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4 in 10 millennials don't know 6 million Jews were killed in Holocaust, study shows

Im a millennial and my Highschool taught it to me twice, once in World History, and then in depth in AP European History. They probably found the dumbest people they could find for this study. And besides, if only 22 percent of the millennial population is stupid, still better ratio than boomers...
 
I'm shocked at how many good posters here, have bared the holes in their basic education.

To not know of the Holocaust, or the history of slavery, are pretty egregious education gaps in my opinion.

Kudos to these guys for coming up to speed on their own! :thumbs:

I can only be happy my folks sent us kids to European style Catholic Grammar Schools, where we learned a great deal about these subjects, especially the Holocaust and war(s). I'm happy enough with the outcome of my family's efforts, that I in turn sent all my kids through the same school systems. The older I get, the more I appreciate it and don't regret the money & hard work it took to get my kids through it.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
And as I pointed out before, we DO spend more per student...IF we add in the costs of college (including the loans, no thanks to the Right that seems to think that saddling students with tens of thousands of dollars in debt on the day they graduate is somehow a good thing). But if we look at only K-12, no, there's several European nations that spend more than us per student.
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I see you provide no link. Good job! Are you a Public School Graduate?

I happen to have a couple Liberal Arts degrees. I worked through college. Actually, I've had a job since i was a paperboy at age 11 1/2. Graduated debt free from college in the Carter years.

Education in the case of college expense is a product with a dollar value. The Students are buying this product. Nobody except the purchaser is saddling anybody with anything. This is their free choice. The only thing about college that is free.

The dual tragedy of student loans is the need to pay the piper after graduation and the inflation of tuition caused by too many dollars chasing too few admittances.

Absent the loans, the number of students and the costs of tuition would decrease.

I am not endorsing ending student loans. Just pointing out that the students who take the loans made a deal. If they are so saddled, it is they who cinched the saddle and determined how tight the thing would be.

Why must every painful thing be the fault of "The Right" and be characterized as somehow unfair?
 
Renae said:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/holocaust-study-millennials/

How are our schools failing this badly???
Click to expand...
Why do they need to know that six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust?

The Holocaust was a horrible thing, but as an event of history, I'm not sure it marks a turning point as much as it highlights the nature and extent of myopic, selfish and fearful hatred of which some individuals are capable and what those individuals will do in service of that hatred. The thing about that is that The German Fuhrer was hardly the first tyrant to implement a pogrom/ethnic cleansing; thus it's not as though reprobate human traits such as his aren't evident to students of history. Some that come readily to mind include:
  • Biblical Times -- Slaughter of the Infants (Herod the Great; truly the irony is astounding)
  • 13th Century -- Edward I expelling all Jews from England
  • 17th Century -- Cromwell's Act of Settlement/Irish Conquest
  • 18th Century -- Jacobite expurgation
  • 19the Century -- Andrew Jackson Indian Removal Act and Trail of Tears
Now what share of millennials recall those events is anybody's guess. From where I sit, all of them were heinous enough that the quantity of folks who perished for no good reason is irrelevant.


If I have $100 to my name and you have $10, am I really so much better off than you? Are you so much worse off than I? I say, no, and the context by which I do is the same context by which I above ask why do they need to know? Know that the Holocaust occurred, yes, that's worth knowing. Know that six million people were killed in the Holocaust, well, no, the figure's not what matters. And that's the problem with how people perceive history; it's not about names, numbers, dates and places, it's about material causes and and their material effects, thus my opening question.
 
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truthatallcost said:
I have a different theory, since I actually am a millennial maybe I can shed light on this. I remember being taught about the holocaust, starting in 8th grade, and then several times in high school and college. My theory is that other people of my generation aren't retaining what they were taught, and that's why 40% can't speak intelligently about it. I happened to be in the minority of my classmates, and actually enjoyed history.

Millennials are kind of dumb asses when it comes to anything having to do with history though. I remember one guy I went to college with thought that the civil war happened in the 1960's. He had it confused with the civil rights movement.
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How old are you that you consider yourself a millennial? I'm 34 and consider myself just a little older than they are.
 
code1211 said:
I see you provide no link. Good job! Are you a Public School Graduate?

I happen to have a couple Liberal Arts degrees. I worked through college. Actually, I've had a job since i was a paperboy at age 11 1/2. Graduated debt free from college in the Carter years.

Education in the case of college expense is a product with a dollar value. The Students are buying this product. Nobody except the purchaser is saddling anybody with anything. This is their free choice. The only thing about college that is free.

The dual tragedy of student loans is the need to pay the piper after graduation and the inflation of tuition caused by too many dollars chasing too few admittances.

Absent the loans, the number of students and the costs of tuition would decrease.

I am not endorsing ending student loans. Just pointing out that the students who take the loans made a deal. If they are so saddled, it is they who cinched the saddle and determined how tight the thing would be.

Why must every painful thing be the fault of "The Right" and be characterized as somehow unfair?
Click to expand...

1 - I am a public school graduate.

2 - You graduated during the Carter years - which means that you graduated LONG before college costs skyrocketed and it became a near-impossibility for someone to work their way through a four-year university degree. Sure, you'll find people who claim it can be done (and it can be done if one has a good scholarship, or if one is attending a low-cost community college), but when it comes to good universities...not so much.

3 - You're effectively saying to blame the students...but you're making the all-too-common conservative mistake of blaming the victims instead of putting the blame where it squarely belongs: the mindset that "greed is good", that it's somehow okay to rip people off (e.g. Trump University). You would be RIGHT if the problem affected less than half of all students...but that's not the case. Instead, it affects about 70% of college graduates:

Most college graduates have one major thing in common: student debt. Today, 70 percent of college students graduate with a significant amount of loans.

Over 44 million Americans collectively hold nearly $1.5 trillion in student debt. That means that roughly one in four American adults are paying off student loans.

When they graduate, the average student loan borrower has $37,172 in student loans, a $20,000 increase from 13 years ago. With that money, borrowers could put a down payment on a home, purchase a new car or bootstrap their own business.

But instead of helping the economy by buying a home or car or starting a business, they have to pay their student loans.

When the problem affects only a significant minority of a group, then it's probably those people who are to blame. But when the problem affects an overwhelming majority of a group, then the problem isn't with the group, but with the problem that group is facing.
 
code1211 said:
I see you provide no link. Good job! Are you a Public School Graduate?

I happen to have a couple Liberal Arts degrees. I worked through college. Actually, I've had a job since i was a paperboy at age 11 1/2. Graduated debt free from college in the Carter years.

Education in the case of college expense is a product with a dollar value. The Students are buying this product. Nobody except the purchaser is saddling anybody with anything. This is their free choice. The only thing about college that is free.

The dual tragedy of student loans is the need to pay the piper after graduation and the inflation of tuition caused by too many dollars chasing too few admittances.

Absent the loans, the number of students and the costs of tuition would decrease.

I am not endorsing ending student loans. Just pointing out that the students who take the loans made a deal. If they are so saddled, it is they who cinched the saddle and determined how tight the thing would be.

Why must every painful thing be the fault of "The Right" and be characterized as somehow unfair?
Click to expand...

That must have been nice forty years ago. That's about the last time that reality existed. I finished my undergrad degrees and teaching certificate in 2006. I graduated from law school in 2009. I had a job every step of the way. It is entirely impossible to work your way through college now. Family money and scholarships are options for some students, but most of them borrow tens of thousands of dollars just to spend the next decade of their lives repaying it.

Although old people don't want to blame it on anything except entitlement and laziness, student debt is a big reason that many younger people now delay marriage, having children, and owning real estate. Every effect has a cause; and your "free choice" argument is exactly why the education and health care systems in this country suck. "We have free will and a choice to be a mediocre society. Yahoo, Murica!" I don't think the situation is inherently infair. It is definitely barbaric for a world power in the 21st century.
 
Xelor said:
Why do they need to know that six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust?

The Holocaust was a horrible thing, but as an event of history, I'm not sure it marks a turning point as much as it highlights the nature and extent of myopic, selfish and fearful hatred of which some individuals are capable and what those individuals will do in service of that hatred. The thing about that is that The German Fuhrer was hardly the first tyrant to implement a pogrom/ethnic cleansing; thus it's not as though reprobate human traits such as his aren't evident to students of history. Some that come readily to mind include:
  • Biblical Times -- Slaughter of the Infants (Herod the Great; truly the irony is astounding)
  • 13th Century -- Edward I expelling all Jews from England
  • 17th Century -- Cromwell's Act of Settlement/Irish Conquest
  • 18th Century -- Jacobite expurgation
  • 19the Century -- Andrew Jackson Indian Removal Act and Trail of Tears
Now what share of millennials recall those events is anybody's guess. From where I sit, all of them were heinous enough that the quantity of folks who perished for no good reason is irrelevant.


If I have $100 to my name and you have $10, am I really so much better off than you? Are you so much worse off than I? I say, no, and the context by which I do is the same context by which I above ask why do they need to know? Know that the Holocaust occurred, yes, that's worth knowing. Know that six million people were killed in the Holocaust, well, no, the figure's not what matters. And that's the problem with how people perceive history; it's not about names, numbers, dates and places, it's about material causes and and their material effects, thus my opening question.
Click to expand...

It's an issue of magnitude. None of the other incidents you listed were were as brutal nor affected as many people as the Holocaust did. That's not to say that it was "worse". That's a subjective argument that does not interest me here. It was bigger. It occurred in the modern age. It occurred recently enough that we can confidently identify its causes and if we remember the lessons (the point of the OP, I believe), avoid a similar atrocity in the future.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
None of the other incidents you listed were were as brutal...
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I don't know if that's so. I'm fairly confident that unmatched be the efficiency with which the Holocaust was performed.

MateoMtnClimber said:
None of the other incidents you listed ...affected as many people as the Holocaust did....It was bigger.
Click to expand...
It was. That's a matter of scale. One need not know that 6 million died to know that. Yes, that it was 6M and not 600K or 3.5M is an element of context, but the scheme of things, it's a minor element of context. That it was 1/3rd of the world's Jewish population is far more useful to know than is knowing how many individuals constituted 1/3rd of the world's Jewish population. Several pieces of information come from the proportional figure, whereas only a couple come from knowing the count figure.

MateoMtnClimber said:
...we can confidently identify its causes...
Click to expand...
We can.

MateoMtnClimber said:
...if we remember the lessons (the point of the OP, I believe), avoid a similar atrocity in the future.
Click to expand...
I don't know if that's so.

MateoMtnClimber said:
It's an issue of magnitude. None of the other incidents you listed were were as brutal nor affected as many people as the Holocaust did. That's not to say that it was "worse". That's a subjective argument that does not interest me here. It was bigger. It occurred in the modern age. It occurred recently enough that we can confidently identify its causes and if we remember the lessons (the point of the OP, I believe), avoid a similar atrocity in the future.
Click to expand...
In the context of history and the value of knowing about historical events, the Holocaust is certainly well worth knowing about and understanding vis-a-vis its role in effecting the world we today see. Six million, three million, half a million people killed...the number doesn't matter. What matters is that whatever the quantity, it was enough people killed that the Holocaust catalyzed certain behaviors and mindsets. If millennials know and understand (1) the effects of the Holocaust, (2) that Jews were its primary objects, and (3) what trend it was a part of, but they don't know the discrete fact of how many Jews died in it, well, as far as I'm concerned, they know what is most important to know about it.

From the OP-er's article:
  • "41 percent of millennials believe two million Jews or fewer were killed during the Holocaust."
    • I don't care that they got the figure wrong.
  • "Two-thirds of millennials could not identify in the survey what Auschwitz was."
    • If they can't identify what Auschwitz was is of little consequence, but if they are utterly oblivious to the fact of death camps' having existed and their role in the pogrom, well, that's dismaying in multiple ways.
  • "The survey found there are critical gaps both in awareness of basic facts as well as detailed knowledge of the Holocaust."
    • That is what it is. What did the survey find about millennials' comprehension of the important stuff, the cause and effect stuff? Did the survey even address that aspect of millennials' knowledge? There are tons of discrete facts that I've forgotten, likely far more than I remember, so I have to look them up, far fewer forgotten be the events, trends their impacts, the key players (remembered more often by position than by name), When one understands the import of the "forest," the quantity of "leaves" on any given "tree" doesn't matter.
Lastly, knowledge of discrete facts is not a proxy for substantive understanding of causes, effects and implications, but knowing discrete facts if very useful for winning at Jeopardy and Trivial Pursuit.
 
Xelor said:
I don't know if that's so. I'm fairly confident that unmatched be the efficiency with which the Holocaust was performed.


It was. That's a matter of scale. One need not know that 6 million died to know that. Yes, that it was 6M and not 600K or 3.5M is an element of context, but the scheme of things, it's a minor element of context. That it was 1/3rd of the world's Jewish population is far more useful to know than is knowing how many individuals constituted 1/3rd of the world's Jewish population. Several pieces of information come from the proportional figure, whereas only a couple come from knowing the count figure.


We can.


I don't know if that's so.


In the context of history and the value of knowing about historical events, the Holocaust is certainly well worth knowing about and understanding vis-a-vis its role in effecting the world we today see. Six million, three million, half a million people killed...the number doesn't matter. What matters is that whatever the quantity, it was enough people killed that the Holocaust catalyzed certain behaviors and mindsets. If millennials know and understand (1) the effects of the Holocaust, (2) that Jews were its primary objects, and (3) what trend it was a part of, but they don't know the discrete fact of how many Jews died in it, well, as far as I'm concerned, they know what is most important to know about it.

From the OP-er's article:
  • "41 percent of millennials believe two million Jews or fewer were killed during the Holocaust."
    • I don't care that they got the figure wrong.
  • "Two-thirds of millennials could not identify in the survey what Auschwitz was."
    • If they can't identify what Auschwitz was is of little consequence, but if they are utterly oblivious to the fact of death camps' having existed and their role in the pogrom, well, that's dismaying in multiple ways.
  • "The survey found there are critical gaps both in awareness of basic facts as well as detailed knowledge of the Holocaust."
    • That is what it is. What did the survey find about millennials' comprehension of the important stuff, the cause and effect stuff? Did the survey even address that aspect of millennials' knowledge? There are tons of discrete facts that I've forgotten, likely far more than I remember, so I have to look them up, far fewer forgotten be the events, trends their impacts, the key players (remembered more often by position than by name), When one understands the import of the "forest," the quantity of "leaves" on any given "tree" doesn't matter.
Lastly, knowledge of discrete facts is not a proxy for substantive understanding of causes, effects and implications, but knowing discrete facts if very useful for winning at Jeopardy and Trivial Pursuit.
Click to expand...

I didn't argue that the number of dead matters in a vacuum. I said the magnitude matters. So use whatever measure you want, e.g., six million individials, one-third of a population, worst genocide in history, whatever, but my point as well as my interpretation of the OP's point remains: Younger generations must understand the context, causes, effects, and relative significance of the Holocaust. The American educational system is apparently lacking in that regard. You're unnecessarily hung up by the figure, which is more or less important depending on why one cites it. I could hardly care less about game show and board game answers.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
How old are you that you consider yourself a millennial? I'm 34 and consider myself just a little older than they are.
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You're not older than millennials, you are one. If you were born in 1984, you are a millenial. You and I are almost the same age.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Younger generations must understand the context, causes, effects, and relative significance of the Holocaust.
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Wholly agree. Indeed, I think all generations need to fully comprehend and remember those things.


MateoMtnClimber said:
The American educational system is apparently lacking in that regard.
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We often miss opportunity because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work.
-- Thomas A. Edison​


I don't agree that is the case. I don't because I'm keenly aware that becoming educated/informed, developing the understanding of the nature described above, simply put, learning, requires two things:
  • That the information needed to develop the understanding be made available -- American schools, libraries, teachers, and the Internet do this.
  • That one "consume" that information and successfully endeavor to master it -- Not nearly enough kids do this.
It is not a school system's or teacher's fault that students don't master the "context, causes, effects, and relative significance" of anything. School systems and teachers all but spoon feed students information -- imagine having to learn it all on one's own....no structured delivery approach, no independent and objective means of assessing one's progress, etc. -- as best they know how at any given moment. Some are better at it than others, but at the end of the day, it's the student's and his/her parents' obligation to ensure the student masters the information and learning process because the greatest single beneficiary of his/her doing so is the student. It'd be nice if we could just upload information and the ability to adequately evaluate it, but we can't.

Everyone's job is to "git 'er done." For adults, it's whatever they must do (lawfully) to make a living. For students it's whatever they must do to develop a foundation upon which they can build a life upon becoming adults. That any given student doesn't do so is not the American educational system's fault.

Am I suggesting that schooling cannot be improved? Not at all. I'm saying that where there are gaps between the ideal delivery of education and the actual delivery of education, it is nonetheless a student's and parents' burden to fill the gaps, and neither the student nor his/her parents' failure to fill the gaps is someone else's fault. They may not like that they have to "step-up," it may be unfair that they have to and others don't (and, yes, society can work to attenuate that inequity) but in the "here and now," step-up they must because the consequences of not doing so are dreadful.



The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word 'crisis.' One brush stroke stands for danger; the other for opportunity. In a crisis, be aware of the danger--but recognize the opportunity.
-- John F. Kennedy​
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
You're unnecessarily hung up by the figure, which is more or less important depending on why one cites it. I could hardly care less about game show and board game answers.
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It may appear so, but I assure you I'm not.
  • It may appear I'm "hung up" on that because I've been writing about the figure itself. I did because the OP-er didn't make a single declarative statement in the OP, and, frankly, the rubric article's primary focus is on discrete facts rather than on comprehension, awareness of and mastery of "context, causes, effects, and relative significance."

    Quite frankly, I think title CBS chose banally stresses the 6M rather than alluding to or explicitly citing a detail that actually matters. (I recognize why CBS' title is the OP-er's thread title.) CBS could have titled the article something like "Millennials under informed about Holocaust"

    As for the OP/OP-er, well, had s/he actually made some sort of clear, specific and declarative remarks, I might actually be confident in knowing what s/he thinks. What in the OP is the OP-er's contribution? This: "How are our schools failing this badly???" That's it. Does the OP-er mean that schools are failing at teaching names, numbers, dates and places? I don't know; maybe. Does s/he mean that schools are failing at teaching "context, causes, effects, and relative significance?" I don't know; maybe. Both? Maybe.
  • What suggests that I'm in fact not "hung up" on the number of Holocaust dead? These remarks:
    • "Know that six million people were killed in the Holocaust, well, no, the figure's not what matters. And that's the problem with how people perceive history; it's not about names, numbers, dates and places, it's about material causes and and their material effects, thus my opening question."
    • "Six million, three million, half a million people killed...the number doesn't matter. ... If millennials know and understand (1) the effects of the Holocaust, (2) that Jews were its primary objects, and (3) what trend it was a part of, but they don't know the discrete fact of how many Jews died in it, well, as far as I'm concerned, they know what is most important to know about it."
    • "Knowledge of discrete facts is not a proxy for substantive understanding of causes, effects and implications, but knowing discrete facts if very useful for winning at Jeopardy and Trivial Pursuit."
 
truthatallcost said:
You're not older than millennials, you are one. If you were born in 1984, you are a millenial. You and I are almost the same age.
Click to expand...

Meh, I'm not sure about that. We only got cell phones halfway through high school. We worked as teenagers. We didn't get participation awards. We didn't have internet access until middle school. Our first PC was in elementary school; and it was a big ole machine connected to the wall. The date/age ranges are very fluid, so I've always considered a millennial to be more cultural than anything. I think I'm part Gen X and part millennial, but you might feel differently about yourself.
 
Aah. Go to some places and 40% of boomers don't know that, either. Probably the parents of those millenials.
 
Nickyjo said:
Wonderful analysis: bringing up LA, perhaps the most diverse area in the country.
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What's the problem? Diversity is our strength. You were the one to bring up California, so I thought the topic was open for discussion.

No extra problems like language (92 of them in LA schools) crime, etc. But the low cost of homes and apartments in California certainly argues for reduced salaries. Average teacher salary in California 2012 less than $68K. Starting salary in LA less than $46K, with other compensations raising those totals, perhaps to the level you mentioned. Average pay for cops in the state cpl years later over $85K, not including some benefits. Starting salary $61K, median over $98K. Most salaries set by local authorities. Both groups contribute to our unfunded liabilities problem.
Click to expand...

California has the highest poverty rate in the USA, when cost of living is factored in. Not sure where you're getting your info from.

California has 77,000 sworn in police officers, and 266,255 teachers. Cutting police officer pay is not a good idea, especially given the path to higher crime that Jerry Brown and the Democrat majority has planned for us.

Law Enforcement Staffing in California - Public Policy Institute of California

https://ballotpedia.org/Public_education_in_California

Cutting salaries would improve education and safety in your view, I assume. Low pay for teachers=overperforming students=fixed. Think of it: lets cut the salaries for the military to make our young men and women better fighters.
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Incorrect. My view is that the state is burdened with overpopulation, which is why we need so many active duty police officers and teachers in the first place. Its also why we ran out of room to house inmates at our 34 State prisons. Until we fix our population problem, the state isn't going to show progress in any of the areas I've mentioned- education, state pensions, law enforcement, teachers unions, and the state prison system.
 
Grand Mal said:
Aah. Go to some places and 40% of boomers don't know that, either. Probably the parents of those millenials.
Click to expand...

How many Americans of any age know how many Americans died fighting in WW2? Probably not very many. Yet 89% of adults have heard of the Holocaust©, which occurred on a different continent over 70 years ago.

I would say that the OP of this thread is much ado about nothing.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Meh, I'm not sure about that. We only got cell phones halfway through high school. We worked as teenagers. We didn't get participation awards. We didn't have internet access until middle school. Our first PC was in elementary school; and it was a big ole machine connected to the wall. The date/age ranges are very fluid, so I've always considered a millennial to be more cultural than anything. I think I'm part Gen X and part millennial, but you might feel differently about yourself.
Click to expand...

Remember MTV's original format, before Beavis and Butthead, and Martha Quinn?
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Meh, I'm not sure about that. We only got cell phones halfway through high school. We worked as teenagers. We didn't get participation awards. We didn't have internet access until middle school. Our first PC was in elementary school; and it was a big ole machine connected to the wall. The date/age ranges are very fluid, so I've always considered a millennial to be more cultural than anything. I think I'm part Gen X and part millennial, but you might feel differently about yourself.
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Haha, millennial is just a term used for people born in the early 80's-early 2000's. We used to be called Gen Y, but that wasn't catchy enough. I don't place a huge importance on what generation I belong to, & I've never been particularly good at fitting in, or interested in it anyway.

People disparage millennials because there's a lot of stereotypes about us, some of them true, some untrue. Don't older people always think that the younger generation is spoiled/lazy/stupid though? We just have to wait until the next gen is created, then we can laugh at how goofy they are.
 
truthatallcost said:
How many Americans of any age know how many Americans died fighting in WW2? Probably not very many. Yet 89% of adults have heard of the Holocaust©, which occurred on a different continent over 70 years ago.

I would say that the OP of this thread is much ado about nothing.
Click to expand...

Well, those Americans died on a different continent over 70 years ago, too.
Just curious- why 89%? Where'd that number come from? And why the copyright symbol after the word 'holocaust'?
 
Xelor said:
Wholly agree. Indeed, I think all generations need to fully comprehend and remember those things.


We often miss opportunity because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work.
-- Thomas A. Edison​


I don't agree that is the case. I don't because I'm keenly aware that becoming educated/informed, developing the understanding of the nature described above, simply put, learning, requires two things:
  • That the information needed to develop the understanding be made available -- American schools, libraries, teachers, and the Internet do this.
  • That one "consume" that information and successfully endeavor to master it -- Not nearly enough kids do this.
It is not a school system's or teacher's fault that students don't master the "context, causes, effects, and relative significance" of anything. School systems and teachers all but spoon feed students information -- imagine having to learn it all on one's own....no structured delivery approach, no independent and objective means of assessing one's progress, etc. -- as best they know how at any given moment. Some are better at it than others, but at the end of the day, it's the student's and his/her parents' obligation to ensure the student masters the information and learning process because the greatest single beneficiary of his/her doing so is the student. It'd be nice if we could just upload information and the ability to adequately evaluate it, but we can't.

Everyone's job is to "git 'er done." For adults, it's whatever they must do (lawfully) to make a living. For students it's whatever they must do to develop a foundation upon which they can build a life upon becoming adults. That any given student doesn't do so is not the American educational system's fault.

Am I suggesting that schooling cannot be improved? Not at all. I'm saying that where there are gaps between the ideal delivery of education and the actual delivery of education, it is nonetheless a student's and parents' burden to fill the gaps, and neither the student nor his/her parents' failure to fill the gaps is someone else's fault. They may not like that they have to "step-up," it may be unfair that they have to and others don't (and, yes, society can work to attenuate that inequity) but in the "here and now," step-up they must because the consequences of not doing so are dreadful.



The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word 'crisis.' One brush stroke stands for danger; the other for opportunity. In a crisis, be aware of the danger--but recognize the opportunity.
-- John F. Kennedy​
Click to expand...

You're implyimg that all schools are adequate, I think. They're not. I more or less agree with the rest of your post.
 
ecofarm said:
Remember MTV's original format, before Beavis and Butthead, and Martha Quinn?
Click to expand...

Martha Quinn was part of the original format. I vaguely remember her. I remember MTV News Break with Kurt Loder and Tabitha Soren. I remember MTV being a music channel, but that was a long time ago. I also lived in Europe and Asia for a lot of my youth where we didn't get American broadcasting.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Martha Quinn was part of the original format. I vaguely remember her. I remember MTV News Break with Kurt Loder and Tabitha Soren. I remember MTV being a music channel, but that was a long time ago.
Click to expand...

Okay, not bad.

I also lived in Europe and Asia for a lot of my youth where we didn't get American broadcasting.
Click to expand...

Whoa. You're not Gen X or Millennial or a US generation at all. I'm calling INS. :D
 
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