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LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***[W:1213]

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

I know plenty of 20 year olds that are not that mature or sensibel. Hell I know 30 year olds that never grew up. Unless someone has a mental illness, at 17 they know right from wrong, period.
Sure, and there are plenty of teenagers who do mature quickly.
As for teachers getting involved. They used to when I was growing up.
It doesn't seem they are involved enough, maybe they don't get as involved as they did when you were growing up?

Better parenting is another possible answer, but who dares suggest parents should teach their kids to take responsibility, have respect for others, be considerate, learn from their mistakes and try to do better?

I'm just looking for answers that are a bit more sophisticated than just "ban all guns".
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Canada has effective gun control.....and lots of guns

Really? Maybe you should move there then...

Crime rates in Canada have been on a long decline but gun-related homicides and gun violence have increased.
Toronto, Canada's largest city, has seen a steady increase in gun violence, with 392 shootings in 2017.

Canada's latest gun control efforts doesn't seem much different than ours:
They include tougher background checks, including screening people with a history of violence.

Proposed measures also include making retailers keep records of gun inventories and sales and giving police access to the records when warranted

We already have tough background checks, and gun stores are required to keep and to eventually turn over to the feds their records when requested. Grant it, more funding is probably needed for the bureau of the ATF to improve their system but what gov. bureau doesn't need more funds?

Canada introduces tighter gun control measures - BBC News
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

You should have read my entire post, as well as Lursa's post which was quoted in my post, and then you would have understood what you were "responding to". Then you wouldn't have said something so off the wall.

I did read it and I responded to it.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

I think you're on to something there -- we're actually "creating them" and I think (just my opinion) it's due to some of the crap that's going on in public schools. We've gotten to the point, in many schools, where the entire school revolves around the athletes. That's where the money goes (in my town, the varsity B-ball players get their own parking spaces closest to the school), and kids who don't make the sport-cut are nobody, even if they're lots brighter (and they usually are). Everything's geared around sports and all the rest of the kids have to spend their days in the shadows.

I agree with what Lursa said--"we need to FIX the PROBLEM: males that cant handle rejection, failure, resentment, disappointment, jealousy, etc. We need to figure out how and why our society is now creating so many of theses losers. That is what they are: losers. In the past, losers grew up and often had the last laugh...most of these kids arent of low intelligence. This new set of losers now seems to get older but *not grow up* and then we end up with the mass shooters who seem to have exactly the same issues and motives."

But I would be very surprised if even at your school, those who don't play sports are all "nobodies" who are all languishing "in the shadows." If there are no other activities--band, art, FFA, science/robotics, debate, dance, etc.--then maybe your school district and PTO need to consider these as outlets for personal expression and school-social enjoyment (and stop that crap with the parking spaces). Here is a list of the clubs at Santa Fe High School, and there is even a magic club: http://www.edlinesites.net/files/_x...45a49013852ec4/2013_-_2014__Student_Clubs.pdf

I think that's it more than actual "bullying." These losers get the idea that they want to take down the ones who are at the top of the food chain -- make 'em pay -- and then they see all the attention other shooters get and the idea grows from a molehill to a mountain of revenge.

There is always going to be a "food chain"; this is human nature. Put a group of toddlers together and see what happens. The problem is the idea that others need to be taken down and made to pay with their lives, the self-entitlement that allows a person to depersonalize others to the extent that they are capable of taking their lives.

Personally, I'd get rid of school sports (not athletics, just sports) and move competitive teams over to community recreation. That'd not only break the "jock clique" it'd also stop cheer-leading, and seriously, can anything be more demeaning to women than to think it's an honor to cheer for males? I mean -- really!

I was a cheerleader and didn't find it demeaning at all. I also cheered at girls' events. I'm wondering if you have a personal story behind your view of jocks and cheerleaders. They aren't all or mainly dumb.

Yes, people who can't deal with criticism and rejection become society's losers, and we have an over-abundance of them. But, let's stop the public school caste system that allows them to rise in the first place. Let's focus once again on academics.

Heck, I'd even be in favor of school-issued uniforms, just because I've seen children bullied because their parents didn't have the money to buy them the name-brand clothes that some of the kids wore.

Accept that there will always be a "food chain" or "caste system" or "pecking order," and not just in schools, but also in every workplace. I'm all for focusing on academics, and school uniforms are tremendous levelers. But you aren't going to change natural human organizational patterns. There are natural followers and leaders. There will always be someone smarter, prettier, or more talented than you. Sometimes, you will fail. Often, it's in the trying that you truly succeed. But you don't get to kill people because you aren't being appreciated the way you believe you should be. Let's teach this.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

I did read it and I responded to it.

You didn't, because if you had read it, you would have known we were discussing drivers. No, we don't put old people and blind people in prison in order to keep them out of cars.

Just admit you didn't know what was being discussed and move on.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***

It is a good thing he was captured alive so that they can better understand his motives and mental state.

Do you suppose our illustrious congresscritters and other leaders will construct legislation that will compensate for his motives and mental state?

Considering that it is already illegal for someone in his mental state to buy guns, and it is already illegal for adults and parents to leave their firearms unsecured, what more do you see as being the "magic formula" with legislation to prevent these things?
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

So, the guns aren't the problem?

The problem really is ineffective gun laws. We call that a gun problem but the problem really is the laws.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

The problem really is ineffective gun laws. We call that a gun problem but the problem really is the laws.

Laws banning guns, you mean?
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Sure, and there are plenty of teenagers who do mature quickly.

No argument from me there.

It doesn't seem they are involved enough, maybe they don't get as involved as they did when you were growing up?

Better parenting is another possible answer, but who dares suggest parents should teach their kids to take responsibility, have respect for others, be considerate, learn from their mistakes and try to do better?

I'm just looking for answers that are a bit more sophisticated than just "ban all guns".

I think classroom size, no real form of discipline for the kids, parents blaming teachers for problems the kids developed at home. Those are just a few things off the top of my head from when I was a teacher. Fortunately I am a large male, so I could at least get some respect from even the hard cases. The female teachers do have it just a little tougher in that respect. I have seen large younths trying to intimidate smaller female and male teachers. It's a shame what is going on in our schools.

It's not all the parents and kids either. Teachers bare some of the blame. As do school administrators and politicians. The chain of custody goes a long way.

Not trying to be a misogynist but we also desperately need more male teachers for k-12. We are treating our little boys like little girls in school. We have no good roll models for boys.

Inner city children are graduating high school and can't even read a paragraph and tell you what it's about. They don't know how to make a resume or even dress for an interview. We are sending them out unprepared for life. Then we wonder why they want attention and pick the most horrible way to get it.

I don't want to see any guns banned either. Until we actually try to address the larger societal problems. Be ready for more of the same.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

OHMIGAWD....

You are literally clueless...arent you?

Parkland Florida...the shooter used 10 round magazines...not high capacity magazines. Columbine HS...the HIGHEST capacity rifles used was a Hi Point 995 Carbine...a 9mm pistol caliber rifle with a 9 round magazine. 9. The shooters also used double barrel shotguns and handguns.

See...this is the problem. You prattle on about **** you dont know about and then wonder why people oppose calls to ban guns and pass new laws.

Oh what do we have here? Another firearms expert apparently. The Parkland shooter did use 10 round magazines. But not because he didn't possess high capacity magazines, but rather because he apparently couldn't fit those into his duffel bag. Police and other spokespersons have said that it was fortunate that he was using 10 round magazines because those several brief pauses to reload allowed for several students to have an opportunity to escape they would not otherwise have had if he had been using high capacity magazines. So those 10 round magazines did help to lower the casualty count.

But you still have to hurry because of the assault rifle pistol grip forward of the stock and just behind the trigger allows for one to be able to continuously hold the weapon easily in the ready position while simultaneously depressing the quick release to drop the magazine and simultaneously reach with other hand for the next magazine. With a little practice you wouldn't even need to look down at all at your weapon. So reloading on assault style rifles is very quick and easy. If they didn't have that pistol grip reloading would be more difficult and likely cause the shooter to use both hands on the ejection and bring his eyes down off his quarry in order to manipulate his weapon. Plus the more times a shooter is forced to manipulate his weapon such as reloading it. The greater the likelihood is that he may have a malfunction eventually as apparently what happened with the Parkland shooter.

The type of ammo he used probably helped to somewhat reduce the number casualties. Seeing as though his main goal apparently was to maximize the body count I would bet that he was using the lighter 40 to 55 grain soft-tip/frangible .223 bullets that are designed to rapidly expand and fragment into shards to maximize their cavitation damage potential instead of the heavier 60-70 grain FMJ ball ammo or 5.56 NATO. Which have greater penetrating power. Because at one point he apparently tried to shoot out an upper floor window so that he could rain fire down upon those students that had manage to get outside. But the ammo he was using apparently didn't have enough penetrating power to overpower the safety glass.



Going up against a active shooter is no picnic no matter what type of firearms are being used. But I'll tell you what, if that is what I have to do I would very much prefer to go up against someone who is armed with a shotgun or a handgun than someone who is armed with an assault rifle. Your chances are much better against a shotgun or handgun. Also a handgun or shotgun against an assault rifle is not a fair fight either.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

You didn't, because if you had read it, you would have known we were discussing drivers. No, we don't put old people and blind people in prison in order to keep them out of cars.

Just admit you didn't know what was being discussed and move on.

You said:

If someone is dangerous, there should be protections in place to protect society from that person.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Bottom right, "Multi-Quote This message". Or copy/paste from one Reply With Quote to another.



That's a separate sentence, right?

Yeah I tried that, but the problem I was having after that was when I would reply to another post the same quotes I had multi-quoted before kept coming up. Wasn't sure what was going on with that and the only way I could get it to stop was to close out the window and reopen it again. So if you could explain to me finer points of using that code I would appreciate it
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

You said:

If someone is dangerous, there should be protections in place to protect society from that person.

Lursa said:

So by that same conclusion, why are these people still allowed to drive?


I said to Lursa:

They shouldn't be allowed to drive. Just like exceedingly old and blind people shouldn't be allowed to drive, either.

If someone is dangerous, there should be protections in place to protect society from that person.

Don't interject yourself into a discussion if you don't understand what two other posters are discussing.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Oh what do we have here? Another firearms expert apparently. The Parkland shooter did use 10 round magazines. But not because he didn't possess high capacity magazines, but rather because he apparently couldn't fit those into his duffel bag. Police and other spokespersons have said that it was fortunate that he was using 10 round magazines because those several brief pauses to reload allowed for several students to have an opportunity to escape they would not otherwise have had if he had been using high capacity magazines. So those 10 round magazines did help to lower the casualty count.

But you still have to hurry because of the assault rifle pistol grip forward of the stock and just behind the trigger allows for one to be able to continuously hold the weapon easily in the ready position while simultaneously depressing the quick release to drop the magazine and simultaneously reach with other hand for the next magazine. With a little practice you wouldn't even need to look down at all at your weapon. So reloading on assault style rifles is very quick and easy. If they didn't have that pistol grip reloading would be more difficult and likely cause the shooter to use both hands on the ejection and bring his eyes down off his quarry in order to manipulate his weapon. Plus the more times a shooter is forced to manipulate his weapon such as reloading it. The greater the likelihood is that he may have a malfunction eventually as apparently what happened with the Parkland shooter.

The type of ammo he used probably helped to somewhat reduce the number casualties. Seeing as though his main goal apparently was to maximize the body count I would bet that he was using the lighter 40 to 55 grain soft-tip/frangible .223 bullets that are designed to rapidly expand and fragment into shards to maximize their cavitation damage potential instead of the heavier 60-70 grain FMJ ball ammo or 5.56 NATO. Which have greater penetrating power. Because at one point he apparently tried to shoot out an upper floor window so that he could rain fire down upon those students that had manage to get outside. But the ammo he was using apparently didn't have enough penetrating power to overpower the safety glass.



Going up against a active shooter is no picnic no matter what type of firearms are being used. But I'll tell you what, if that is what I have to do I would very much prefer to go up against someone who is armed with a shotgun or a handgun than someone who is armed with an assault rifle. Your chances are much better against a shotgun or handgun. Also a handgun or shotgun against an assault rifle is not a fair fight either.
This is so sad its embarrassing.

You want to make an argument not on what he used but what he could have used. Ban high cap magazines...because...he didnt use them! And yeah...I'm SURE thats JUST what that little ****ing twist was doing. I'm sure he was sitting down calculating bullet velocity and load.

getda****outtaheah. You are embarrassing yourself trying to un-**** your previously presented ridiculous argument and just making yourself look more ridiculous.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

What part of this...

I mean seriously the price of freedom has always been high. We as Americans learned this during the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WWI, WWII and many criminal and terrorist acts over the years. I am not putting down England in any way. They however do not have the same population make up etc. So it's easy for people like you to sit back and armchair quarterback. - Black Dog

Do you need explained in detail?

We are discussing school shootings in here, are we not? So your post is implying that these school shootings is a part of the cost of freedom because according to you there isn't really much we can do about it without risking a curtailment of that freedom.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Laws banning guns, you mean?

Restricting guns to only people that should have them
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:




I said to Lursa:



Don't interject yourself into a discussion if you don't understand what two other posters are discussing.

If you can't defend it, don't post it.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Yeah I tried that, but the problem I was having after that was when I would reply to another post the same quotes I had multi-quoted before kept coming up. Wasn't sure what was going on with that and the only way I could get it to stop was to close out the window and reopen it again. So if you could explain to me finer points of using that code I would appreciate it

That rarely happens to me. Maybe someone knows more.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Oh what do we have here? Another firearms expert apparently. The Parkland shooter did use 10 round magazines. But not because he didn't possess high capacity magazines, but rather because he apparently couldn't fit those into his duffel bag. Police and other spokespersons have said that it was fortunate that he was using 10 round magazines because those several brief pauses to reload allowed for several students to have an opportunity to escape they would not otherwise have had if he had been using high capacity magazines. So those 10 round magazines did help to lower the casualty count.

But you still have to hurry because of the assault rifle pistol grip forward of the stock and just behind the trigger allows for one to be able to continuously hold the weapon easily in the ready position while simultaneously depressing the quick release to drop the magazine and simultaneously reach with other hand for the next magazine. With a little practice you wouldn't even need to look down at all at your weapon. So reloading on assault style rifles is very quick and easy. If they didn't have that pistol grip reloading would be more difficult and likely cause the shooter to use both hands on the ejection and bring his eyes down off his quarry in order to manipulate his weapon. Plus the more times a shooter is forced to manipulate his weapon such as reloading it. The greater the likelihood is that he may have a malfunction eventually as apparently what happened with the Parkland shooter.

The type of ammo he used probably helped to somewhat reduce the number casualties. Seeing as though his main goal apparently was to maximize the body count I would bet that he was using the lighter 40 to 55 grain soft-tip/frangible .223 bullets that are designed to rapidly expand and fragment into shards to maximize their cavitation damage potential instead of the heavier 60-70 grain FMJ ball ammo or 5.56 NATO. Which have greater penetrating power. Because at one point he apparently tried to shoot out an upper floor window so that he could rain fire down upon those students that had manage to get outside. But the ammo he was using apparently didn't have enough penetrating power to overpower the safety glass.

Going up against a active shooter is no picnic no matter what type of firearms are being used. But I'll tell you what, if that is what I have to do I would very much prefer to go up against someone who is armed with a shotgun or a handgun than someone who is armed with an assault rifle. Your chances are much better against a shotgun or handgun. Also a handgun or shotgun against an assault rifle is not a fair fight either.


The 1 or 2 seconds in between changing out the 10 round magazines would have made almost no difference. Considering the body count I would say it did not matter at all.

Whether it be a pistol grip, thumbhole or regular stock makes no difference in load time. All the pistol grip does is give you a slightly more stable fring platform, maybe.

Here is a Ruger Mini 14. Fires exactly the same round and uses high capacity magazines as well.

View attachment 67233333

This is an AR-15 with a pistol grip. No difference.

View attachment 67233334

Reloading ANY magazine feed semi auto is fairly easy and quick. That is the whole idea behind having a magazine vs a clip or hand load.

This is obviously a statement by someone who knows little to nothing about weapons; The greater the likelihood is that he may have a malfunction eventually as apparently what happened with the Parkland shooter. Yes because the Parkland shooter had a malfunction, it must be a problem with all semi auto rifles. I am sorry but your statement is absolutely not true.

Now your ammo information while in general is actually correct. The hurricane windows would not have shattered no matter which ammo he used as they could not shatter them. They found 16 holes in the windows and they did not shatter.

What do you know about going up against an active shooter??? Nothing. Your information is dangerous and wrong.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Your obliviousness is even more embarrassing. Having 10 round magazine instead of high capacity and the ammo did make a difference.

Nikolas Cruz's gun may have jammed during Parkland school shooting | Miami Herald

A source not authorized to speak on the record confirmed to the Herald that Cruz struggled with his gun during the onslaught, either due to the weapon jamming or because he fumbled trying to reload it............Several state legislators who visited the school with crime-scene investigators said they learned from police that Cruz’s rifle was not top-of-the-line, perhaps explaining the malfunction.

The “weapon and bullets were not high quality and were breaking apart,” one of the legislators, state Sen. Lauren Book, D-Plantation, told the Herald.

Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said...........Sen. Marco Rubio had hinted last week that Cruz’s weapon malfunctioned.

“I believe that there will be evidence that at a key moment in this incident, three or four people — three or four people might be alive today because of something that this deranged killer did, had to do,” Rubio said at a nationally televised town hall with CNN last week.

Jim Defete
@Defete
An official briefed on the shooting investigation tells @CBSMiami the carnage could have been far worse. Investigators believe self-confessed gunman Nikolas Cruz planned on using a vantage point on the third-floor stairwell on the west side of the building to shoot at students...

4:45 PM - Feb 27, 2018
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

We are discussing school shootings in here, are we not? So your post is implying that these school shootings is a part of the cost of freedom because according to you there isn't really much we can do about it without risking a curtailment of that freedom.

I have already addressed this in another post. If you feel different that's fine. It only makes your posts look stupid.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

You got a very relevant answer.

It pointed out the hypocrisy of restricting their 2A rights and yet allowing them to endanger the general public much more on a daily basis.

How about you tell me why it should ONLY apply to guns, if it is meant as a valid safety concern?

I think what I am asking you is very clear.... very direct .... very straight forward .... and gets to the heart of the issue: do you want people with identified mental problems making them less than of sound mind owning guns?
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Your obliviousness is even more embarrassing. Having 10 round magazine instead of high capacity and the ammo did make a difference.

Nikolas Cruz's gun may have jammed during Parkland school shooting | Miami Herald

None of that says anything about the magazine size making any discernible difference. It was the poor quality of the ammunition and rifle. LMAO!

Even your own references say you are wrong.
 
Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

I think what I am asking you is very clear.... very direct .... very straight forward .... and gets to the heart of the issue: do you want people with identified mental problems making them less than of sound mind owning guns?

Answer my question first please. To make sure there's no hypocrisy....or divulge if there is.
 
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