Uber suspends self-driving car tests after pedestrian death in Arizona

It appears the victim suddenly came in front of the vehicle.

Please resume these tests. Self driving cars bring more positives than negatives.

Fyi cars and bicycles are a bad mix. I am unsure why anyone, unless you are a pro, would ride a bike on the main road.

Thats just dangerous.

ludin said:

Doesn't really matter if they were in or outside of the cross walk.
you as a driver are responsible for those types of situations and to
be aware at all times what is going on around you.

now if she just leaped into the road with you almost there that is a different case.
this sounds like she was walking across the street the car failed to stop and
so did the guy in the driver seat.

that is a busy intersection she wouldn't have been crossing if there wasn't a sign for her to cross.
in fact is is a major intersection and crossing their road there without a walking sign is suicide.

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According to the reports, that is what happened. As soon as she walked into the road, she was hit. She didn't look, just stepped into the road. If she was already in the road and they just didn't stop and hit her, the damage to the car would not be the corner of the car like it is.

Uber's self-driving car death: What you need to know - Mar. 20, 2018 Warning: video shows the woman on the sidewalk.

Edit: it's the woman's belongings, not her herself.

brothern said:

Morning commute. You've put your complete trust in the fact that several hundred individuals, who are also on the road, are both alert and abiding by safe driving practices. However we what know is that, for example, most individuals are chronically sleep deprived: see this CDC research. That impacts safety and is one factor (of many) that drives our high traffic fatalities rate.

So anything, just anything that can successfully remove human drivers from the equation is a vast improvement. We absolutely need to put our trust in "sensors" over the risks we assume today.



Okay, sure, but what difference does that make for who assumes financial liability in accidents?

From the OP it would be assumed that automated cars are this "never seen before" technology that would throw our court systems into disarray! (The horror!)

However that's not the case. Not in the least. There are probably tens of examples of partially/fully automated transportation systems from elevators to ski lifts to trains to ship and airplane navigation systems. The courts have already built rules around these, and I don't see them significantly changing just because of automation in autos.

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Liability on SDCs, as I understand it, is unsettled law. We'll just have to wait to see who sues whom, and the court ruling, on the Uber / pedestrian death.

holbritter said:

According to the reports, that is what happened. As soon as she walked into the road, she was hit. She didn't look, just stepped into the road. If she was already in the road and they just didn't stop and hit her, the damage to the car would not be the corner of the car like it is.

Uber's self-driving car death: What you need to know - Mar. 20, 2018 Warning: video shows the woman on the sidewalk.

Edit: it's the woman's belongings, not her herself.

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You seem to miss the part that the car did not try to slow down.
No where does it say she didn't look and just walked out into the street.

The car was also speeding. 40 in a 35.

The area where self-driving vehicles are likely to first make their entrance is long-haul freight trucks. That's going to put a lot of truck drivers out of work.

ludin said:

You seem to miss the part that the car did not try to slow down.
No where does it say she didn't look and just walked out into the street.

The car was also speeding. 40 in a 35.

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No, I didn't. That supports that she stepped right in front of the car. There was no time to react or slow down.

holbritter said:

No, I didn't. That supports that she stepped right in front of the car. There was no time to react or slow down.

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there is nothing in the article that suggests that at all.
you are making stuff up that doesn't exist at this point.

you are assuming facts not in evidence.

brothern said:

I don't know, but it's the same answer as who'd be sued for other automated machinery. Elevators, for example. Used to be manually operated and now are all "self-driving."

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Yes, and we used to have lamp-lighters too before streetlamps ran on electricity and switched-on by photocell. Everything in life is all exactly the same isn't it?

That's why no one pilots airplanes anymore either, the airplanes can fly on autopilot and everyone feels much safer with no one to actually pay attention since nothing ever goes wrong and autopilots fly better than real pilots.

Gaius46 said:

Until it breaks. An autopilot can fly the entire trip from the moment the plane takes the runway until it exits at it's destination. And it'll do it more accurately and probably more smoothly than any human can. Until something unforeseen comes up. Machines can't replicate human decision making and human's ability to improvise. And won't any time soon.

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Exactly, I once flew aboard an Air National Guard C-124 in which both the pilot and co-pilot had climbed down the cockpit entrance ladder while in flight to the cargo deck leaving only the navigator and flight engineer in the cockpit. (ladder pictured below is how the crew enters the cockpit.)



I climbed the ladder myself and found what I assumed was the pilot's teen-aged daughter in the pilots seat, co-pilots seat empty.

I informed the crew that a single circuit breaker was the only thing that stood between smooth level flight and all control surfaces slamming hard-over to their extreme mechanical stops (up or down, left or right, etc). That autopilot could not be overpowered and there would have been no way for the crew to get back in the cockpit with the aircraft completely out of control.

I was only the E-4 that maintained autopilots and they were officers who knew better than me. But they did quickly get back into the cockpit

SirGareth said:

Exactly, I once flew aboard an Air National Guard C-124 in which both the pilot and co-pilot had climbed down the cockpit entrance ladder while in flight to the cargo deck leaving only the navigator and flight engineer in the cockpit. (ladder pictured below is how the crew enters the cockpit.)

View attachment 67230370

I climbed the ladder myself and found what I assumed was the pilot's teen-aged daughter in the pilots seat, co-pilots seat empty.

I informed the crew that a single circuit breaker was the only thing that stood between smooth level flight and all control surfaces slamming hard-over to their extreme mechanical stops (up or down, left or right, etc). That autopilot could not be overpowered and there would have been no way for the crew to get back in the cockpit with the aircraft completely out of control.

I was only the E-4 that maintained autopilots and they were officers who knew better than me. But they did quickly get back into the cockpit

View attachment 67230371

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Autopilots are wonderful critters that reduce workload and allow the pilot to concentrate on other things. Just don't trust them.

brothern said:

Morning commute. You've put your complete trust in the fact that several hundred individuals, who are also on the road, are both alert and abiding by safe driving practices. However we what know is that, for example, most individuals are chronically sleep deprived: see this CDC research. That impacts safety and is one factor (of many) that drives our high traffic fatalities rate.

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I don't know about you but I trust no one. I assume everyone on the road is out to kill me, if only unintentionally, and plan accordingly.

brothern said:

So is riding a horse (enjoyable, I mean), but it's pretty rare that you see individuals commuting to their 9-5 on horseback.

I don't doubt that clear answer w/r/t automated cars will also be full adaptation.

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Much as I like horses, horse poop is a bit of an issue, especially in big cities.

Gaius46 said:

Much as I like horses, horse poop is a bit of an issue, especially in big cities.

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The infrastructure is not here to support full automation, we will have to recreate at least 100 years of infrastructure from scratch and for what?

We would need to completely isolate all roads from pedestrian and bicycle areas.

SirGareth said:

Yes, and we used to have lamp-lighters too before streetlamps ran on electricity and switched-on by photocell. Everything in life is all exactly the same isn't it?

That's why no one pilots airplanes anymore either, the airplanes can fly on autopilot and everyone feels much safer with no one to actually pay attention since nothing ever goes wrong and autopilots fly better than real pilots.

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You do know that the A320/319/321/A330/A350 is one of the most in use aircraft families in the world today, and they are all fly by wire.

The crash you are alluding to has absolutely nothing to do with auto pilot, you really made a terrible posting which shows your ignorance about airplanes.

So, I watched the video of the crash from inside and outside of the cab. The driver was coming off of the Mill avenue bridge just passing the Marquee theater. The woman was walking her bike in the middle of the street, no where near the crosswalk. She could have been killed by anyone driving that route. The guy in the car should have noticed earlier, but she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think after looking at the video that the family of the dead has the opportunity for a huge payday from Uber.

beefheart said:

So, I watched the video of the crash from inside and outside of the cab. The driver was coming off of the Mill avenue bridge just passing the Marquee theater. The woman was walking her bike in the middle of the street, no where near the crosswalk. She could have been killed by anyone driving that route. The guy in the car should have noticed earlier, but she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Uber self-driving crash: Footage shows moment before impact - BBC News

I watched the 2 videos - from the car to the road in front & of the 'driver'. The woman, at night, was jaywalking her bike right in front of him with no light or reflective clothing. Anyone could have hit her. But the driver is shown looking down, not out the windshield. He may have been texting. At the last instant he shows a shocked expression.

JacksinPA said:

Uber self-driving crash: Footage shows moment before impact - BBC News

I watched the 2 videos - from the car to the road in front & of the 'driver'. The woman, at night, was jaywalking her bike right in front of him with no light or reflective clothing. Anyone could have hit her. But the driver is shown looking down, not out the windshield. He may have been texting. At the last instant he shows a shocked expression.

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Driver was a she! Yeah, she should have been looking out, but that biker really put herself in danger.

beefheart said:

Driver was a she! Yeah, she should have been looking out, but that biker really put herself in danger.

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The driver in the video I watched was a middle-aged man.

JacksinPA said:

The driver in the video I watched was a middle-aged man.

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Herzberg appeared to be looking away from the oncoming vehicle, while an in-car camera shows Uber driver Rafaela Vasquez looking down at something below the dashboard, out of view of the camera, before the collision.

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https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2018/03/22/what-went-wrong-uber-volvo-fatal-crash-tempe-technology-failure/446407002/

Originally Posted by JacksinPA The driver in the video I watched was a middle-aged man.

Herzberg appeared to be looking away from the oncoming vehicle, while an in-car camera shows Uber driver Rafaela Vasquez looking down at something below the dashboard, out of view of the camera, before the collision."

beefheart said:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/mon...tal-crash-tempe-technology-failure/446407002/

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What was Rafaela looking downward to an area near his hands?

Were Rafaela's hands in front of her stomach? What was Rafaela doing with her hands?

Is the responsible driver of a self-driving auto required to pay full time an attention to the roadway?

Is it OK to play video games while on auto pilot?

It seems that Elaine Herzberg, RIP, was not looing at Rafaela's car, during the time Elaine was in front of Rafaela's car, just prior to impact.

Who sets the speed in Uber's Self Driving car?

What was the speed limit, for Rafaela, and how fast was Rafaela traveling during the 15 seconds before impact?


What was the Auto-driving speed set to, and how much variance in speed was normal/needed for the Volvo/Uber?


Was there some reason Elaine thought the lane was clear, where Rafaela was traveling, caused by some intervening action by others?

How far to the nearest crosswalk?

Was the City responsible for having more crosswalks?


The video camera does not show Elaine as visible coming from the left side, across approaching lanes. This vide0 may be misleading as to imply that Elaine would not have been visible to a human eye, had Rafeal's eyes been looking ahead, instead of downward.




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Gladiator said:

Originally Posted by JacksinPA The driver in the video I watched was a middle-aged man.

Herzberg appeared to be looking away from the oncoming vehicle, while an in-car camera shows Uber driver Rafaela Vasquez looking down at something below the dashboard, out of view of the camera, before the collision."





What was Rafaela looking downward to an area near his hands?

Were Rafaela's hands in front of her stomach? What was Rafaela doing with her hands?

Is the responsible driver of a self-driving auto required to pay full time an attention to the roadway?

Is it OK to play video games while on auto pilot?

It seems that Elaine Herzberg, RIP, was not looing at Rafaela's car, during the time Elaine was in front of Rafaela's car, just prior to impact.

Who sets the speed in Uber's Self Driving car?

What was the speed limit, for Rafaela, and how fast was Rafaela traveling during the 15 seconds before impact?


What was the Auto-driving speed set to, and how much variance in speed was normal/needed for the Volvo/Uber?


Was there some reason Elaine thought the lane was clear, where Rafaela was traveling, caused by some intervening action by others?

How far to the nearest crosswalk?

Was the City responsible for having more crosswalks?


The video camera does not show Elaine as visible coming from the left side, across approaching lanes. This vide0 may be misleading as to imply that Elaine would not have been visible to a human eye, had Rafeal's eyes been looking ahead, instead of downward.




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I just rode my bike past that area. There is a big divider in the road full of desert plants...except in the middle of it where there is paving stone. The biker walked out from there. If a human was driving, they would have hit the woman at 30 mph, same result.

Once I saw the video it was obvious it wasn't the Uber factor. A human driver would have also hit that person.

beefheart said:

I just rode my bike past that area. There is a big divider in the road full of desert plants...except in the middle of it where there is paving stone. The biker walked out from there. If a human was driving, they would have hit the woman at 30 mph, same result.

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Is there a way to know if Elaine Herzberg, RIP, had stopped at the edge of the Median, waiting for traffic to clear, before starting to cross in front of Rafaela/Uber?

What was the height of the desert plants in the median?

If Elaine had walked her bike across the median at a normal walking pace, would at least her head and shoulders been visible above the plants, for 5 feet before reaching the curb, was it, Mill Avenue?

When I am driving, and I see a person is standing by the road, apparently trying to cross, without a crosswalk, I will sometimes stop to let the person cross. The person waves, "Thanks" and crosses in front of me. What are Uber's standards for pedestrian courtesy?

Is there any way to tell if the Rafaela/Uber Volvo had any turn signals flashing, during the 20 Seconds before the crash?

Is there any way that Elaine could have formed the idea that the Rafaela/Uber Volvo was stopping or turning?


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