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Kanye West suggests African-American slavery was 'a choice'

There is........ if you have been taken by a kind master!

That's kinda like saying there is nothing "fortunate" about being crippled (even if you have a loving family who can afford to make arrangements that you'd still be fine, even after they're dead!) Compare that to an impoverished cripple who has no one!
Wouldn't you say the first one is fortunate to have someone?

The only way your analogy works is if you compare it to a person being crippled by a family member, and the family member has the only cure for their disability but refuses to give it to them. That is not kindness. That is inhumane.


Who wants to be a slave? No one. Same as no one would want to be crippled!
We're talking about a situation that's already there. How you live through it, is the difference.

Dumb analogies are dumb.
 
If the choice is running with the good chance of being caught and killed, is a valid choice....I guess so. But for some, it wasn't. Especially if you had kids.

Whatever the reason....it's still a choice.

Anyway, some blacks with kids wouldn't have wanted to have their kids growing up as slaves (especially under a cruel master), and that would've been incentive to flee to the North.

We're talking freed slaves here.......who'd still chosen to stay on.
 
The only way your analogy works is if you compare it to a person being crippled by a family member, and the family member has the only cure for their disability but refuses to give it to them. That is not kindness. That is inhumane.


Dumb analogies are dumb.

It's dumb to you....obviously I know why, based on your own analogy. You don't get it. :lol:

You're determined to see things through your glasses.....what more can I say?
Facts contradict you!
 
Whatever the reason....it's still a choice.

Anyway, some blacks with kids wouldn't have wanted to have their kids growing up as slaves (especially under a cruel master), and that would've been incentive to flee to the North.

We're talking freed slaves here.......who'd still chosen to stay on.




I misunderstood. I didn't realize you meant 'freed' slaves.
 
That's not what was said. No, it's not fortunate to be a slave. It was fortunate if you were a slave and had a 'master' that treated you as not a slave. Big difference

That would be like saying Elizabeth Smart was fortunate to have a 'humane' kidnapper who fed her and gave her clothes and shelter. It would be a ludicrous statement to make.
 
You’ve basically just condoned dictators actions. Oh hey they didn’t kill you so it’s fortunate you had a dictator that didn’t kill you.


That's kind of a stretch to spin that into 'she condoned dictators actions'. Hyperbole ruins a good debate.
 
It's dumb to you....obviously I know why, based on your own analogy. You don't get it. :lol:

You're determined to see things through your glasses.....what more can I say?
Facts contradict you!

What facts have contradicted me? All you've presented are conjectures and apples/oranges analogies.
 
That would be like saying Elizabeth Smart was fortunate to have a 'humane' kidnapper who fed her and gave her clothes and shelter. It would be a ludicrous statement to make.

No, it's not. Smart was the victim of a crime, held against her will. She wasn't free - she didn't have any choice.

We're talking about freed slaves who'd chosen to stay on in the south.
 
That would be like saying Elizabeth Smart was fortunate to have a 'humane' kidnapper who fed her and gave her clothes and shelter. It would be a ludicrous statement to make.

As opposed to one that beat, raped and starved her daily? Some would say she was fortunate.

Was she fortunate to have been kidnapped, no! And tosca1 isn't inferring that way of thinking.
 
What facts have contradicted me? All you've presented are conjectures and apples/oranges analogies.

Don't forget that the controversial statement made by West is about "choice."


Why did blacks stay on in the south?


All of these people, and their descendants, continued to live in slave-holding Virginia, even during the Civil War. (Their part of Virginia would join the Union as the state of West Virginia in the middle of the war, but they had no way of knowing this when they decided to remain there, rather than flee.) Why didn’t my great-great-great-great-grandparents run away to safety in the North, rather than remain in the Potomac Valley region of slave-holding western Virginia, about 30 miles, as a matter of fact, from where I was born? Free Negroes headed north just as soon as they could, right? Didn’t my ancestors’ decision to stay put in the Confederacy run counter to what we all understood about the history of slavery?

I turned to Ira Berlin’s book for answers, and I was astonished to learn that my ancestors’ presence in the South and their decision to stay put during the war were not as uncommon as I had imagined.


Don’t believe it? You can now fact-check the numbers yourself on the U.S. Census Bureau website. Amazing, right?
Even if, as Berlin illustrates in a companion table, 100 percent of the African Americans living in the North were free in 1860 (compared to only 6.2 percent in the South), it still is a puzzle to figure out why the majority lived below the Mason-Dixon Line. And here’s the kicker: At no time before the Civil War (at least not after the first U.S. Census was taken in 1790 and future states were added) did free blacks in the North ever outnumber those in the South!
Why Did Free Blacks Stay in the South? African American History Blog | The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross


If freed slaves had decided to stay on - clearly, that's their choice!


You're the one making conjectures by saying all slave-owners are the same!
 
No, it's not. Smart was the victim of a crime, held against her will. She wasn't free - she didn't have any choice.

We're talking about freed slaves who'd chosen to stay on in the south.

This thread is about Kanye's comments about slaves. He said if they were imprisoned for 400 years then it must have been a choice.
 
Don't forget that the controversial statement made by West is about "choice."

Stop posting the same article over and over.
 
Kanye West suggests African-American slavery was 'a choice' - BBC News



Maybe, just maybe, people will finally start to recognize that idiots like Kanye (and his entire family, in-laws included) need to be completely ignored and forgotten.

I just can't believe how many friggin people continue to think this moron is relevant to anything.

Oh come. This is really ridiculous.

Look, I'm sick to death of some blacks who still blame slavery for their troubles. I reject vehemently the idea that we owe today's blacks reparations for what happened to their ancestors hundreds of years ago. I think the concept of slavery is shameful, no matter who was enslaved and by what people and when it happened, whether it was the blacks in this country or the Jews in Egypt or whatever.

But to say it was a choice is absolutely offensive to anyone who has a brain inside his or her head. No rational thinking person accepts this idiot's claim.

Kanye West isn't relevant, and shouldn't be relevant. He takes the victim mentality to the opposite extreme which is just as harmful to the country as those who continue playing the victim card.

If this guy is now a Republican, it's another reason for me to go screaming for the hills to disassociate myself.
 
What facts have contradicted me? All you've presented are conjectures and apples/oranges analogies.

'This is surreal': descendants of slaves and slaveowners meet on US plantation

Ross moved from South Carolina to what was then the Mississippi territory in 1808, accompanied by a large group of mixed-race slaves who were said to have been a source of discomfort for their former owners. Also in the group were several free black people who had fought alongside Ross in the revolution and would gain title to their own land in the territory.

After wresting his plantation from the wilderness, Ross set about correcting what he saw as the worst ills of human enslavement. He never sold any of his slaves and taught them to read and write, which was illegal at the time.


Then, out of concern for what would happen to them when he and his similarly sympathetic daughter were gone, he stipulated in his will that after her death the plantation should be sold and the proceeds used to pay the way for those who chose to emigrate to Mississippi-in-Africa, the west African colony set up by the American Colonization Society, a group of abolitionists and slave owners who shared a belief that the removal of free black people might reduce rising tensions over abolition.


The resulting saga encompasses heroes and villains in two Mississippis, on two continents.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/16/us-slavery-descendants-plantation-mississippi
 
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As opposed to one that beat, raped and starved her daily? Some would say she was fortunate.

Was she fortunate to have been kidnapped, no! And tosca1 isn't inferring that way of thinking.

She was raped. Probably beaten, too.

See what kind of reaction you'll get walking up to a victim of a horrible crime and stating, "Well aren't you fortunate at least that X didn't happen to you!"
 
Stop posting the same article over and over.

Then, don't ask about them. Read.
You asked about facts. Answers won't change, you know.
 
Then, don't ask about them. Read.
You asked about facts. Answers won't change, you know.

There is nothing in that article that contradicts anything I said. Have you ever tried quoting something? People in college do it all the time.
 
If you can't see the point - I think this topic is over your head.


Bye.

I don't think you realize what Kanye said. Try doing a little research.
 
And it was the unknown of whether the freedom would last. That doesn’t make them worse people for fearing that or make it consensual, nor does it make slavery a good thing.

EH???? What on earth are you on about?
 
As opposed to one that beat, raped and starved her daily? Some would say she was fortunate.

Was she fortunate to have been kidnapped, no! And tosca1 isn't inferring that way of thinking.

Who in any alternate universe would say that Elizabeth Smart was fortunate? Elizabeth Smart was raped constantly by her kidnapper, sometimes multiple times per day. She was chained like an animal. She was forced to drink alcohol and take drugs to lower her resistance. She was forced to eat garbage. She was starved.

She didn't try to escape from him when she had the chance. It was by force that the police took her away from her kidnapper.

How the hell you could say that some people would say she's "fortunate" is astounding.
 
The Democrat party was the original party of slavery. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. It was the Republicans who fought to free the slaves from the Democrats. The Democrats never forgave the Republicans for that and still hold a grudge. To many Democrats, the black job growth, induced by Trump's policy, is history about to repeat itself. This may free blacks from voting Democrat.

I was watching a series about the Civil War. In discussing southern slavery, not all the Democrats were harsh slave owners. Many Democrats, at the time, like General Stonewall Jackson, were deeply religious, and believed that the blacks could not fend for themselves, being out of their native element. As good Christians, many believed it was their duty to help care for the blacks. To some of the more religious southerns, slavery was a way to look out for them. It provided jobs, to keep busy, as well as room and board. The same would be done for their own children.

After the civil war, the harsher end of the slavery spectrum ended by law. But for many well meaning Democrats, the idea of taking care of the blacks, now out of the context of slavery, perpetuated. For example, during segregation years, the whites would provide the blacks their own restaurants, theaters, water fountains, etc. In harsher times none of this would have been available. To some, it was a way to share culture with blacks.

Trump, by thinking in terms of jobs, is allowing the blacks to have the means, to make their own choices. If you are on welfare, your choices are limited and the choices that remain, come with a price. Trump by giving them jobs, to make their own money, opens options beyond any obligation to big government or the Democrats. This goes against the plan of the Democrats, who are now resurrecting the lynch mob, less it go too far.

A good analogy is the mother who takes care of her child, too much, to where the child never learns to fend for themselves. She does everything for him or her. On the one hand, this makes life easy for the child and makes them feel special. On the other hand, it weakens the child, so they can't develop self sufficiency through their own actions. If someone always cooked for you and served you, you will never learn to feed yourself. The mother thinks she is doing good because her deeds treat the child as a VIP. But deep down, she also knows this is making her child dependent on her, so he/she will have a hard time leaving her.

Trump is like a dad, who wants the child to leave the house, so he can have his wife back. He gets the child a job, so he has his own money, with no strings attached. The child can buy things even the dad may not agree with, since he is his own man. He then encourages him to move out and make a life of his own. Mother is furious at dad, and starts to guilt trip her son and using threats of disowning him/her if they leave. Kanye West left the house and mom is furious at him. How dare you leave me you ungrateful so and so.

Kanye West understands the dilemma of the black inner child, who feels a long historical connection to nurturing mom; kind Democrats. But he also understands that adults need to learn to stand on their own, even if mom; Democrats, says she will disown you, if you leave. The child feels sentimental attachment to mom, but he also feels the call of their own independence. They are stuck in the middle between mom and dad. The difference now, is that dad Trump has made an impact on the child, and many of the black inner children are toying with the idea of independence due to their new found means. Mom is besides herself, because some of the black vote, may be up for play, in the 2018 midterms and beyond.
 
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Kanye West doesn't care about black people.

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