• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

German town braces for neo-Nazi concert on Hitler's birthday

MateoMtnClimber said:
I think the only way we can drive Nazis (and all the other violent extremist groups) underground again is to make them feel uncomfortable. We can't legislate it. We can't restrict common rights. We just have to shame these people. We have to sideline the people who rationalize them and sympathize with them. We have to teach our children that violence, hate, and intolerance are bad.

That used to be normal. Yet here we are in the year 2018 with political leaders, religious leaders, community leaders, family members, friends, neighbors, and internet posters attempting to explain why some people are worse than Nazis, or at least as bad as Nazis, or that Nazis aren't a big deal in the first place. We are experiencing a level of moral relativism and of immorality that I cannot remember.

So, I will go on record as saying that Nazis are bad people and I oppose them. I won't suggest that they don't have rights to meet and express themselves, but I will definitely stand up against them. I will have conversations about the dangers of appeasement and the evils of racism and homophobia and anti-Semitism and violence. I will resist the people who claim that Nazis aren't too bad because liberals have a bias against them.
Click to expand...

As long as the argument avoids the danger of labelling everyone who dissagrees with a liberal world view as a nazi, it might work.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
I think the only way we can drive Nazis (and all the other violent extremist groups) underground again is to make them feel uncomfortable. We can't legislate it. We can't restrict common rights. We just have to shame these people. We have to sideline the people who rationalize them and sympathize with them. We have to teach our children that violence, hate, and intolerance are bad.

That used to be normal. Yet here we are in the year 2018 with political leaders, religious leaders, community leaders, family members, friends, neighbors, and internet posters attempting to explain why some people are worse than Nazis, or at least as bad as Nazis, or that Nazis aren't a big deal in the first place. We are experiencing a level of moral relativism and of immorality that I cannot remember.

So, I will go on record as saying that Nazis are bad people and I oppose them. I won't suggest that they don't have rights to meet and express themselves, but I will definitely stand up against them. I will have conversations about the dangers of appeasement and the evils of racism and homophobia and anti-Semitism and violence. I will resist the people who claim that Nazis aren't too bad because liberals have a bias against them.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Well said.
 
Athanasius68 said:
As long as the argument avoids the danger of labelling everyone who dissagrees with a liberal world view as a nazi, it might work.
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure why you would say that to me. Nazi means one thing and it's not "a person who disagrees with Mateo".
 
leekohler2 said:
Agreed. Well said.
Click to expand...

I've been accused of not responding to my own OP, i.e., how can we drive Nazis underground again, even though those same accusers can't respond to the OP in any intelligent manner themselves. So I decided to address that. I win.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
I've been accused of not responding to my own OP, i.e., how can we drive Nazis underground again, even though those same accusers can't respond to the OP in any intelligent manner themselves. So I decided to address that. I win.
Click to expand...

Steal some of their ideas. There is a growing hostility to immigration for example. Get on that bandwagon.
 
Soooohhh ... how did that neo-Nazi concert go? Many arrests? Lots of police/neo-Nazi interactions? Was a water gun used?
Was it everything the left expected?
 
Barnacle said:
Soooohhh ... how did that neo-Nazi concert go? Many arrests? Lots of police/neo-Nazi interactions? Was a water gun used?
Was it everything the left expected?
Click to expand...

The Neo Nazi Rally of Pro trump supporters in Georgia went bad for them...They were shouted down, and had their fat white asses chased out of town...A good day for Freedom
 
Saladin4 said:
The Neo Nazi Rally of Pro trump supporters in Georgia went bad for them...They were shouted down, and had their fat white asses chased out of town...A good day for Freedom
Click to expand...

Don't know what you're talking about ... :lol:
This thread is about the neo-nazi concert in a German town.

Are you lost?!?
 
Saladin4 said:
The Neo Nazi Rally of Pro trump supporters in Georgia went bad for them...They were shouted down, and had their fat white asses chased out of town...A good day for Freedom
Click to expand...

Can you link to this? Interested in reading about it.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
No, thanks. I'm not anti-immigration; and I don't borrow Nazi tactics.
Click to expand...

But see-- the problem isnt just with somebody else. The reason why these disreputable types are rising up and winning elections or seats are because the reputable parties arent responding to what people want.
There is nowhere else for otherwise decent people who have certain concerns to go.
 
Athanasius68 said:
But see-- the problem isnt just with somebody else. The reason why these disreputable types are rising up and winning elections or seats are because the reputable parties arent responding to what people want.
There is nowhere else for otherwise decent people who have certain concerns to go.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting theory that makes a lot of sense. Do you think the established political parties in Europe are as worthless as they are in the US?
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
I asked what emboldened Nazis and how to drive them back underground.
Click to expand...

Taking the wind from their sail.

But that requires a willingness to compromise with sizeable numbers of people.

If reputable parties do not adequately adress the needs of people, then the disreputable onee will fill the void.
Its no more complicated than that.

Just look at what happenned in the last UK general election. Thats the way forward.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
That would be a simpleton's view of the situation. The current American president and Brexit are effects of the problem to which I alluded, not the causes, although they do contribute to it. White nationalism is most of the problem.
Click to expand...

I think this is semi-correct. I think both Brexit and Trump are results of the issue, but I also think increased white nationalism is a result, not a cause.

I think it was triggered by immigration in Europe. In the US, it was the first black president.
Click to expand...

Again, I think you're very close on this -- the problems caused by immigration in the EU have led to groups who are now pushing against more immigration. While onlookers are seeing the response as white nationalism, it's really ethnocentrism. It's more about protecting their culture than their race, but even the protesters lack that understanding and they're gathering under a racial blanket.

The response to Obama is slightly different. When Obama was elected, he naturally wanted to bolster black confidence, but he went about it in a counterproductive way. He immediately started attacking police officers, claiming they treated blacks differently, and so strong was his resolve that he made blatant errors, such as the one with the officer and the black professor. That made officers feel isolated and then Obama's subsequent alliances, such as the one with Trayvon Martin, began to make whites in general feel isolated. His comments about "guns and bibles" further isolated fundamental gun owners. Then he went after the Confederate Flag, and the rest is history -- the nation responded by electing Trump.

But, they didn't elect Trump to oppose Obama as much as they elected him to oppose the followers of Obama, who, during Obama's term, became quite emboldened in their attacks against anyone who did not share their opinions.

That's changing now, a little bit, but it's all progress of one sort or another. We just progress in one direction, then we progress in another direction. But, we can't help but progress. I'm talking about social evolution -- not progression as the Progressives define it.

If there is a lesson to be taken from this, it is that trying to affect change by stepping on people will be resisted. Every time.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I think this is semi-correct. I think both Brexit and Trump are results of the issue, but I also think increased white nationalism is a result, not a cause.



Again, I think you're very close on this -- the problems caused by immigration in the EU have led to groups who are now pushing against more immigration. While onlookers are seeing the response as white nationalism, it's really ethnocentrism. It's more about protecting their culture than their race, but even the protesters lack that understanding and they're gathering under a racial blanket.

The response to Obama is slightly different. When Obama was elected, he naturally wanted to bolster black confidence, but he went about it in a counterproductive way. He immediately started attacking police officers, claiming they treated blacks differently, and so strong was his resolve that he made blatant errors, such as the one with the officer and the black professor. That made officers feel isolated and then Obama's subsequent alliances, such as the one with Trayvon Martin, began to make whites in general feel isolated. His comments about "guns and bibles" further isolated fundamental gun owners. Then he went after the Confederate Flag, and the rest is history -- the nation responded by electing Trump.

But, they didn't elect Trump to oppose Obama as much as they elected him to oppose the followers of Obama, who, during Obama's term, became quite emboldened in their attacks against anyone who did not share their opinions.

That's changing now, a little bit, but it's all progress of one sort or another. We just progress in one direction, then we progress in another direction. But, we can't help but progress. I'm talking about social evolution -- not progression as the Progressives define it.

If there is a lesson to be taken from this, it is that trying to affect change by stepping on people will be resisted. Every time.
Click to expand...

So then what is the cause of white nationalism being in vogue?

President Obama made white people feel isolated? That's a pile I couldn't move with a dump truck. Obama noted the obvious when he observed that black Americans get treated differently than other Americans by nearly every segment of American society, including law enforcement. He made some polarizing mistakes without a doubt, but it was the racist members of the majority that held to those unwise statements and created a victim mentality wherein white people felt "isolated" and marginalized. The first black American president was always going to be overly and unfairly criticized for his navigation of race relations, but as we have seen, he also inadvertently stirred the hornets nest of white racism and its result, white nationalism.

I don't know who you think stepped on anyone, but I can guess with reasonable confidence. For centuries now, liberalism has been a "two steps forward, one step backward" process. I think we're simply in the backward step right now, a natural correction. The age in which the current American president thrives will end. Then we can carry on as civilized people who once again do not tolerate Nazis.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
So then what is the cause of white nationalism being in vogue?
Click to expand...

I think it's more of a defense than an aggression. My sister-in-law is a staunch TX democrat and voted twice for Obama, but she cried when he want to get rid of the Confederate Flag because that's part of her ancestral heritage, and I don't know of anyone less racist than she. She works with "Helping Hands" programs, which benefit the poor, the majority of whom are black.

That's just one example that I'm personally familiar with but I've heard many more online and in articles. People being accused of racism for one reason or another, when they were never racist. I think this white nationalism is a defensive response for the most part.

President Obama made white people feel isolated? That's a pile I couldn't move with a dump truck. Obama noted the obvious when he observed that black Americans get treated differently than other Americans by nearly every segment of American society, including law enforcement. He made some polarizing mistakes without a doubt, but it was the racist members of the majority that held to those unwise statements and created a victim mentality wherein white people felt "isolated" and marginalized. The first black American president was always going to be overly and unfairly criticized for his navigation of race relations, but as we have seen, he also inadvertently stirred the hornets nest of white racism and its result, white nationalism.
Click to expand...

I understand that you see it that way, but not everyone perceives issues in the same manner. Perhaps you could try talking to those who have begun to join with the nationalist and populist ranks and ask them why they feel the way they do.

I don't know who you think stepped on anyone, but I can guess with reasonable confidence. For centuries now, liberalism has been a "two steps forward, one step backward" process. I think we're simply in the backward step right now, a natural correction. The age in which the current American president thrives will end. Then we can carry on as civilized people who once again do not tolerate Nazis.
Click to expand...

Since Nazis no longer exist, I think it's safe to say no one tolerates them.

Your "two steps forward, one step backward" idea has some merit, but not in a "liberal" vs "conservative" fashion as you seem to think but rather in an "evolution" vs "growing pains" scenario.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I think it's more of a defense than an aggression. My sister-in-law is a staunch TX democrat and voted twice for Obama, but she cried when he want to get rid of the Confederate Flag because that's part of her ancestral heritage, and I don't know of anyone less racist than she. She works with "Helping Hands" programs, which benefit the poor, the majority of whom are black.

That's just one example that I'm personally familiar with but I've heard many more online and in articles. People being accused of racism for one reason or another, when they were never racist. I think this white nationalism is a defensive response for the most part.



I understand that you see it that way, but not everyone perceives issues in the same manner. Perhaps you could try talking to those who have begun to join with the nationalist and populist ranks and ask them why they feel the way they do.



Since Nazis no longer exist, I think it's safe to say no one tolerates them.

Your "two steps forward, one step backward" idea has some merit, but not in a "liberal" vs "conservative" fashion as you seem to think but rather in an "evolution" vs "growing pains" scenario.
Click to expand...

She cried about the Confederate flag? Ok. White nationalists are racist; and they are not on defense.

I think you mean "liberal" and "conservative" in the American sense. I don't. All (most) Americans are liberal in the philosophical sense.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom