China’s economic growth holds steady amid trade dispute

From Associated Press



BEIJING (AP) — China’s economic growth held steady in the quarter ending in March amid a worsening trade dispute with U.S. President Donald Trump, buoyed by strong e-commerce and factory output.


The world’s second-largest economy expanded by 6.8 percent over a year earlier, in line with the quarter ending in December and down slightly from 2017′s full-year expansion of 6.9 percent, data showed Tuesday. It was above the official 2018 target of “around 6.5 percent,” which would be among the world’s strongest if achieved.


A government spokesman expressed confidence China’s $12 trillion-a-year economy can withstand Trump’s threatened tariff hikes on up to $150 billion of Chinese goods in a dispute over technology policy.

[COMMENT]

In comparison, the US GDP increase for 2017 was 2.9% (which is up from 2016), the US balance of payments for 2017 was -$466.2 billion (which was up from 2016's -$451.7 billion) while the US International Goods and Services trade continued on the same course that Mr. Trump had mapped out for it and the U.S. International Investment Position shows that Americans own a greater dollar amount of "off-shore" assets than ever before.

A lot of people have this view of China's economy as it was 10 years ago. They have a lot of domestic innovation in their economy now. They no longer devalue their currency and haven't since 2013. Like any other economy on earth, they have some imbalances, but by and large, if anything, their economy is on a better path of long term strong growth than ours is.

It is a country of over a billion of the hardest working people on earth. It will be the world's economic superpower. The question is only whether than is in 10 years or 20 years.

SouthernDemocrat said:

A lot of people have this view of China's economy as it was 10 years ago. They have a lot of domestic innovation in their economy now. They no longer devalue their currency and haven't since 2013. Like any other economy on earth, they have some imbalances, but by and large, if anything, their economy is on a better path of long term strong growth than ours is.

It is a country of over a billion of the hardest working people on earth. It will be the world's economic superpower. The question is only whether than is in 10 years or 20 years.

Click to expand...

Okay...Idk about THAT lol... but I agree with your overall sentiment.

Chinese people are actually pretty lazy and work less than Americans.... There are just so many of them.

celticwar17 said:

Okay...Idk about THAT lol... but I agree with your overall sentiment.

Chinese people are actually pretty lazy and work less than Americans.... There are just so many of them.

Click to expand...

You have obviously never traveled to China then. I spent time there in 2007, 2009, and just last Fall in 2017. A typical Chinese worker will work 10 to 15 hours a day, 6 days a week. If they are a small business owner, and many are, they will work 12 hours or more a day, 7 days a week. The only significant time they typically ever take off is around Chinese New Year. A small business over there will open in the morning and will not close until late at night. For example, a corner store that is ran by a married couple will open at 8 AM, close at Midnight or 1:00 AM, 7 days a week.

Do the Chinese really work harder than everyone else? | Inquirer Business
Here's Sad Proof Chinese Are the Hardest Workers in the World (Infographic) - Vision Times
https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-days-a-staple-at-chinese-tech-firms-1487787775

We have 2 kids, a biological son and two adopted daughters from China. Our girls work ethic is incredible. Every time we talk to their teachers, we are told our oldest daughter is the most driven, hardest working kid they have ever known. This is despite the fact she as cerebral palsy. Our oldest interns for my employer during the summers, and they say the same thing about her here. She didn't come here until she was 9, so she has that Chinese cultural work ethic instilled in her. Moreover, our girls are both big savers too. They will save at least .75 cents of every dollar they earn doing any kind of work we can find for them.

Seriously, travel to China, you have never seen people work the way they do.

celticwar17 said:

Okay...Idk about THAT lol... but I agree with your overall sentiment.

Chinese people are actually pretty lazy and work less than Americans.... There are just so many of them.

Click to expand...

The latest figures that I could find put the average work week for Americans at 34.6 hours and the average work week for Chinese at 46 hours.

PS - If you work someone works for 1 hour in China and someone else works for 1 hour in the US, which of them "works less"?

SouthernDemocrat said:

You have obviously never traveled to China then. I spent time there in 2007, 2009, and just last Fall in 2017. A typical Chinese worker will work 10 to 15 hours a day, 6 days a week. If they are a small business owner, and many are, they will work 12 hours or more a day, 7 days a week. The only significant time they typically ever take off is around Chinese New Year. A small business over there will open in the morning and will not close until late at night. For example, a corner store that is ran by a married couple will open at 8 AM, close at Midnight or 1:00 AM, 7 days a week.

Do the Chinese really work harder than everyone else? | Inquirer Business
Here's Sad Proof Chinese Are the Hardest Workers in the World (Infographic) - Vision Times
https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-days-a-staple-at-chinese-tech-firms-1487787775

We have 2 kids, a biological son and two adopted daughters from China. Our girls work ethic is incredible. Every time we talk to their teachers, we are told our oldest daughter is the most driven, hardest working kid they have ever known. This is despite the fact she as cerebral palsy. Our oldest interns for my employer during the summers, and they say the same thing about her here. She didn't come here until she was 9, so she has that Chinese cultural work ethic instilled in her. Moreover, our girls are both big savers too. They will save at least .75 cents of every dollar they earn doing any kind of work we can find for them.

Seriously, travel to China, you have never seen people work the way they do.

Click to expand...

I have traveled to china... I've lived there temporarily for school.
Most of these statistics don't take into account Chinese people take naps during their work day.

TU Curmudgeon said:

The latest figures that I could find put the average work week for Americans at 34.6 hours and the average work week for Chinese at 46 hours.

PS - If you work someone works for 1 hour in China and someone else works for 1 hour in the US, which of them "works less"?

Click to expand...

Chinese people take naps during the day... they are NOT working that long.

celticwar17 said:

I have traveled to china... I've lived there temporarily for school.
Most of these statistics don't take into account Chinese people take naps during their work day.

Click to expand...

Because they work 12 to 15 hours a day, and their naps consist of 30 minutes around lunch time. That's why the Chinese can sleep in any position - chair, sitting up on a bench, I have seen them sleeping in a wheelbarrow at a construction site.

celticwar17 said:

Chinese people take naps during the day... they are NOT working that long.

Click to expand...

I accept your anecdotal evidence for what it is worth.

SouthernDemocrat said:

A lot of people have this view of China's economy as it was 10 years ago. They have a lot of domestic innovation in their economy now. They no longer devalue their currency and haven't since 2013. Like any other economy on earth, they have some imbalances, but by and large, if anything, their economy is on a better path of long term strong growth than ours is.

It is a country of over a billion of the hardest working people on earth. It will be the world's economic superpower. The question is only whether than is in 10 years or 20 years.

Click to expand...

Sineophiles are even more susceptible to grandiose visions than the sappy Chinese elites are.

Nobody wants Xi Jinping's One Belt One (Yellow Brick) Road new silk road from Beijing across Asia to Berlin and beyond. Xi's Slick Silk Road Show is going nowhere for the obvious reason: CCP builds it and CCP moves in and runs the businesses and corporations in each country. OBOR is stuck on the drawing board going nowhere as no country across Asia wants to become a Chinese satellite. Pakistan which was the only country to begin OBOR construction stopped it because the CCP took it over as if the CCP were on Chinese soil. As far as CCP was concerned they were on Chinese soil, which makes the point against OBOR. Nobody over there wants it or will accept it. OBOR is kaput.

Capital is fleeing China at $1 Trillion a year as the best Chinese capitalists escape CCP corruption and interference to instead take their families with 'em. CCP Boyz in Beijing have imposed capital controls which last year reduced the outflow to $730 billion. That is, CCP Boyz are still stuck with their state owned corporations in the absolute need of private profits via taxation to survive. Talk about a swamp gurgling on quicksand, this is it.

RMB has collapsed as any prospect of becoming a global currency either in trade or as a foreign reserve currency. Global markets have been putting downward pressure on the RMB since late in 2015. The downward pressure is due to two stock market collapses during 2015 during which the CCP Boyz exposed to the world they have no clue of what they're doing. The CCP Boyz personal bank aka the central bank has torched almost $1 Trillion to support the rmb since. The Boyz did something during this time that no one noticed, i.e., they sold off $600 billion of US Treasuries. Nobody's noticed because the global market sucked 'em up immediately and routinely. That's half of the US Treasuries the CCP Boyz had in their forex reserve. Sold 'em off. Gone. And as expected by people who know, the selloff by the Boyz had no adverse effects on the US economy, dollar, financial system or trade. The Boyz have been buying 'em back again in new Treasury auctions because they know that without USD in China the RMB tanks completely.

Yawn.

Every Chinese dynasty has failed. Some of 'em collapsed in a relatively short order. The present CCP Dynasty is a young and nervous dynasty of emperors in business suits which is why every Chinese with any sense is getting while the getting's good. They know it won't last. Indeed, household savings are piled higher than ever while household spending remains a paltry 40% of GDP. Chinese people limit their spending strictly, consciously, deliberately. They learned long ago never to trust their grandiose and megalomaniac leaders.

Forbes has a rather different view of the strength of the RMB "Chinese RMB Strengthening To 6.10 Against U.S. Dollar By Year End, SEB Forecasts"than you appear to have.

On the other hand, you are a financial expert and Forbes is mere "supermarket tabloid".

TU Curmudgeon said:

Forbes has a rather different view of the strength of the RMB "Chinese RMB Strengthening To 6.10 Against U.S. Dollar By Year End, SEB Forecasts"than you appear to have.

On the other hand, you are a financial expert and Forbes is mere "supermarket tabloid".

Click to expand...

If you want to hold me up against Forbes then you can be held up against the Economist -- or perhaps Business Week. Regardless of who might hold up better it's not the way these discussion board thingys operate now izzit.

I've been living RMB daily since January 2008 no matter which country I've resided in. Global markets have been pressuring the RMB since late in 2015 for the reasons I posted. The CCP Boyz in Beijing have torched forex reserves to support it. The CNY-RMB is nowhere as a global currency either as a reserve unit or in trade. CCP is btw a creditor country and in a trade war the creditor country has historically taken the major hit, which is why the Boyz are howling. What the yuan is doing this year has no effect or impact on any of this. The Boyz set the yuan rate because it's their monopoly money to play with inside their borders. Neither do the Boyz want global markets changing the fact which is what would occur if the Boyz tried seriously to globalize the RMB.

However another item that does impact the CCP economy and financial system is the fact debt growth continues to outpace the growth rate. The CCP debt to GDP ratio is approaching 300% and counting. Household spending won't move off the dime despite Xi Jinpingpong urging Chinese to spend. It was this urging by Xi and his Prime Minister Li Keqiang to buy chosen stocks (supposedly guaranteed) that produced two equity market crashes in 2015. The result of the two back to back crashes is that neither the Chinese people nor the global markets trust the Boyz any more. The crashes revealed the Boyz are simply doing what they do on the spur of the moment rather than have the control they have always pretended to have over the economy and financial system.

CCP Boyz are going to stretch this out for as long as they can get away with it. To date for instance the good government NGOs in the West figure that since year 2000 the CCP Boyz throughout the PRC have fleeced the People for $5 Trillion in corruption. That's not a bad take by any standards. It is very likely to be a record that will stand the annals of time.

TU Curmudgeon said:

The latest figures that I could find put the average work week for Americans at 34.6 hours and the average work week for Chinese at 46 hours.

PS - If you work someone works for 1 hour in China and someone else works for 1 hour in the US, which of them "works less"?

Click to expand...

Do those numbers take into account the underemployment rate too?

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trouble13 said:

Do those numbers take into account the underemployment rate too?

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I don't know.

Now, how is "underemployment" relevant to the average work week - which is measured by what employed people do?

celticwar17 said:

I have traveled to china... I've lived there temporarily for school.
Most of these statistics don't take into account Chinese people take naps during their work day.

Click to expand...

This sounds like something Archie Bunker said..:lol:

TU Curmudgeon said:

I don't know.

Now, how is "underemployment" relevant to the average work week - which is measured by what employed people do?

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If your comparing 100m full time worker to 100m part time workers it will skew the averages.

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HenryChinaski said:

This sounds like something Archie Bunker said..:lol:

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I did ...
I did a summer study abroad there... and I've had CHinese national girlfriends before...

I wish I could find a Youtube video I saw forever ago that explains exactly what I am saying xD

celticwar17 said:

I did ...
I did a summer study abroad there... and I've had CHinese national girlfriends before...

I wish I could find a Youtube video I saw forever ago that explains exactly what I am saying xD

Click to expand...

Please enlighten me with more ethnic and national stereotypes that you perceive. Any about Jews and money? Puerto Rican’s maybe?

HenryChinaski said:

Please enlighten me with more ethnic and national stereotypes that you perceive. Any about Jews and money? Puerto Rican’s maybe?

Click to expand...

Wow... I am simply giving you a fact that those statistics are misleading. Chinese people sleep during the day. Even at a big corporation, you try to call as a customer... you will hard pressed to find anyone to pick up around lunch time. They take a lunch and around a hour+ nap a day in the middle of the work day.

This is in no way trashing on Chinese people lol(Though I would mind to). It's a fact of their society.... and it's kind of cool if you like to take naps.

Americans who go over there are actually surprised at how much Chinese people sleep. A lot of Americans are used to working 8+ hour shifts.

CCP population are taught throughout schooling to get eight hours a night. Not all of 'em do get 8 each night but many do. Chinese in schooling get regular lectures and reminders of the zillion benefits of eight hours a night. It becomes their civic obligation early on and it is reinforced regularly, consistently.

Teachers specifically contrast sleep patterns in the USA as what not to do in the CCP-PRC. The Party cadre exaggerate sleep behaviors in USA but not by much. They present Americans as fools who live highly irregularly and sleep-wake as being at the core of all the evil. The teaching is that Americans sleep 4 to 6 hours a night and sleep in on weekends. This is presented as evil and the source of heart attacks, strokes and getting hit by lightning ha.

When I was on faculty at a private university in the CCP-PRC lunch started at noon for everyone and ended at 2:30 for everyone. The learners were supervised to nap after lunch, wake by 2 at the least then go to their 2:30 class. Classes ended by 5:30. During the first month I'd go to the department offices during lunchtime for whatever it wuz only to find all the doors locked. Nobody there. They're all off to lunch and naps. Daily. Starting around 2:15 students swarm out of the dorms to the classroom buildings.

When I worked in private business it was the same. Lunch at noon, everyone napped then began to rouse in the offices around 2 pm with the expectation to resume work at 2:30 as per requirements of the contract. Workers in the factory buildings had one hour for lunch and about half of 'em returned for the night shift (till 11 pm) after an hour for supper -- three meals daily provided by the factory owners. Factory workers got a ten minute break mid morning and mid afternoon. At another private business where I consulted everyone got one hour for lunch after which the office staff of 50 or so lined up and did aerobics to music.

I dunno about Japan but from SK to India the culture there is predominantly to take a nap anytime you can get one in. It's common to see a couple of employees in an office face down on their desks zonked out any time of the day, and it's no problem whatsoever. It's considered the smart thing to do. In the classroom however students sleep at their own risk as the teacher takes a grave offense to it. Which reminds me also there are no sick days in that part of the world. Home sick in bed is the same vile thing there as child molester is here. Many times I've seen either a student or a worker propped up by friends or coworkers being dragged into the building to get plopped down for the day rather than be home sick in bed. You can sleep dead sick at your classroom desk or work station all day and nobody bothers you. Just do not stay home sick in bed -- not ever or for any reason. It's considered physically weak and morally selfish. Strange but true.

TU Curmudgeon;1068414244[B said:

]China’s economic growth held steady[/B] in the quarter ending in March amid a worsening trade dispute with U.S. President Donald Trump, buoyed by strong e-commerce and factory output....

A government spokesman expressed confidence China’s $12 trillion-a-year economy can withstand Trump’s threatened tariff hikes on up to $150 billion of Chinese goods in a dispute over technology policy.

Click to expand...

Of course, it did. Has there been a existential and material change in factors that would militate for it do otherwise? I haven't seen any. Have you?

• GDP = C + I + G + (X – M)

TU Curmudgeon said:

The world’s second-largest economy expanded by 6.8 percent over a year earlier, in line with the quarter ending in December and down slightly from 2017′s full-year expansion of 6.9 percent, data showed Tuesday. It was above the official 2018 target of “around 6.5 percent,” which would be among the world’s strongest if achieved.....

In comparison, the US GDP increase for 2017 was 2.9% (which is up from 2016), the US balance of payments for 2017 was -$466.2 billion (which was up from 2016's -$451.7 billion) while the US International Goods and Services trade continued on the same course that Mr. Trump had mapped out for it and the U.S. International Investment Position shows that Americans own a greater dollar amount of "off-shore" assets than ever before.

Click to expand...

To be honest, I'm not even sure why that comparison was presented. The U.S. (and Western Europe, for that matter) is a mature economy; China's (and much of the rest of the world's) is an emerging economy.

• GDP Growth in Emerging Markets vs. Mature Markets

TU Curmudgeon said:

A government spokesman expressed confidence China’s $12 trillion-a-year economy can withstand Trump’sthreatened tariff hikes on up to $150 billion of Chinese goods in a dispute over technology policy.

Click to expand...

Well, the guy is a Chinese government spokesman, so, of course, he expressed confidence; that's what politicians do, even Socialist ones. That's why it's incumbent on listeners of any government spokesperson to have a very keen understanding of what the spokesperson is discussing before relying on what s/he said.

Even if, however, the PRC spokesman weren't expressing confidence, one can be sue that insofar as he's not a White House/Trump spokesman, he damn sure wan't going to blame Democrats, Hillary or Obama for the circumstances giving rise to the reduced or lack of confidence.

trouble13 said:

If your comparing 100m full time worker to 100m part time workers it will skew the averages.

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True, but if you are comparing full-time workers to full-time workers it doesn't.

Do you know which set of data is used in coming up with the average number of hours worked per week by full-time workers?

TU Curmudgeon said:

True, but if you are comparing full-time workers to full-time workers it doesn't.

Do you know which set of data is used in coming up with the average number of hours worked per week by full-time workers?

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Thats why I asked the question. I do not know what data they used

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trouble13 said:

Thats why I asked the question. I do not know what data they used

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

The set of data which is used to come up with the average number of hours worked per week by full-time workers is the number of hours worked per week by full-time workers.

"Full-time work" is defined as 30+ hours per week.

You might note that a 9 - 5, M - F, job with two (unpaid) 15 minute "coffee" breaks and one (unpaid) "30 minute "lunch" break works out to 35 hours per week.