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New York seeks authority to prosecute despite presidential pardons

JANFU

JANFU

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http://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...ity-to-prosecute-despite-presidential-pardons

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman (D) on Wednesday asked state lawmakers to amend the law so that prosecutors can charge individuals who have benefitted from a presidential pardon.

New York’s existing law states that if an individual pleads guilty or is convicted of a federal crime and then is pardoned by the president, prosecutors cannot bring charges for violating state laws because of a double-jeopardy rule that stipulates a person cannot be tried for the same crime twice.
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This came as a surprise to me and I am sure many members of this board.
Do others States have such a law?
 
What's surprising is the number of people who seem to have never read The Constitution.

One can't help but wonder if they're really that ignorant, or they've just said **** it and they're going to do whatever they want.
 
apdst said:
What's surprising is the number of people who seem to have never read The Constitution.
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But there is nothing surprising about the number of people who may or may not have read the Constitution, but they PRETEND to understand it.
 
prometeus said:
But there is nothing surprising about the number of people who may or may not have read the Constitution, but they PRETEND to understand it.
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It isn't hard to understand. Here, watch:

5th Amendment

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
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The the bolded part? It's very clear it says a person can't be tried twice for the same offense.
 
Democrats are excusing throwing away the rules of our nation for any attempt to damage Trump and take him down, even if it turns out nothing illegal happened. They are completely losing their minds.
 
Not sure this will fly.

But I do wonder how far the presidential pardon can be allowed to go, before we have to change the law to restrict it further.

After a bit of search, I think it MIGHT be possible for a state to prosecute someone for a federal crime they were pardoned for, if said crime also falls under state laws.
But I'm unsure how the legal system would deal with that.

Edit: And now, having actually gone and read the article, I realize that the AG in question already thought of that, and is requesting New York remove double-jeopardy protections for those who received a presidential pardon.
[FONT=&quot]Schneiderman wrote to Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D) and leaders of the state legislature to argued that as a result of the current policy, a “strategically-timed pardon” could protect individuals who have violated New York state laws. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As a result, Schneiderman is asking that state lawmakers change the New York statute so that double-jeopardy protections do not apply to cases involving presidential pardons.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]“New York’s statutory protections could result in the unintended and unjust consequence of insulating someone pardoned for serious federal crimes from subsequent prosecution for state crimes — even if that person was never tried or convicted in federal court, and never served a single day in federal prison,” Schneiderman wrote.[/FONT]
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The Mark said:
Not sure this will fly.

But I do wonder how far the presidential pardon can be allowed to go, before we have to change the law to restrict it further.

After a bit of search, I think it MIGHT be possible for a state to prosecute someone for a federal crime they were pardoned for, if said crime also falls under state laws.
But I'm unsure how the legal system would deal with that.
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There's no way that's constitutional. The 5th Amendment says "same offense" not "same statute".
 
Changing the rules to help THE HATCHET MAN bag his prey so just so classy....
 
apdst said:
There's no way that's constitutional. The 5th Amendment says "same offense" not "same statute".
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Would federal offenses be the same as state?

I don't think it should be allowed but can see how an interpretation of the law could allow for state crimes
 
Chillfolks said:
Would federal offenses be the same as state?

I don't think it should be allowed but can see how an interpretation of the law could allow for state crimes
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A single offense can be a state crime, as well as a Federal crime.
 
apdst said:
Or, target political enemies?
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There is more and more of that....which erodes trust in government but everyone is in such a hurry to get what they want today, screw the long term consequences.

This is no different that how corporate America decided to only care about the next 5 quarters except in one case it is done for money and in the other for power.
 
The Mark said:
Not sure this will fly.

But I do wonder how far the presidential pardon can be allowed to go, before we have to change the law to restrict it further.

After a bit of search, I think it MIGHT be possible for a state to prosecute someone for a federal crime they were pardoned for, if said crime also falls under state laws.
But I'm unsure how the legal system would deal with that.

Edit: And now, having actually gone and read the article, I realize that the AG in question already thought of that, and is requesting New York remove double-jeopardy protections for those who received a presidential pardon.
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A pardon would only work if the feds convicted before the state did.

Which in the current state of affairs would require Trump to push the feds to press charges, the person plea out then receive a pardon. All before the state pressed charges and potentially convicted the person in question.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
A pardon would only work if the feds convicted before the state did.

Which in the current state of affairs would require Trump to push the feds to press charges, the person plea out then receive a pardon. All before the state pressed charges and potentially convicted the person in question.
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Not sure, but can they preemptively pardon someone for something they haven't yet been convicted of?

I recall this question occurring in recent months, in regard to an actual or potential pardon from Trump.
 
If the federal government passes matters that double as state offenses to local authorities, it is not double jeopardy IF it is done before an indictment is issued.
 
The Mark said:
Not sure, but can they preemptively pardon someone for something they haven't yet been convicted of?

I recall this question occurring in recent months, in regard to an actual or potential pardon from Trump.
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That's what Ford did with Nixon.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
A pardon would only work if the feds convicted before the state did.

Which in the current state of affairs would require Trump to push the feds to press charges, the person plea out then receive a pardon. All before the state pressed charges and potentially convicted the person in question.
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If the person in question is already under federal juridiction, it's out of the states hands.
 
The Mark said:
Not sure this will fly.

But I do wonder how far the presidential pardon can be allowed to go, before we have to change the law to restrict it further.

After a bit of search, I think it MIGHT be possible for a state to prosecute someone for a federal crime they were pardoned for, if said crime also falls under state laws.
But I'm unsure how the legal system would deal with that.

Edit: And now, having actually gone and read the article, I realize that the AG in question already thought of that, and is requesting New York remove double-jeopardy protections for those who received a presidential pardon.
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So you want one state in 50 to be able to prosecute someone twice for the same crime

Forget this set of issues...think further down the road

A democratic president pardons a man for a federal crime of drug smuggling....

Texas decides they don’t like that rule, and want to punish him....

So they bring separate charges for the same charges since he was arrested iwhile passing through Texas

Be careful what you wish for.....
 
gdgyva said:
So you want one state in 50 to be able to prosecute someone twice for the same crime

Forget this set of issues...think further down the road

A democratic president pardons a man for a federal crime of drug smuggling....

Texas decides they don’t like that rule, and want to punish him....

So they bring separate charges for the same charges since he was arrested iwhile passing through Texas

Be careful what you wish for.....
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If the person were pardoned before being found guilty, does it still amount to double jeopardy if a state court is convened?
 
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