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CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to NK: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

I'm skeptically optimistic.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

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So....you gonna remember that NK played Trump like a fiddle a few years down the road? Or are you going to pretend you never said stuff like that, and pray people didn't care enough about the knee-jerk praise to remember what you said (or pray that policies against necro'ing threads prevents you from being called out?)

NK has a history of doing this kind of thing, then changing their tune once they're in a better position.

Yes, we all are putting our own kind of faith in this. I think it will happen. If it doesn't you can use it to smack around the Trump supporters. I understand that. However the liberals have a lot to lose too. If Trump pulls this off then this entire narrative the democrats, the media, and hollywood have carefully constructed of a disastrous, chaotic Administration lead but a disaster of a human being kind of......falls apart. Even CNN will have to take 5 minutes away from the wall to wall porn star coverage to give the President credit. They can't just explain it away as a fluke.

We shall see what happens.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Jmo, but if any "peace' is achieved it will be attained by South Korea, not the US.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Yes, we all are putting our own kind of faith in this. I think it will happen. If it doesn't you can use it to smack around the Trump supporters. I understand that. However the liberals have a lot to lose too. If Trump pulls this off then this entire narrative the democrats, the media, and hollywood have carefully constructed of a disastrous, chaotic Administration lead but a disaster of a human being kind of......falls apart. Even CNN will have to take 5 minutes away from the wall to wall porn star coverage to give the President credit. They can't just explain it away as a fluke. We shall see what happens.

We shall see is a far cry from
It's funny watching the unhinged left sweat this one. Trump's about to (rightly) get some credit for ending a 55 year war.

Who's ready for this?



I remember how much fuss was raised about how the Iran deal's measures were too weak in terms of verification. I remember, further back, how NK made similar promises then teased out hope as long as it could. I know how China only wants NK to settle down and NK's leadership only wants domination over the people.

The idea that Trump calling Kim a few names and tweeting the usual bluster changed anything is ludicrous. What's happening now is happening because Kim decided it was a good time for it to happen.

In general, they wield very little power relative to us; virtually none, in fact. The only reason NK has any control is that we've been dead set against their acquiring and using nukes but knew all along it wasn't worth KW2/WWIII, and they proved it by just going and getting the nukes. Now we're going to come up with some new strategy to stop them? No. Not unless it's in China's interest.

(And don't start about tariffs. We've got the bigger economy but China has second-biggest. Either of our countries could destroy the other's economy for all intents and purposes - we only have so much leverage).
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

WOW



https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...976a82b05a2_story.html?utm_term=.d2e55c0560f4

It's funny watching the unhinged left sweat this one. Trump's about to (rightly) get some credit for ending a 55 year war.

Who's ready for this?

View attachment 67231845

That sounds incredibly childish.
I would absolutely give Donald Trump and Mike Pompeo credit where it is due.
I would also like to see the full text of the agreement, because Republicans (Nixon, Reagan) have a history of inserting poison pills in foreign policy agreements. See scuttled Paris Peace Talks and Iran Hostage negotiations.

Therefore, it's possible that the Trump administration may have inserted language which places conditions of the agreement on the outcome of either the Mueller investigation or the November mid-term elections.

If there's no such conditions baked into the agreement, and the negotiations are successful, then Mr. Trump has at least one good legacy he can be very proud of, and that the American people can be thankful for.
It is also important to remember that the Chinese president also had some very intensive talks with Kim Jong Un as well, so the credit might have to shared but not to worry, as there is more than enough to go around.

Now, let's see the full text of the agreement.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

but if it does go somewhere you will give Trump credit. yes?

It's amazing what a leader can get accomplished when he pressures the bad guys instead of apologizing to them.

No one has ever "apologized" to North Korea.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

That is progress. Doesn’t mean anything will come of it but it is further than we have been.
 
It's an interesting turn events, but without a defined strategy for what it is the US wants other than a NK without nuclear weapons it's hard to predict the outcome. I don't think Kim Jong Un is going to capitulate to US demands if they'e the ones that have been stated publicly thus far. I have more confidence in South Korean talks with North Korea than I do with this administration. Unless they have been hiding adept diplomats for the big game, I don't see where this goes.

For the last twenty-five years or so, a small group of officials from the United States and North Korea have been meeting about once or twice a year at a small nondescript office in Manhattan which has been the venue for "back channel" unpublicized talks.
Although years have gone by where little has transpired, once in a while subtle changes have arisen out of these low key and informal talks.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-korea-new-york-channel_us_59de4babe4b0eb18af05877d

I do not actually know if any of these recent unofficial and informal talks played any role in this sudden development but it is not out of the realm of possibility. Also, give some credit to the "shuttle diplomacy" role played by the unified athletes in the Winter Olympics. I am sure that also played a small part in the thaw as well.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

We shall see is a far cry from




I remember how much fuss was raised about how the Iran deal's measures were too weak in terms of verification. I remember, further back, how NK made similar promises then teased out hope as long as it could. I know how China only wants NK to settle down and NK's leadership only wants domination over the people.

The idea that Trump calling Kim a few names and tweeting the usual bluster changed anything is ludicrous. What's happening now is happening because Kim decided it was a good time for it to happen.

In general, they wield very little power relative to us; virtually none, in fact. The only reason NK has any control is that we've been dead set against their acquiring and using nukes but knew all along it wasn't worth KW2/WWIII, and they proved it by just going and getting the nukes. Now we're going to come up with some new strategy to stop them? No. Not unless it's in China's interest.

(And don't start about tariffs. We've got the bigger economy but China has second-biggest. Either of our countries could destroy the other's economy for all intents and purposes - we only have so much leverage).

Trump's actions got China scared enough to jump in and start acting like adults when it comes to North Korea. China knew Obama wasn't a threat to do anything but apologize for America. Trump made them realize they could have a war in their own back yard PDQ. So they are all on board to help us solve this problem, and South Korean leaders have also given Trump credit for this.

I know, I'm a big liar. Like I give a **** what you think. It's what the good people of Michigan and Wisconsin think. and they will give Trump the credit, believe me.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Indeed, I would love nothing more than for this to actually be the breakthrough we've been hoping for, for decades.

But I doubt it as well.

One of the most basic keys to North Korea settling down is the West helping promote North Korea's appearance as a rational actor on the world stage, and believe it or not, the key to THAT actually happens to be crude oil shipments, natural gas, grain and cash. The trouble is, North Korea never makes any concessions in return for these gifts, but they do settle down for a little while till supplies run low, then they start acting irrationally again.

They also never let up on throwing out the red meat to their proles about how USA is the great enemy, but on the outside, the threats subside a little and the dust settles.

Hard as it might be to believe, it is this placating with goodies that HAS INDEED "contained" North Korea for many years.
So that IS also a factor.
And here's another one, which I do not like:

China is only too happy to allow a certain number of undocumented North Korean workers across for sweatshop labor in nearby towns. What if Mr. Trump penned a deal with China to increase the flow of North Korean workers to staff sweatshops that make HIS goods?

Not saying that's what's happening, I am saying it is not out of the realm of possibility, as Mr. Trump's options for profitable ventures are more and more limited every day.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Trump's actions got China scared enough to jump in and start acting like adults when it comes to North Korea. China knew Obama wasn't a threat to do anything but apologize for America. Trump made them realize they could have a war in their own back yard PDQ. So they are all on board to help us solve this problem, and South Korean leaders have also given Trump credit for this.

I know, I'm a big liar. Like I give a **** what you think. It's what the good people of Michigan and Wisconsin think. and they will give Trump the credit, believe me.

Well, if that's how hard you don't care... :roll:
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Yes, we all are putting our own kind of faith in this. I think it will happen. If it doesn't you can use it to smack around the Trump supporters. I understand that. However the liberals have a lot to lose too. If Trump pulls this off then this entire narrative the democrats, the media, and hollywood have carefully constructed of a disastrous, chaotic Administration lead but a disaster of a human being kind of......falls apart. Even CNN will have to take 5 minutes away from the wall to wall porn star coverage to give the President credit. They can't just explain it away as a fluke.

We shall see what happens.

I'm sorry but the bolded part of your statement is unbelievably childish.
Besides, putting together a peace deal with North Korea does not make criminal investigations magically disappear.
Lots of crime bosses get pleasure from strutting around their town and handing out generous gifts to the little people.
Does it take away from the fact that they are still peddling drugs, extracting money from local businesses, money laundering and trafficking human beings?

The things that liberals fear losing are tangible.
Affordable public primary and secondary education, health care, equality, environment, the social safety net, Medicare, Social Security, VA benefits, the post office, public infrastructure, public lands, worker rights, consumer protection, energy efficiency and renewables, fair treatment for minorities and immigrants, and an overall sense that a president and the congress exercise a sense of what's right and knowledge of what's wrong.
Because in the end, what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong, and the rule of law is above politics.


Now, you tell ME if YOU have a problem with ANYTHING in RED that I said above.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

(And don't start about tariffs. We've got the bigger economy but China has second-biggest. Either of our countries could destroy the other's economy for all intents and purposes - we only have so much leverage).

And speaking of the above for a moment:

The West had better damn well recognize one thing about China, something I have been saying for almost twenty years.
If trade and economics ever reached the point where China was feeling enough discomfort that it made them angry enough at the USA, they would think nothing of pivoting back to an austerity plan reminiscent of the days when Chinese were issued a bowl of rice, a bicycle, a set of silk pajamas and a little red book.

The pain for the Chinese government, it's wealthy class and all of the Chinese people would be IMMENSE, it would be very real, and the effects would be long lasting, HOWEVER if that is the kind of sacrifice that China felt it would take to permanently slay the Americans, they would do it in a hot second and they wouldn't care if they had to slaughter 300 million of their own people to enforce it either.
They have enough extra people to spare.

Manufacturing for the USA would cease, trade would cease, debt would be called in and all monies would be diverted to the Chines military.
And the effects on the American AND global economy would be horrific, and most likely permanent.

China is a five thousand year old society and civilization and thus they are fond of thinking in the long term and planning for the long term. And after the US economy collapses, China would cease their austerity program and restart their economic engine and put the finishing touches on their current 21st century Silk Road interconnecting most of the world with their trade ports.

And then, they would extend a very small carrot and a very large stick to the ash heap that was once the American economy and offer to help remedy the situation, if America would accept THEIR TERMS.

And none of this is because America is inherently weak, it's because America became too dependent upon China's cheap labor.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

I'm sorry but the bolded part of your statement is unbelievably childish.
Besides, putting together a peace deal with North Korea does not make criminal investigations magically disappear.
Lots of crime bosses get pleasure from strutting around their town and handing out generous gifts to the little people.
Does it take away from the fact that they are still peddling drugs, extracting money from local businesses, money laundering and trafficking human beings?

The things that liberals fear losing are tangible.
Affordable public primary and secondary education, health care, equality, environment, the social safety net, Medicare, Social Security, VA benefits, the post office, public infrastructure, public lands, worker rights, consumer protection, energy efficiency and renewables, fair treatment for minorities and immigrants, and an overall sense that a president and the congress exercise a sense of what's right and knowledge of what's wrong.
Because in the end, what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong, and the rule of law is above politics.


Now, you tell ME if YOU have a problem with ANYTHING in RED that I said above.

I note that you dont mention freedom even with as weak and corrupt as America is now.

This is the judgment of fools.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Well, if that's how hard you don't care... :roll:

An impressive display of not caring. You certainly did put a lot of effort into it, Joe.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

I note that you dont mention freedom even with as weak and corrupt as America is now.

This is the judgment of fools.

I note that you don't recognize a description of freedom when you see it written in big bold red letters.

Just going "mumble mumble, free-dumb" does not freedom make.

 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Trump's actions got China scared enough to jump in and start acting like adults when it comes to North Korea. China knew Obama wasn't a threat to do anything but apologize for America. Trump made them realize they could have a war in their own back yard PDQ. So they are all on board to help us solve this problem, and South Korean leaders have also given Trump credit for this.

I know, I'm a big liar. Like I give a **** what you think. It's what the good people of Michigan and Wisconsin think. and they will give Trump the credit, believe me.

Not only is China afraid of the threat of war...especially when they consider how unstable Rocket Man is...but they are also feeling the effects of the economic pressure Trump is bringing to bear upon them. China calls the shots where NK is concerned. China summoned Rocket Man and presumably laid down the law to him. The result is the recent events we've seen...meeting with Trump being arranged, talk of denuclearization, peace with SK, no more nuke or rocket tests.

Rocket Man didn't have any "come to Jesus" revelation that put him on this path. He was told what to do by the Chinese...or else. The Chinese didn't take this path out of the goodness of their heart, either. They are acting in their own self interest...influenced greatly by Trump's economic actions toward them and NK.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

WOW



https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...976a82b05a2_story.html?utm_term=.d2e55c0560f4

It's funny watching the unhinged left sweat this one. Trump's about to (rightly) get some credit for ending a 55 year war.

Who's ready for this?

View attachment 67231845

I'm not sure why you expect the left to be "unhinged" or to "sweat this one out." As long as North Korea and the US aren't talking about new ways to launch nukes at each other, that's a good thing.
 
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Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Not only is China afraid of the threat of war...especially when they consider how unstable Rocket Man is...but they are also feeling the effects of the economic pressure Trump is bringing to bear upon them. China calls the shots where NK is concerned. China summoned Rocket Man and presumably laid down the law to him. The result is the recent events we've seen...meeting with Trump being arranged, talk of denuclearization, peace with SK, no more nuke or rocket tests.

Rocket Man didn't have any "come to Jesus" revelation that put him on this path. He was told what to do by the Chinese...or else. The Chinese didn't take this path out of the goodness of their heart, either. They are acting in their own self interest...influenced greatly by Trump's economic actions toward them and NK.

I believe you are woefully overestimating Trumps affect on this whole scenario, we don't fully understand what is developing here and we probably won't for some time.

So while you prance about being the Rudolf Hess to Trump, the rest of us will actually wait to see what happens.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

I was highly amused at the picture of Trump with his Nobel medal, I know he could never possibly be awarded such a prize, even if he managed to denuclearize North Korea and even though this would be much more deserving of that prize than anything Obama ever did for his prize.

Pompeo's meeting with Kim is another unquestionable sign this is moving forward, the South Korean announcement they're discussing a peace treaty is also quite significant and necessarily involves changes in the US posture. I don't think the US would have to withdraw all military force from South Korea if they signed a peace treaty with the Kim, but this would certainly merit some reduction in US deployments. So far we've just got optimistic expressions of intent, I expect some verifiable compliance with that denuclearization will need to be forthcoming too. I'm sure there will be a summit, that Trump and Kim will shake hands in a memorable photo that will certainly have greater impact on international relations and world peace than anything we've seen in a long time. If only some of the promises and commitments bear fruit, maybe overall things will improve.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

WOW



https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...976a82b05a2_story.html?utm_term=.d2e55c0560f4

It's funny watching the unhinged left sweat this one. Trump's about to (rightly) get some credit for ending a 55 year war.

Who's ready for this?

View attachment 67231845
Trump is no Nixon and Mike Pompeo is no Henry Kissinger. I would be delighted and genuinely impressed if there was a breakthrough but I just don't see it. Even if the current administration was much more diplomatically savvy, the North Koreans have been incredibly intransigent over the past decades and they're likely just buying time again.

Of course, a lot of this depends on the impact of global sanctions on the North Korean economy, something that is opaque to most people not inside North Korea.
I wish him luck. But Kim was reminded recently just who’s puppet he is. China will not let Kim cut them out of the agreement. China wants the north to be in charge of “unification” of the south. China does not want capitalism or freedom near China.

That boys and girls is the game. Pull out US troops in exchange for an end of nukes and an end to South Korea as a free country.

I doubt we would throw SoKo to the wolves. We will attack NoKo first and China is just going to have to sit there and take it. China’s is afraid of Japan's submarine fleet and they will bluster and feint toward Taiwan, but they won’t attack it. (At least that is what I hear).

China will only go to war if they can win. They don’t do “maybes”.

There's not really much evidence that China's been deliberately encouraging NK to pursue its quest for nuclear capability. They always condemn Pyongyang's nuclear strides, they have been enforcing UN sanctions (however reluctantly), and they have stated they won't defend Kim if he decides to attack South Korea. They do fear civil war and instability on their border, which is why they are sluggish in punishing North Korea, but from a strategic perspective they do not benefit from a nuclear-armed North Korea. Leaving everything else aside, a North Korea with nukes has no need to rely on China for defense and therefore has little reason to submit to the CCP's desire for regional dominance.

The argument that China is fearful of a unified capitalist democracy in Korea is especially unconvincing. The PRC has been aggressively capitalist for a long time, it has completely abandoned Mao's revolutionary internationalism, and it is sending its youth en masse to study in Western universities. If those things don't threaten the CCP's rule, the collapse of a ****ty, wretched Stalinist regime on its border certainly won't.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Trump is no Nixon and Mike Pompeo is no Henry Kissinger. I would be delighted and genuinely impressed if there was a breakthrough but I just don't see it. Even if the current administration was much more diplomatically savvy, the North Koreans have been incredibly intransigent over the past decades and they're likely just buying time again.

Of course, a lot of this depends on the impact of global sanctions on the North Korean economy, something that is opaque to most people not inside North Korea.


There's not really much evidence that China's been deliberately encouraging NK to pursue its quest for nuclear capability. They always condemn Pyongyang's nuclear strides, they have been enforcing UN sanctions (however reluctantly), and they have stated they won't defend Kim if he decides to attack South Korea. They do fear civil war and instability on their border, which is why they are sluggish in punishing North Korea, but from a strategic perspective they do not benefit from a nuclear-armed North Korea. Leaving everything else aside, a North Korea with nukes has no need to rely on China for defense and therefore has little reason to submit to the CCP's desire for regional dominance.

The argument that China is fearful of a unified capitalist democracy in Korea is especially unconvincing. The PRC has been aggressively capitalist for a long time, it has completely abandoned Mao's revolutionary internationalism, and it is sending its youth en masse to study in Western universities. If those things don't threaten the CCP's rule, the collapse of a ****ty, wretched Stalinist regime on its border certainly won't.

I started reading this and then I realized that you dont know that Trump listens too and makes sure that he understands Kissinger very well.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Sending Pompeo is a bold move....Hard to tell if trump is nervous South Korean and the North will work things out on their own....and he'll get NO credit....Still if something comes of it...That would be a positive for all concerned.....Except for the dreaded left being "unhinged"....
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

Yes, we all are putting our own kind of faith in this. I think it will happen. If it doesn't you can use it to smack around the Trump supporters. I understand that. However the liberals have a lot to lose too. If Trump pulls this off then this entire narrative the democrats, the media, and hollywood have carefully constructed of a disastrous, chaotic Administration lead but a disaster of a human being kind of......falls apart. Even CNN will have to take 5 minutes away from the wall to wall porn star coverage to give the President credit. They can't just explain it away as a fluke.

We shall see what happens.

I think that if this happens it is as much an indictment of Republicans as it is Democrats. There is 55 years of doing the same thing and expecting different results, and that covers Republican and Democratic administrations.

This is feeling a lot like the diplomatic efforts with China in the 1970s.
 
Re: CIA Director Pompeo makes secret trip to North Korea: Meets with Kim Jong Un

The argument that China is fearful of a unified capitalist democracy in Korea is especially unconvincing. The PRC has been aggressively capitalist for a long time, it has completely abandoned Mao's revolutionary internationalism, and it is sending its youth en masse to study in Western universities. If those things don't threaten the CCP's rule, the collapse of a ****ty, wretched Stalinist regime on its border certainly won't.

China hasn't been "capitalist", it is still a command economy. The Chinese Communists just try and mimic the functions of a capitalist economy in how they direct their production.
 
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