• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A mountaintop greenhouse grows in coal country

OldFatGuy said:
This is editorial journalism I can respect. People doing right, with an American "Can do" motivation for public good.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/28/a-mountaintop-greenhouse-grows-in-coal-country/
Click to expand...

Setting aside the ignorance usually demonstrated on topics like this, I live at about 4500 ft. in the high desert of Oregon. I use greenhouses, not as large as the one being proposed by the article for sure, with great success. In fact, if one wanted to be educated on the subject that really should look at some of the proposals being put forth due to the growing population, the droughts around the world, and the use of grains to feed livestock. Greenhouse gardening, especially if it is hydroponic based, can produce 15 times that of open gardening per square foot. Additionally, it can produce three crops a year instead of the usual one, or maybe two if your in Yuca.

BTW, the "wealth" is still being stolen from the poor by the right wing Americans. And I saw no where that anyone said coal miners did not have gardens.
 
itsforthekids said:
So you think that none of the coal miners of the last 2 centuries grew vegetables?
Click to expand...

Where did I or anything in the link say any such thing?

Are you too dense to understand the value of a positive job creating investment in coal country, where massive job loss has destroyed the local economy?
 
camlok said:
The "can do" BS all came about and thrived when the US was at its height stealing the wealth from the poor around the world. For how much some of you folks seem to care about "the poor", it only seems to be a terribly self centered concern.
Click to expand...

Good to know you can't do. Now I can write you off a waste of my time. Buh-bye
 
Old Trapper said:
Setting aside the ignorance usually demonstrated on topics like this, I live at about 4500 ft. in the high desert of Oregon. I use greenhouses, not as large as the one being proposed by the article for sure, with great success. In fact, if one wanted to be educated on the subject that really should look at some of the proposals being put forth due to the growing population, the droughts around the world, and the use of grains to feed livestock. Greenhouse gardening, especially if it is hydroponic based, can produce 15 times that of open gardening per square foot. Additionally, it can produce three crops a year instead of the usual one, or maybe two if your in Yuca.

BTW, the "wealth" is still being stolen from the poor by the right wing Americans. And I saw no where that anyone said coal miners did not have gardens.
Click to expand...

This is not a thread about partisan politics. It is about building a better future.

Greenhouses can make a positive contribution for America's kitchens. They can also create employment where employees have lost their jobs for many reasons, including the collapse of local economies in coal country. I've personally invested in urban greenhouse farming right here in NYC, taking place in formerly abandoned warehouse in Brooklyn. The results have been superb, creating needed jobs, and producing high quality produce for local tables. I see this as a positive action for those who will benefit. Combining modern self sufficient energy technology, modern recycling technology (inclusive of water) with new and old methods of greenhouse food production is a win win effort.

Why whiners feel the need to whine when witnessing quality actions is beyond understanding or acceptance.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Where did I or anything in the link say any such thing?

Are you too dense to understand the value of a positive job creating investment in coal country, where massive job loss has destroyed the local economy?
Click to expand...

Coal mining is what will bring the livelihood back, not greenhouses. the pantsuit was going to bring their livelihood back with solar panels...lol
 
camlok said:
The "can do" BS all came about and thrived when the US was at its height stealing the wealth from the poor around the world. For how much some of you folks seem to care about "the poor", it only seems to be a terribly self centered concern.
Click to expand...

"Poor around the world" had wealth? Why didn't they use their "wealth" to become unpoor? lol
 
itsforthekids said:
Coal mining is what will bring the livelihood back, not greenhouses. the pantsuit was going to bring their livelihood back with solar panels...lol
Click to expand...

Then you personally better find another use for coal. The days for coal fueling America are ending and over.
 
itsforthekids said:
Coal mining is what will bring the livelihood back, not greenhouses. the pantsuit was going to bring their livelihood back with solar panels...lol
Click to expand...

Solar panels are creating jobs, coal mines are losing them. Of course, fools don't understand that as technology improves changes are made. For instance, as more fracking occurs more natural gas is supplied, and more power is created. As automation improves manual labor in the coal mines disappears, and has been since the 80's. Coal mining has destroyed more land then it could possibly replace, and polluted more streams, and rivers, then most any other energy source. Live with it. Cleaner, and better, days are coming.
 
itsforthekids said:
"Poor around the world" had wealth? Why didn't they use their "wealth" to become unpoor? lol
Click to expand...

If you had any kind of knowledge you would know that the wealth never got to the poor. It was stolen from them before they got it. Too hard for you to understand though.
 
Old Trapper said:
If you had any kind of knowledge you would know that the wealth never got to the poor. It was stolen from them before they got it. Too hard for you to understand though.
Click to expand...

Wealth isn't the issue, living is.
 
Old Trapper said:
Solar panels are creating jobs, coal mines are losing them. Of course, fools don't understand that as technology improves changes are made. For instance, as more fracking occurs more natural gas is supplied, and more power is created. As automation improves manual labor in the coal mines disappears, and has been since the 80's. Coal mining has destroyed more land then it could possibly replace, and polluted more streams, and rivers, then most any other energy source. Live with it. Cleaner, and better, days are coming.
Click to expand...

I understand the solar business, since I had a lot of experience in it. But that aside, do you have any idea how dirty the production of solar panels is? Not to mention that the typical life of a solar panel is 25 years, with an annual degradation of roughly 1% annually? It's not a very efficient way to produce electricity. It's extremely expensive and very few systems would be sold or installed if not for rebates, renewable energy credits and tax credits. Don't get me started on wind power...
 
Old Trapper said:
If you had any kind of knowledge you would know that the wealth never got to the poor. It was stolen from them before they got it. Too hard for you to understand though.
Click to expand...

That statement doesn't even come close to making sense.
 
It’s going to be funny when people figure out where the chemicals they use in their “high-tech” greenhouse are derived from.

I’m no fan of burning coal myself, but these chemical based “farmers” and their end result are giving people diseases and killing us with every bite. There is no winner in this story.
 
NoParty said:
It’s going to be funny when people figure out where the chemicals they use in their “high-tech” greenhouse are derived from.

I’m no fan of burning coal myself, but these chemical based “farmers” and their end result are giving people diseases and killing us with every bite. There is no winner in this story.
Click to expand...

Look up "clamatos." Greenhouse grown, grown in mulch sterilized in high heat ovens, a layer of lime, another of corn silk, a layer of a mineral mix harvested from wheat chaff, another of alfalfa stalks, natured by earthworms, the same earthworms found on farms around the world, which are essential for almost all agriculture, and filtered recycled water. Clamatos, originally known as Liberty Tomatoes, an heirloom medium sized tomato, about the size of a golf ball, was abandoned by the industry because it didn't fit the tomatoes marketing image. It has a green and brown skin. As compared to garden grown tomatoes, gardens in soils polluted by naturally or not, by heavy metals, untreated animal excrement, rainwater carrying a gamut from antibiotics, fossil fuel emissions, chemical pollutant residues from our rivers where they were dumped as industrial byproducts, and so forth, which is better for human consumption? Same with our "normal" land grown farms, enhanced by chemical fertilizers for centuries.

Choose your poison or don't eat. The bell tolls for you, and the sky is falling.

Examine the FDC guidelines for insect parts in food products. Hey, free extra protein.
 
itsforthekids said:
I understand the solar business, since I had a lot of experience in it. But that aside, do you have any idea how dirty the production of solar panels is? Not to mention that the typical life of a solar panel is 25 years, with an annual degradation of roughly 1% annually? It's not a very efficient way to produce electricity. It's extremely expensive and very few systems would be sold or installed if not for rebates, renewable energy credits and tax credits. Don't get me started on wind power...
Click to expand...

What part of the fossil fuel industry has not been subsidized for the past 100+ years, and still is? Hydropower? Nuclear power? If not for the tax payer no electric consumption of any kind would have been made possible. And while fossil fuel systems last a long period of times the maintenance necessary more the makes up for the life span of a solar panel. And then there is the annual cleanup necessary from burning fossil fuels especially coal.

There are pros and cons to any form of energy production. To forget the one to castigate the other makes no sense. And the cost of solar, and wind, has consistently been decreasing.
 
NoParty said:
It’s going to be funny when people figure out where the chemicals they use in their “high-tech” greenhouse are derived from.

I’m no fan of burning coal myself, but these chemical based “farmers” and their end result are giving people diseases and killing us with every bite. There is no winner in this story.
Click to expand...

It is even going to be funnier when people find out how little they know about hydroponic gardening:

Simply Hydroponics - Simply Hydroponics - hydro or org

https://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/homegrown-hydroponics-zmaz77mazbon
 
Last edited:
itsforthekids said:
I understand the solar business, since I had a lot of experience in it. But that aside, do you have any idea how dirty the production of solar panels is? Not to mention that the typical life of a solar panel is 25 years, with an annual degradation of roughly 1% annually? It's not a very efficient way to produce electricity. It's extremely expensive and very few systems would be sold or installed if not for rebates, renewable energy credits and tax credits. Don't get me started on wind power...
Click to expand...

How long has it been since you were in the industry? Relatively recent development of photovoltaic carbon (read artificial diamonds) based cells by joint research between Stamford and Yeshiva Universities, produce 40 times as much electricity as silicon based photovoltaic cells, are already in production at 1/50 the of the cost of as silicon based cells, with the resulting solar panels having a life expectancy greater than 100 years. Contained production systems segregated and recycle all potential pollutants. The new Apple, Inc. "spaceship" campus has been built with these panels installed, it is completely power self sufficient, selling excess power on the grid below the costs of any other electricity costs. Technology marches on. I read all about this in Wired magazine online, Gizmodo, Scientific American and the NYT online. Not necessarily the best scientific sources, but understandable for a layman like myself.
 
How much do these jobs pay? I'm all for finding new ways to create jobs in Appalachia, but the problem isn't just how to get any jobs here. The problem is how do you get decent jobs here. Coal mining has been on a long slow decline for decades, but they pay very well. If you want to "win over" Appalachians you need to provide a truly viable alternative. Unless this guy is paying 60k a year plus benefits. If that's the case more power to him.
 
NoParty said:
You completely missed the point, it is not the method of farming, it is if the company uses chemicals that are harmful to us and the environment.
Click to expand...

No, you missed the intent of my response. There is no need to use harmful chemicals, and as the article I posted states the plant does not know the difference between an artificial nutrient, and an organic nutrient. No hydroponic gardener is going to use harmful pesticides, or herbicides.
 
MrPeanut said:
How much do these jobs pay? I'm all for finding new ways to create jobs in Appalachia, but the problem isn't just how to get any jobs here. The problem is how do you get decent jobs here. Coal mining has been on a long slow decline for decades, but they pay very well. If you want to "win over" Appalachians you need to provide a truly viable alternative. Unless this guy is paying 60k a year plus benefits. If that's the case more power to him.
Click to expand...

So, in your opinion no job is better then a low paying job. And I bet you complain about welfare too. Or even minimum wage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom