LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***[W:1213]

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:

High cap mags arent going anywhere, they'd just get them on the black market...only 'criminals' will have high cap magazines.

There are plenty in circulation now. I can also tell you why that's proposal has the potential for real harm for the law-abiding but doubt you're interested in that.

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The Parkland shooter used 10 round magazines...not a single high cap magazine was used. He reloaded multiple times. Sandy Hook...same thing...of course it didnt matter because Law Enforcement waited 20+ minutes to respond and he could have been firing a single round weapon and reloaded as often as he liked. In Texas a 6 round handgun and 5 round shotgun were used. In Columbine, Harris and Kleibold used a sawed off 50 year old dbl barrel shotgun...2 rounds, a pump shotgun, a hi point carbine...9 rounds, along with a Tec 9 9mm handgun. MOST of the people shot were with shotguns. Reloading was not an issue because the victims were seated or prone.

ALL of the guns they used were bought legally by people who then gave them to Harris and Kleibold as straw purchases...the purchasers were not punished. Background checks were done. Mental health screenings...irrelevant.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Atomic Kid said:

Your views are based on talking points of the far right that are purposely misleading and biased. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/same-girl-crying-now-oregon/



https://www.factcheck.org/2018/02/no-crisis-actors-parkland-florida/

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Speaking of dishonest, where in did I mention crisis actors? No where, not once, never had pushed that. So, you're again, wrong and off base. I'm afraid you can't handle this conversation.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:

That stuff is fine and I'd add more to resolve bullying, but we need to FIX the PROBLEM: males that cant handle rejection, failure, resentment, disappointment, jealousy, etc.

We need to figure out how and why our society is now creating so many of theses losers. That is what they are: losers. In the past, losers grew up and often had the last laugh...most of these kids arent of low intelligence. This new set of losers now seems to get older but *not grow up* and then we end up with the mass shooters who seem to have exactly the same issues and motives.

Let's face it...there are probably hundreds of thousands of these losers in our society and even tho they're not blowing away people, they're damaging society from whereever they are: they are negative, bitter, people that will take out their misery on their girlfriends, wives, kids, dogs, people in traffic (road rage?), at work, etc et c etc. We're only noticing the ones that get *publicly and massively violent.*

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I wouldn't say it's males per say, but rather how we're raising males right now.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:

It's a freakin' headache....it's easy to make math mistakes. I do, I've always been lousy at math.

Just because someone has chosen to have someone with more experience handling their financial affairs, which get complicated with retirement funds, health insurance, other public assistance that must be accounted for, etc etc etc. is no reason to believe they cant function just fine in society. Many have been having family members or paying for that assistance pre-SS.

If we assume like you do, we should be removing their driving privileges too. Should that be done? I mean, they are way more likely to be out on the roads, making quick decisions, than needing their firearms daily.

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then you expect us to believe that someone who cannot be trusted to handle their own financial affairs can be trusted to competently wield a loaded gun

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***

justabubba said:

what is your solution to prevent future shootings

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Whatever tricks are in the book used to carry out one of these High School invasions, should be looked at individually in every case, and law enforcement or the governing bodies that be, need to nip it in the bud and induce laws to put them in check on a case by case study.

In this case, of course, the crime was carried out with weapons that were not being very well secured to prevent being stolen and used in a crime. So, where are you going to go, to prevent this from happening? You go directly at the source of those weapons, and punish those who so carelessly secured those weapons out of harms way.

And so, in this case, the weapons used in the crime came from another family member.

Unfortunately, in the gun-worshipping state of Texas, the only laws on the books for your weapon being used in a crime due to a lack of effort to secure that weapon, is like a slap on the wrist, or basically the same fine as a traffic ticket.

So, federal laws must be put in place where states, are too irresponsible to insure laws are in effect to actually protect the public, and prevent incidents exactly like the one we have here where an unsecure gun is easily picked up in the home and used to carry out a crime with it.

In this case, the parent owner of the gun should be charged with involuntary manslaughter as he was totally careless in allowing his unsecured weapons to be used to commit murder.

If a parent or anyone owning a gun chooses not to be responsible with the ownership of his guns, then the Federal government will make them responsible by enforcing new laws, and holding them responsible for the crimes committed with those said weapons.

Thank You very much, but this is not Rocket Science- it's holding people who want guns to be responsible with those guns, once they own them.





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Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:

That stuff is fine and I'd add more to resolve bullying, but we need to FIX the PROBLEM: males that cant handle rejection, failure, resentment, disappointment, jealousy, etc.

We need to figure out how and why our society is now creating so many of theses losers. That is what they are: losers. In the past, losers grew up and often had the last laugh...most of these kids arent of low intelligence. This new set of losers now seems to get older but *not grow up* and then we end up with the mass shooters who seem to have exactly the same issues and motives.

Let's face it...there are probably hundreds of thousands of these losers in our society and even tho they're not blowing away people, they're damaging society from whereever they are: they are negative, bitter, people that will take out their misery on their girlfriends, wives, kids, dogs, people in traffic (road rage?), at work, etc et c etc. We're only noticing the ones that get *publicly and massively violent.*

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I Agree, 100 %. I have have said the same thing many times. We need to impliment good security in our schools AND start dealing with the WHY these sorts of tragic acts happen. It would seem like simple Common Sense, that is if the actual goal is the safety of our current and future school children.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

No. You removed the BB code so I would not be notified, just like you did this time.

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I'm not doing anything surreptitious. I don't know what the BB code even is or how it's used. So how would I know how to remove it? Plus what difference does it make anyway? You can follow along in this thread just as easily as I or anyone else can or can even simply click on my member name and see all my posts in this thread and any other thread. Seems to me you don't appear be having any trouble in finding my replies. So where is this paranoia of yours coming from?

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

justabubba said:

then you expect us to believe that someone who cannot be trusted to handle their own financial affairs can be trusted to competently wield a loaded gun

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Yes. You know as well as anyone the military drafted people who had a 3rd grade school level. They gave them weapons and asked them to fight. Many of them could not even balance a checkbook. They could however knock a fly off a hill at 300 to 500 yards depending on the service.

So gonna have to disagree here. The ability to balance a checkbook has nothing at all to do with firearm ownership, or in this case the ability to use a firearm.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:

I'm interested in the answer to that question too.

And then we can apply it to deaths on our roads. And then see what additional safety measures we can take to prevent them.

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There are literally countless safety measures in place, and constantly being updated, from testing cars and drivers, speed limits, car design, road design, and more towards reducing death on the roads. Any regulatory improvements in gun safety are blocked at every turn. "They're taking our guns!"

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:

It's a freakin' headache....it's easy to make math mistakes. I do, I've always been lousy at math.

Just because someone has chosen to have someone with more experience handling their financial affairs, which get complicated with retirement funds, health insurance, other public assistance that must be accounted for, etc etc etc. is no reason to believe they cant function just fine in society. Many have been having family members or paying for that assistance pre-SS.

If we assume like you do, we should be removing their driving privileges too. Should that be done? I mean, they are way more likely to be out on the roads, making quick decisions, than needing their firearms daily.

Click to expand...

I have seen some of the cases where people deemed incompetent to manage funds are truly incompetent and really should not have access to firearms. Ive also seen cases where people at the VA have sent letters to newly retired soldiers that have been diagnosed with PTSD that have been told that they will need to have assistance with managing their funds in order to receive cash benefits. We have warned Soldiers...be careful when you go to the VA on just how much of your 'rights' you are willing to sacrifice, because with that statement of financial incompetence WILL come a statement requiring a relinquishing of firearms rights.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...cting-veterans-gun-rights-without-due-process

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***

fishnthec said:

Whatever tricks are in the book used to carry out one of these High School invasions, should be looked at individually in every case, and law enforcement or the governing bodies that be, need to nip it in the bud and induce laws to put them in check on a case by case study.

In this case, of course, the crime was carried out with weapons that were not being very well secured to prevent being stolen and used in a crime. So, where are you going to go, to prevent this from happening? You go directly at the source of those weapons, and punish those who so carelessly secured those weapons out of harms way.

And so, in this case, the weapons used in the crime came from another family member.

Unfortunately, in the gun-worshipping state of Texas, the only laws on the books for your weapon being used in a crime due to a lack of effort to secure that weapon, is like a slap on the wrist, or basically the same fine as a traffic ticket.

So, federal laws must be put in place where states, are too irresponsible to insure laws are in effect to actually protect the public, and prevent incidents exactly like the one we have here where an unsecure gun is easily picked up in the home and used to carry out a crime with it.

In this case, the parent owner of the gun should be charged with involuntary manslaughter as he was totally careless in allowing his unsecured weapons to be used to commit murder.

If a parent or anyone owning a gun chooses not to be responsible with the ownership of his guns, then the Federal government will make them responsible by enforcing new laws, and holding them responsible for the crimes committed with those said weapons.

Thank You very much, but this is not Rocket Science- it's holding people who want guns to be responsible with those guns, once they own them.





.

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Who is going to enforce those laws that if the State is against them?
Notice how you jumped from locking up guns to protect children in a home to locking up all guns for societies safety, that old slippery slope....

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Atomic Kid said:

I'm not doing anything surreptitious. I don't know what the BB code even is or how it's used. So how would I know how to remove it? Plus what difference does it make anyway? You can follow along in this thread just as easily as I or anyone else can or can even simply click on my member name and see all my posts in this thread and any other thread. Seems to me you don't appear be having any trouble in finding my replies. So where is this paranoia of yours coming from?

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This statement is a lie. Funny how in your responses to everyone else, they have this... [QUOTE=Renae;1068545391, in the reply, except the replies you made to me.

So that is a lie, period.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

VanceMack said:

I have seen some of the cases where people deemed incompetent to manage funds are truly incompetent and really should not have access to firearms. Ive also seen cases where people at the VA have sent letters to newly retired soldiers that have been diagnosed with PTSD that have been told that they will need to have assistance with managing their funds in order to receive cash benefits. We have warned Soldiers...be careful when you go to the VA on just how much of your 'rights' you are willing to sacrifice, because with that statement of financial incompetence WILL come a statement requiring a relinquishing of firearms rights.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...cting-veterans-gun-rights-without-due-process

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They do not want to talk about the actual details of the failure of the law, rhetoric screamed about allowing crazies to buy guns is far easier, even though it is already against the law for them to do so.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Renae said:

Speaking of dishonest, where in did I mention crisis actors? No where, not once, never had pushed that. So, you're again, wrong and off base. I'm afraid you can't handle this conversation.

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You didn't say 'crisis actors' specifically but that is what is what you are implying. Are you claiming that you are 'technically' not being dishonest by saying these kids are allowing themselves to be used to forward someone else's political agenda and not specifically referring them as being 'crisis actors'? Doesn't that essentially amount to being the same thing?

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Atomic Kid said:

You didn't say 'crisis actors' specifically but that is what is what you are implying. Are you claiming that you are 'technically' not being dishonest by saying these kids are allowing themselves to be used to forward someone else's political agenda and not specifically referring them as being 'crisis actors'? Doesn't that essentially amount to being the same thing?

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Not at all. You are creating what's known as a strawman. You obviously are incapable of understanding what's written.

What I am saying, and I'll try to keep this simple and easy, so you can keep up is that these kids have been abused by people that don't have their best interest at heart. They aren't "Crisis Actors" as that is a completely different angle and one I have not subscribed to. This is more akin to an ambulance chasing lawyer getting a client to sue Nissan cause they were in an accident and the driver of the nissan was drunk.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***

Thoreau72 said:

It is refreshing to see thoughtful people acknowledging that they have no particular ideas as to how to stop this.

Was this one a copy-cat sort of crime?

If the criminal sanction failed this time, how can it be applied differently to change human behavior?

I haven't been reading any details, but I wonder if this young shooter has a medical history for ADHD or any other condition in which psychoactive substances were administered to him?

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It is a good thing he was captured alive so that they can better understand his motives and mental state.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***

Desert Storm said:

What in the hell are you going on about??

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I suspect that, if you have actually read through the entire thread you will have seen what I was talking about, but I'll be a bit more explicit.

The mantra of BOTH sides in the debate is "Whenever something like this happens it is absolutely essential that we not bother to look at any possible causes beyond our concerns with 'Gun Control' and any possible excuse to take the discussion off onto any totally irrelevant issue is highly welcomed.".

PS - I'm sorry that you didn't read as far as my "[There will be a brief pause for nicotine and caffeine replenishment while I gather the strength to remove my tongue from my cheek.]" bit.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***

devildavid said:

It is a good thing he was captured alive so that they can better understand his motives and mental state.

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Besides, now that he's "famous" he's going to find SOMEONE who will have sex with him.

Isn't that the whole idea of shooting school kids?

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Lursa said:

Stop being coy. If someone has had any mental flags in their previous medical records...no matter what the status, they can be denied their 2A rights. I dont know if there is any process for them to challenge this. It's pretty ****ty, even if there is, since we're talking about generally lower socio-economic demographics if they depend on the $. It's discrimination without any due process.

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You want people who are not of sound mind to have guns?

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS***[W:13]***

Black Dog said:

Scores of dead school children? Where the hell did you come up with that nonsense? School shootings do not even make up 1% of gun crime according to the FBI. The lions share belong to black kids being killed in the inner city by gangs. Where is your outrage for that?

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You essentially making that equation by posting the 'price freedom is high' in a thread about a school shooting and now you are deflecting by bringing up poor black kids that really doesn't have a thing to do with this discussion. So who is it that is straying away from the subject of the thread now?

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Black Dog said:

This statement is a lie. Funny how in your responses to everyone else, they have this...

Renae;1068545391 said:

It's not a lie. It's just your paranoia. Whenever you see a post like the one I made to Renae it's because I selected "Reply with Quote" I don't know to make those kind of posts where you use a quote or multiple quotes a poster had made another post of theirs that isn't within the one to which I'm responding. So I copy and paste those quotes into a quote box and that's all I'm doing. Good Lord if you're this paranoid I hope you aren't keeping any guns around.

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Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

haymarket said:

You want people who are not of sound mind to have guns?

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So by that same conclusion, why are these people still allowed to drive?

Lursa said:

It's a freakin' headache....it's easy to make math mistakes. I do, I've always been lousy at math.

Just because someone has chosen to have someone with more experience handling their financial affairs, which get complicated with retirement funds, health insurance, other public assistance that must be accounted for, etc etc etc. is no reason to believe they cant function just fine in society. Many have been having family members or paying for that assistance pre-SS.

If we assume like you do, we should be removing their driving privileges too. Should that be done? I mean, they are way more likely to be out on the roads, making quick decisions, than needing their firearms daily.

Click to expand...

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Renae said:

I wouldn't say it's males per say, but rather how we're raising males right now.

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I didnt write all males, I specified a subgroup by a characteristic inability to handle certain feelings.

But it is almost exclusively males.

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

OK, so bullying and rejection were factors in this case.

You want to go after bullies? Knock yourself out, as there are laws already on the books in most communities to deal with that .

Who wasn't bullied in High School? Who wasn't rejected by someone in High School?

The point is, this shooter chose to kill people in dealing with his bullying and rejection problems and he used illegal home made explosive devices, and his dad's guns to carry out his crimes with obvious easy access to them.

So really, the parties that allowed easy access to exploding materials to this minor, and those that allowed access to the guns used to harm others are equally to blame for these murders, shootings, and explosions that killed these innocent people.

Stop defending these irresponsible people! They must be held responsible!

Trust me, if the legal courts won't handle this, the civil courts will!

Re: LIVE COVERAGE: Active shooter in custody at Santa Fe HS

Manc Skipper said:

There are literally countless safety measures in place, and constantly being updated, from testing cars and drivers, speed limits, car design, road design, and more towards reducing death on the roads. Any regulatory improvements in gun safety are blocked at every turn. "They're taking our guns!"

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And yet, vehicle deaths by far occur more commonly and in higher numbers than from guns. By far. And the number of pedestrian/cyclist deaths is rising.

Which car safety regulations or measures prevent use of the vehicle for its stated purposes? Speed limits do....but you didnt even address what I proposed. Why not? Why not 35 mph nationwide?

Now, I've listed elsewhere many of safety measures integrated into guns, mandatory and optional. What would you like to see added? Tell me some safety measures. And remember, guns have a purpose(s) that cannot be restricted, otherwise they no longer serve their purpose(s).