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Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump[W:895]

Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Vague? Gee, I wonder in whose interest it would be to discredit Trump? Go ahead take a wild guess. In our two party system you have a 50/50 chance of being right. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure that one out.

Yes...vague.

Don't you think the judge might have been interested in the FBI using a dossier to justify wiretapping a Presidential candidate and his campaign that was contracted for and paid for by the opposing candidate and her Party?

By withholding that information, the FBI helped Hillary and wasn't forthcoming to the judge. If that's not outright illegal, it should be.
 
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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Yes...vague.

Don't you think the judge might have been interested in the FBI using a dossier to justify wiretapping a Presidential candidate and his campaign that was contracted for and paid for by the opposing candidate and her Party?

By withholding that information, the FBI helped Hillary and wasn't forthcoming to the judge. If that's not outright illegal, it should be.

Do you think that Federal Judges, especially those whom serve on FISA courts, are stupid?
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Do you think that Federal Judges, especially those whom serve on FISA courts, are stupid?

No. They also can't read minds.

The FBI is required, by law, to provide all information pertaining to the issue. They didn't. Deliberately.

Someone needs to go to jail for that crime.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

No. They also can't read minds.

The FBI is required, by law, to provide all information pertaining to the issue. They didn't. Deliberately.

Someone needs to go to jail for that crime.

Read minds? LOL! While i'm sure they would have no trouble reading yours I am more than confident that the FBI answered all the judges's questions to the satisfaction of the court. And really any judge who lacks that kind of perception shouldn't be a judge on any type of court. So please, just stop being ridiculous.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

That's what y'all always say, but I'll remind you that Nunes uncovered massive corruption at the highest levels of the FBI. Four members of upper management were fired, or demoted and transferred because of the information he discovered.

Please document your claim. The history indicates no one was impacted directly by anything Nunes did, said, wrote, or claimed.
In fact, Robert Mueller, McCabe, and the FBI IG actually did what you are crediting Nunes with doing. Nunes performed only in the role of Trump cheerleader
and useful idiot.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/...ice-department-national-security-adviser.html
Aide Ousted From White House Reemerges
at Justice Dept.
By ADAM GOLDMAN APRIL 11, 2018
WASHINGTON — A former American intelligence official who came under intense
scrutiny during a stint at the White House last year is returning to government as the
national security adviser to Attorney General Jeff Sessions, according to a person
familiar with the decision.
The official, Ezra Cohen-Watnick, will play an important role at the Justice
Department, advising Mr. Sessions on counterintelligence and counterterrorism.
Mr. Cohen-Watnick is known to be hawkish on Russia and China, believing the
intelligence community needs to take a more aggressive approach in countering their
activities. Both countries conduct wide-ranging espionage in the United States that
targets commercial and government secrets. Mr. Sessions is broadly viewed in the
Justice Department as lacking expertise in the area.
The Justice Department declined to comment.
Mr. Cohen-Watnick, 31, served briefly at the start of the Trump administration
as the senior director for intelligence for the National Security Council, overseeing
covert action and other intelligence programs. He was brought on by Michael T.
Flynn, President Trump’s first national security adviser. But some former officials
criticized Mr. Cohen-Watnick, a former clandestine officer in the Defense
Intelligence Agency, as too young for the job, which is usually filled by C.I.A.
veterans.

Mr. Cohen-Watnick was ousted in August 2017 as part of changes in the White
House, one of several appointees of Mr. Flynn who were removed by his
replacement, Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster.
National Security Council aides usually draw little public scrutiny, but Mr.
Cohen-Watnick was swept up in the tumult of early 2017 when Mr. Trump accused
the previous administration, without evidence, of wiretapping his phones at Trump
Tower.
Mr. Trump’s allegations were bolstered by Representative Devin Nunes of California,
the Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, who said he had
evidence that Mr. Trump’s communications were incidentally swept up in
surveillance of foreigners by American spy agencies.
Mr. Nunes did not divulge the sources of this information, but American
officials later told The New York Times that Mr. Cohen-Watnick, at the instruction of
two senior White House officials, helped print intelligence reports that later served
as Mr. Nunes’s proof.
The revelation showed that Mr. Nunes and one of the aides, Michael Ellis, a
lawyer in the White House Counsel’s Office, were using intelligence to advance
political goals.
It also undercut Mr. Nunes’s claims that his information came from
whistle-blowers, and revealed that he was eager to aid the Trump administration
when he was conducting what was supposed to be an independent investigation of
Russian election meddling.
Mr. Cohen-Watnick did not provide the intelligence reports to Mr. Nunes.
The episode prompted Mr. Nunes to recuse himself from the committee’s
inquiry, which devolved into partisan bickering and has effectively ended.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ec10f30fb0406a5a12341/?utm_term=.d377f9c363ec
The Daily 202: Paul Ryan’s party is over
By James Hohmann April 12

-- Trump personally ordered DOJ to hire former White House aide Ezra Cohen-Watnick, who was forced out of his job in August following reports he improperly showed classified documents to Nunes. Bloomberg News's Chris Strohm and Jennifer Jacobs report:

“Trump had thought Cohen-Watnick began working at the Justice Department in the fall, but a confidant told the president during a recent phone call that he was not ... Trump was displeased, and told staff to make it clear he wanted Cohen-Watnick on the job as soon as possible. Cohen-Watnick was recently asked again to join the Justice Department and accepted ... His rehiring drew criticism from Democrats, who speculated Cohen-Watnick may attempt to interfere in [Mueller’s investigation].”
 
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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Please document your claim. The history indicates no one was impacted directly by anything Nunes did, said, wrote, or claimed.
In fact, Robert Mueller, McCabe, and the FBI IG actually did what you are crediting Nunes with doing. Nunes performed only in the role of Trump cheerleader
and useful idiot.

Nah, Nunes was operating in the public sphere, bringing attention to their version of events, rather than letting FBI leaks determine the narrative. Why do you think anyone paid attention to the OIG report in the first place?
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Read minds? LOL! While i'm sure they would have no trouble reading yours I am more than confident that the FBI answered all the judges's questions to the satisfaction of the court. And really any judge who lacks that kind of perception shouldn't be a judge on any type of court. So please, just stop being ridiculous.

"answered all the judges's (sp) questions"??

Now you think it was the judge's responsibility to ask who paid for the dossier? Well hell, you probably think the FBI should just say they want a warrant and not say anything unless the judge asks them a question, right?

LOL!!
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

We ALREADY know how and why the Mueller investigation started

It was started by Rosenstein and it does not target Trump. Mueller publicly stated this.

You know this subject matter better than I--what role did all this play in acquiring the FISA warrant?
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

I didn't say they had to ask for permission. I said they had to justify their investigation.

Please don't make **** up.

Well at the first two weedstocks they were a constant presence on a side road overlooking the campground always watching and recording license plate numbers.

They were unneeded for security as we had hired the sheriff's Dept for traffic and security outside of camp.

The FBI spying on American citizens is a common practice.

Do you honestly think they had any mind off of probable cause to bug John Lennon's phone and have him under 24 hr surveillance?

And that was all before the "patriot act" ( which gave us the visa system) gave LE nearly unlimited powers of Investigation.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Well at the first two weedstocks they were a constant presence on a side road overlooking the campground always watching and recording license plate numbers.

They were unneeded for security as we had hired the sheriff's Dept for traffic and security outside of camp.

The FBI spying on American citizens is a common practice.

Do you honestly think they had any mind off of probable cause to bug John Lennon's phone and have him under 24 hr surveillance?

And that was all before the "patriot act" ( which gave us the visa system) gave LE nearly unlimited powers of Investigation.

So...you just want to complain about the FBI keeping an eye on people? Hey...you are preaching to the choir. But it goes much further than the FBI. For example, the NSA vacuums up ALL communications. Doesn't matter who, what or where.

However, "using" that information is another matter. There are safeguards in place to see that the info isn't used without legal justification. And that's where we find ourselves today: Information was improperly used for political purposes against a Presidential candidate. That happens to be illegal and the perpetrators will soon pay the piper.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

So...you just want to complain about the FBI keeping an eye on people? Hey...you are preaching to the choir. But it goes much further than the FBI. For example, the NSA vacuums up ALL communications. Doesn't matter who, what or where.

However, "using" that information is another matter. There are safeguards in place to see that the info isn't used without legal justification. And that's where we find ourselves today: Information was improperly used for political purposes against a Presidential candidate. That happens to be illegal and the perpetrators will soon pay the piper.



That is your wet dream that it was illegal. Several prosecutors and three judges disagree with you.

This is just cult trumps last desperate hope, but this one last straw is not out of reach but it is nonexistent.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

That is your wet dream that it was illegal. Several prosecutors and three judges disagree with you.

This is just cult trumps last desperate hope, but this one last straw is not out of reach but it is nonexistent.

I don't know, exactly, what you are referring about the "Several prosecutors and three judges" thing. shrug...

However, we've already seen several high ranking FBI officials fired, retired or resigned. We've more reassigned. We have a couple referred for criminal prosecution and more likely to come. And this is all just for stuff done in 2016 and 2017.

Believe me, it's going to get much worse for a lot of prior Obama administration people...before it gets better.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

The Nunes memo is irrelevant to this thread's topic.

Seems pretty relevant to me, but perhaps we have different ideas of relevance.

The illegal use of information to start the Trump investigation was the concern that prompted Nunes to demand the EC documents. And yes, he acknowledged that official intelligence was not in them. He then expressed his intention to further investigate to find out more about the info in the EC. Where it came from and who provided it. He had some speculations...State Department, Blumenthal, etc...but he didn't say any of that was certain.

Yes, that's what he said.

Unlike you, though, I don't care what the Fox lady was trying to spin. Talking potato heads are not my concern.

Indeed, I do care. The spread of misinformation and misunderstanding in our society has reached 1984 levels, or near enough. Partisans can no longer agree, most of the time, on what the facts are--and what Bartiromo did is a classic example of why such is the case. Notice that both left and right engage the process; conservatives in this thread were just as ready to decry the fact that "no official intelligence was used to start the investigation!" as liberals were to call Nunes a lying scumbag who shouldn't be believed. My hope is that none of them actually watched the interview and hence were making assumptions about what was going on...but I suspect that's probably not true in all the present cases.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

I don't know, exactly, what you are referring about the "Several prosecutors and three judges" thing. shrug...

However, we've already seen several high ranking FBI officials fired, retired or resigned. We've more reassigned. We have a couple referred for criminal prosecution and more likely to come. And this is all just for stuff done in 2016 and 2017.

Believe me, it's going to get much worse for a lot of prior Obama administration people...before it gets better.



The firings were for political purposes, ie obstruction.

The demotions we're just for appearances for the investigation. They were done purely so their is as little ammo for people like you to try to spread disinformation trying to discredit the investigation.

The charges are just red herrings/Scooby snacks for cult trump, with a bit desperation thrown in.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

I don't know, exactly, what you are referring about the "Several prosecutors and three judges" thing. shrug...

However, we've already seen several high ranking FBI officials fired, retired or resigned. We've more reassigned. We have a couple referred for criminal prosecution and more likely to come. And this is all just for stuff done in 2016 and 2017.

Believe me, it's going to get much worse for a lot of prior Obama administration people...before it gets better.

The prosecutors and judges would be the ones involved in the approval of the fisa warrants.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Seems pretty relevant to me, but perhaps we have different ideas of relevance.

The Nunes memo dealt with FISA abuse...which first happened in Oct 2016. This thread's topic deals with non-FISA actions that happened in Jul 2016. Two different issues.

Yes, that's what he said.



Indeed, I do care. The spread of misinformation and misunderstanding in our society has reached 1984 levels, or near enough. Partisans can no longer agree, most of the time, on what the facts are--and what Bartiromo did is a classic example of why such is the case. Notice that both left and right engage the process; conservatives in this thread were just as ready to decry the fact that "no official intelligence was used to start the investigation!" as liberals were to call Nunes a lying scumbag who shouldn't be believed. My hope is that none of them actually watched the interview and hence were making assumptions about what was going on...but I suspect that's probably not true in all the present cases.

Sorry, I don't share your heartburn over talking potato heads. I tend to just ignore them. I'm more interested in the facts presented. Perhaps you have difficulty separating the two.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

The prosecutors and judges would be the ones involved in the approval of the fisa warrants.

From released documents and other information, those prosecutors don't appear to be people who should be held up as examples of virtue or credibility. In fact, a number of them are included in those fired, retired or resigned people I mentioned.

The judges, unfortunately, appear to have been manipulated by those prosecutors.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

The firings were for political purposes, ie obstruction.

The demotions we're just for appearances for the investigation. They were done purely so their is as little ammo for people like you to try to spread disinformation trying to discredit the investigation.

The charges are just red herrings/Scooby snacks for cult trump, with a bit desperation thrown in.

The firings were for cause.

I have a different take on the demotions: These are people who are singing. In return, they get to keep a job and they'll avoid prosecution.

The charges are serious. Just ask McCabe. He lost his retirement because he lied, lied again, and again...and then he tried to blame someone else...until he finally admitted his actions and got fired for them. Now he's been referred for criminal prosecution by the DOJ OIG...and he's scrambling for money in various ways to pay for his defense. I don't think he'd call that stuff "red herrings/Scooby snacks".
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

The Nunes memo dealt with FISA abuse...which first happened in Oct 2016. This thread's topic deals with non-FISA actions that happened in Jul 2016. Two different issues.



Sorry, I don't share your heartburn over talking potato heads. I tend to just ignore them. I'm more interested in the facts presented. Perhaps you have difficulty separating the two.


There is virtually no such thing as "FISA abuse" the patriot act gave that process unlimited powers to investigate dangers to our nation. Personally I do not think the power that they have is constitutional. However in this case we would have an entire staff of Russian oporatives in our Whitehouse. As it is we have been able to thin some of the off.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

The firings were for cause.

I have a different take on the demotions: These are people who are singing. In return, they get to keep a job and they'll avoid prosecution.

The charges are serious. Just ask McCabe. He lost his retirement because he lied, lied again, and again...and then he tried to blame someone else...until he finally admitted his actions and got fired for them. Now he's been referred for criminal prosecution by the DOJ OIG...and he's scrambling for money in various ways to pay for his defense. I don't think he'd call that stuff "red herrings/Scooby snacks".

What prosecutors have been charged with anything?



Mcabe is just trump abusing his power to warn others that as the Don he demands 100% loyalty.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Please document your claim. The history indicates no one was impacted directly by anything Nunes did, said, wrote, or claimed.
In fact, Robert Mueller, McCabe, and the FBI IG actually did what you are crediting Nunes with doing. Nunes performed only in the role of Trump cheerleader
and useful idiot.

Nunes is the one that uncovered the original evidence. It was that dsclosure that got the IG involved.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Just when I think you can't sound anymore foolish, you find a way outdo yourself again.

The Nunes memo (the one that you worship as the infallible truth) outright acknowledges that it was Popadopolous that triggered the FBI probe, not the Carter Page surveillance.

Here it is in big red font, so you can't say you didn't see it.


https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4365338-Nunes-memo.html

You've stated that you've read this memo before so I can conclude at this point that you have terrible memory, you didn't actually read it, or you're just a lying hack with no shame.

Your lacking of any semblence of common sense and or objectivity doesing make me or anyone else a " lying hack "

If Papadopoulos was such a integral amd seminal figure, why did the FBI obtain 4 FISA warrants on CARTER PAGE instead of Papadopoulos ?

Why rely on the dossier at all ?

Why wasn't Papadoplous included in the EC's final JAR report ? There's zero mention of of him ? Why wasn't he part of the Intel that Clapper, Brennan and Comey used to brief Congress ?

Why hadnt Clapper heard of him ? Why did the FBI wait until January to interview him ?
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

There is virtually no such thing as "FISA abuse" the patriot act gave that process unlimited powers to investigate dangers to our nation. Personally I do not think the power that they have is constitutional. However in this case we would have an entire staff of Russian oporatives in our Whitehouse. As it is we have been able to thin some of the off.

sigh...

The FISA system has, in fact, been abused a number of times. One of which times was stopped by actions of NSA Director Rogers. The abuse happened during the Obama administration and it was stopped during the Obama administration.

Tell you what. Given your lack of knowledge, I see no point continuing this discussion.

You are dismissed.
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Your lacking of any semblence of common sense and or objectivity doesing make me or anyone else a " lying hack "

If Papadopoulos was such a integral amd seminal figure, why did the FBI obtain 4 FISA warrants on CARTER PAGE instead of Papadopoulos ?

Why rely on the dossier at all ?

Why wasn't Papadoplous included in the EC's final JAR report ? There's zero mention of of him ? Why wasn't he part of the Intel that Clapper, Brennan and Comey used to brief Congress ?

Why hadnt Clapper heard of him ? Why did the FBI wait until January to interview him ?

And why won't the guy that drunken Papa-whatshisname talked to talk to the media about it?

Video and transcript here: Did Alexander Downer meet Trump campaign aide George Papadopoulos? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
 
Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

You know this subject matter better than I--what role did all this play in acquiring the FISA warrant?

I am not clear on what you are asking about exactly.

There are two main FISA warrants that we know about -- one for Carter Page and one for Papodopoulus.

The one for Page was based on, depending on who you believe, the Steele dossier or phone calls our intelligence agencies recorded of Russians discussing his possible usefulness as an agent with connections in the Trump campaign. However, this does not seem to be what is being discussed as Nunes is talking about an investigation, beginning in the summer of 2016, into the Trumps campaign possible connections to Russians. That Page FISA warrant was not applied for until Oct 2016.

So it seems --I say seems because the op refuses to state which investigation he is talking about, though he has denied this is about the Page investigation-- that this is about the investigation that began with a warrant on Papodopoulus. That warrant was based on a report from the Australians that Papodopoulus had told an Aussie diplomat --before the hacked emails had been released by WikiLeaks-- that the Russians had damaging info on Clinton.

Basically, some people are getting worked up because the report from the Aussies is not "official intelligence, whatever that means, as if it is somehow news that the investigation was begun as a result of a tip from the Aussies.
 
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