State factories, mines and other installations for a pittance to individuals who've now become affluent oligarchs, how much of what was going on back then was known to Trump and his real estate brokers? With the furor over Hillary's loss we now have Democrats presuming all dealings with Russians hide some criminal conduct, a reasonable person would deny they knew he was dealing with a Russian (never showed me his passport, paid in dollars, said he was from Coney Island...).
Do you have a explanation for all those lies or the attempt to secretly lift Russian sanctions right after Trumps inauguration?
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I'm not clear on this attempt to lift sanctions, the impression I get is that Trump is harsher on the Russians than what the left contends. Flynn's conversations with Sislak were not about lifting sanctions, they were about keeping Russia from retaliating for Obama's mass deportation of about 35 Russians (said to be diplomats) because Obama was told they'd been interfering with the elections.

The questions I ask myself I need to have answered objectively with verifiable evidence.
 
Plus Ultra said:
From those emails we know Hillary did send classified information to people not authorized to see it via an unsecured email server, this is a crime, it isn't blackmail material because it was revealed.

Please tell us any of the terms of that deal; what did the Russian government offer and what did Trump promise in return?

Sure, Jared acknowledged they had a disproportionate volume of Russians buying condos, this was about 30 years ago, when the Soviet Union was collapsing, corrupt figures who were liquidating State assets were trying to get their ill-gotten gains out as quickly as possible, I don't know how much due diligence it is reasonable to expect a seller to make about an interested buyer, I'd expect the seller would want to close the deal, try not to find anything suspicious. Now, three decades later we know many important authorities in Russia, even Putin, were involved in the transfer of State factories, mines and other installations for a pittance to individuals who've now become affluent oligarchs, how much of what was going on back then was known to Trump and his real estate brokers? With the furor over Hillary's loss we now have Democrats presuming all dealings with Russians hide some criminal conduct, a reasonable person would deny they knew he was dealing with a Russian (never showed me his passport, paid in dollars, said he was from Coney Island...).

I'm not clear on this attempt to lift sanctions, the impression I get is that Trump is harsher on the Russians than what the left contends. Flynn's conversations with Sislak were not about lifting sanctions, they were about keeping Russia from retaliating for Obama's mass deportation of about 35 Russians (said to be diplomats) because Obama was told they'd been interfering with the elections.

The questions I ask myself I need to have answered objectively with verifiable evidence.
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LOL Trump's attempt to complete his deal with Putin by relaxing Russian sanctions was clear enough to Congress that they hurriedly passed a bill to stop him from doing it. You really don't have a clue do you? Flynn lied to the FBI about discussing sanctions with Russia and that got him fired too.
 
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