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Trump to unveil opioid plan seeking death penalty for drug dealers: White House

JacksinPA said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-strikes-law-halt-overdose-rescues/434920001/

Ohio councilman: After 2 overdoses, no more EMS

An Ohio town has been so overwhelmed by drug overdose emergencies that a councilman proposed a three-strikes penalty so EMS would not respond to an overdose victim who has required two previous interventions.

Middletown City Council member Dan Picard told the local Journal-News that arresting those who overdose on heroin or other drugs adds to the problem by straining the city budget, jail and court system.

(Picard is a Republican).
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"... Conversely, receiving a dose of this life-saving drug plunges addicts into immediate, overwhelming withdrawal symptoms. Melissa Tucci, a heroin user who’s been revived by first responders several times explains the loathsome nature of Narcan: “…[You] vomit, ..."

Yup; I agree with Picard.
 
Barnacle said:
"... Conversely, receiving a dose of this life-saving drug plunges addicts into immediate, overwhelming withdrawal symptoms. Melissa Tucci, a heroin user who’s been revived by first responders several times explains the loathsome nature of Narcan: “…[You] vomit, ..."

Yup; I agree with Picard.
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With you we're up to 3. Maybe we should take a poll.
 
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/a...is-overdosing-ohioans-my-guys-have-no-n780666

Ohio Sheriff Says His Officers Won’t Carry Narcan

The sheriff of one opioid-ravaged Ohio county is refusing to equip his deputies with Narcan, the drug that has saved the lives of countless overdosing addicts.

Butler County Sheriff Richard K. Jones insists he is not heartless but says requiring deputies to administer the remedy puts them in danger and the cost of repeatedly treating people with Narcan is “sucking the taxpayers dry.”

"All we're doing is reviving them, we’re not curing them," Jones told NBC News on Friday. "One person we know has been revived 20 separate times."

But, Jones hastened to add, "We don’t go there and let people die."
 
Because the so called War on Drugs needs a new round of escalation... sigh.
 
JacksinPA said:
Perhaps not but my neighbor & that councilman make 2 who prefer to let the victims die.
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That's just what I mean--two Republicans you happen to know doesn't equal even a majority of Republicans, much less all of them.

Whoever these guys are, they're individual cases of arrested development, and my bet is that if they were moderate or liberal or anarchist or whatever, they would still be what they are and that only the particulars would differ.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ty-for-drug-dealers-white-house-idUSKBN1GU10P

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump will unveil a plan on Monday to combat the opioid addiction crisis that includes seeking the death penalty for drug dealers and urging Congress to toughen sentencing laws for drug traffickers, White House officials said on Sunday.
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If this gets legislated it will likely be tied up in the courts for years. To quote Gilbert & Sullivan's operetta 'The Mikado': Let the punishment fit the crime.
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These guys peddle **** that kills thousands of people a day.
If that doesn't fit the bill for pre-meditated murder then what does?
 
We don't know at this point what Trump's proposal will be. Tomorrow we will have more substantive information. Even then tomorrow will be a trial run of sorts, a first draft.

We might assume that Trump has been advised - heavily - by Big Pharma. I hope not though I am pessimistic for the time being. If Big Pharma has its way with Trump the proposed solution will likely be large on law enforcement and incarceration of illegal drug sales and use and light on the legal sale and use of legal opioids.

America has one hell of a lot of people in prison on drug related offenses. Certainly some deserve to be there. America needs a strong, major, national rehabilitation effort. That won't likely happen. National commitment = money.

I'll have to look but not long ago I read an article that stated that studies have found a significantly lower recidivism rate among addicts who received quality rehabilitation compared to stiffer prison sentences.

Most of us know people who are/have been addicted to opioids. None of the people I know want to be addicted. Prison is a limited deterrent.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Because the so called War on Drugs needs a new round of escalation... sigh.
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People are dying in the streets because of that crap. So yea let's just legalize it and see
How many more die.

Jail is not helping them get clean or get the dealers off the street.
They are back at it or someone replaces them.
 
Risky Thicket said:
We don't know at this point what Trump's proposal will be. Tomorrow we will have more substantive information. Even then tomorrow will be a trial run of sorts, a first draft.

We might assume that Trump has been advised - heavily - by Big Pharma. I hope not though I am pessimistic for the time being. If Big Pharma has its way with Trump the proposed solution will likely be large on law enforcement and incarceration of illegal drug sales and use and light on the legal sale and use of legal opioids.

America has one hell of a lot of people in prison on drug related offenses. Certainly some deserve to be there. America needs a strong, major, national rehabilitation effort. That won't likely happen. National commitment = money.

I'll have to look but not long ago I read an article that stated that studies have found a significantly lower recidivism rate among addicts who received quality rehabilitation compared to stiffer prison sentences.

Most of us know people who are/have been addicted to opioids. None of the people I know want to be addicted. Prison is a limited deterrent.
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Sounds like it is stiffer penalties for people that deal rather than use.
 
ludin said:
People are dying in the streets because of that crap. So yea let's just legalize it and see
How many more die.
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People who want to use a drug do. Laws don't stop them. There's no reason to believe that legalization would increase users. Gun laws, like gun free zones, don't stop criminals and drug laws don't stop addicts.
 
ecofarm said:
People who want to use a drug do. Laws don't stop them. There's no reason to believe that legalization would increase users. Gun laws, like gun free zones, don't stop criminals and drug laws don't stop addicts.
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The drug laws are not there to stop adicts. They are there mostly for drugs and dealers.
There is a reason that crack and opioids are banned substances.

They are dangerous and lethal not just to the addictive but to the area they exist in.
 
ludin said:
Sounds like it is stiffer penalties for people that deal rather than use.
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Part of the problem, I think, is that addicts eventually deal if they can't get clean or if they can't support their habit legally.

A quick example. We know a couple socially - or did, and they are no longer married. We'd see them occasionally through friends. She was nice enough but I though he was a little weird when we first met them. I talked to him a bit as he was formerly in USAF in Security Forces. We had that in common though I am older. He'd done a couple of tours in the Middle East. We talked shop a bit. We ran into them at football game a few months later and chatted a little.

Maybe 6 months later my wife heard from a mutual friend that the guy was addicted to heroin. He had been able to hide it from his wife until they went on a big vacation out of the country. He couldn't take it with him so apparently he had to try to find it in London when they arrived. He had to 'fess up with her at that point.

Cut to the chase. Last we heard they are divorced. He sold everything of value in the house one weekend when she went to see her parents. At some point he apparently broke into his parent's house and stole loads of stuff and sold all that. He lost his job somewhere along the way. She had a restraining order against him when she sold the house and moved out of state to try to distance herself from him. Last word was he is dealing, wanted on several charges in Arizona and is now a fugitive out of state.

There is no way anyone could convince me the guy is living the life he wants to live. He has lost everything. He is now a fugitive. His future looks pretty bleak.

I don't know the guy well but I have little doubt he wishes he could turn the clock back and get at least one foot out of hell. IF good rehab counseling had been easily available to him when he first became addicted he might have gotten his **** together early on. Now? He is a fugitive who has lost everything and is dealing. He's going to be spending time in prison for sure and should.

He addiction is costing a lot of people money including the citizens of Arizona and whatever state he is in now. Then there's the prison time citizens are going to pay for and then there is whatever is left of his life after prison. It's doubtful he'll be contributing much in taxes.

Could that guy be straightened out and have his life turned around? If he spends time in an Arizona prison probably not. Someday he'll be back on the street and is likely going to return to the crap he came from. I would much rather pay taxes for accessible counseling and rehab before and during his incarceration than continue to pay for his broken life again and again.
 
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Is his kingdom, even of this world?

Last week's poll..... and bear in mind, back in October... Trump's Opioid Crisis Speech Echos Reagan's Just Say No PSA | Time

https://www.debatepolitics.com/poll...nt-but-insisted-doj-fbi-judiciary-biased.html
Rational?: U.S. chief LEO urges broader capitol punishment but insisted DOJ, FBI, Judiciary biased,

....not to mention he habitually accuses the most prominent print and electronic news media of lying, reporting fake news.
If you find the rhetoric of the president resonating as coherent, reasonable, especially with regard to his praise/citing of China dictator
Xi, (and extrajudicial policies of Duterte, Erdogan, and Putin) as he urges expansion of capital punishment, an irrevocable punishment determined
by the same investigative and judicial authorities he has declared unreliable, untrustworthy, corrupt, please share why this makes sense to you.
IOW, if the news media is by and large, fake, and the judges, investigators, and prosecutors biased to the degree this president repeatedly accuses
them of being, how does he expect there will be transparency and accountability as to determination of guilt rising to a level justifying execution,
and where does it end? If this "law and order," messaging is not rational, are political dissidents or losing political candidates at increasing risk of investigation and prosecution?.....
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ludin said:
People are dying in the streets because of that crap. So yea let's just legalize it and see
How many more die.
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You advocate legalized euthanasia. Sort of a modern day Social Darwinism by injection. Survival of the fittest. Charming thought.
 
JacksinPA said:
You advocate legalized euthanasia. Sort of a modern day Social Darwinism by injection. Survival of the fittest. Charming thought.
Click to expand...

Here's the front page of i24news right now.
Segment earlier tonight on Israel completing phase two of MDMA therapy for advanced PTSD; 68% positive; still early.
https://www.i24news.tv/en
This is what I don't see from USA sources, such as everything foreign policy, especially ours.
TV is on an historic segment this hour, after several hours of tough stuff to listen to.
 
NIMBY said:
Here's the front page of i24news right now.

.....This is what I don't see from USA sources, such as everything foreign policy, especially ours.
....
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Are you saying our government no longer has a foreign policy, does have one but does not communicate it, or
at least not in a co-ordinated fashion, or that US MSM has cut back on coverage of it, or are you making some other point?
 
First, I am a bit reticent to respond.
I still had 3 years to go as a teacher when you joined DP and didn't join Politico until 2010.
A bunch of us came here when they went Facebook.

post said:
Are you saying our government no longer has a foreign policy, does have one but does not communicate it, or
at least not in a co-ordinated fashion, or that US MSM has cut back on coverage of it, or are you making some other point?
Click to expand...

To answer your questions, 95% yes; 95% does not; 95% not; the last two need an explanation.
US MSM is consumed with repetitive news almost bereft of any quality discussion on foreign policy.

I stumbled on i24news searching my local cable.
I can't keep up with taking notes on every foreign policy topic they bring up.
It's become obviously clear to me that Syria is ground zero in the ME, with Russia controlling the ME.

When i24news covers USA domestic affairs, they do it in a far more coherent and clear manner ...
 
NIMBY said:
First, I am a bit reticent to respond.
I still had 3 years to go as a teacher when you joined DP and didn't join Politico until 2010.
A bunch of us came here when they went Facebook.



To answer your questions, 95% yes; 95% does not; 95% not; the last two need an explanation.
US MSM is consumed with repetitive news almost bereft of any quality discussion on foreign policy.

I stumbled on i24news searching my local cable.
I can't keep up with taking notes on every foreign policy topic they bring up.
It's become obviously clear to me that Syria is ground zero in the ME, with Russia controlling the ME.

When i24news covers USA domestic affairs, they do it in a far more coherent and clear manner ...
Click to expand...

I appreciate your candor, but I only asked you for clarification because I was startled earlier tonight in the process of putting together
a post on another thread. My experience is more of a researcher than a political or foreign policy debater, commenter, or persuader.
In the spectrum, I identify left of Bernie Sanders in my political philosophy, but my contempt towards blue dog democrats like
former US Senator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanche_Lincoln has given way to the practicality the research I do instills in me.
The first senate vote of newly minted Alabama democrat Doug Jones was, for example, with the republicans. The ACA would not
have managed 60 votes if former senator Blanche Lincoln (D-Arkansas) had not held the seat, demanding corporatist bribes
in exchange for her yes vote. Blue dog democrats can and will determine if there is democratic control of a legislative branch
and more importantly, control of committees. I don't see pragmatism emphasized by the bulk of Bernie's supporters and likely
this blind spot set the stage for a Trump presidency.

I signed up here at the suggestion of a member of DP who was also a member of another forum with a politics section I became too
involved in. I did not vote for Obama after I joined DP but I no longer felt inspired to post about politics after the Cheney-Bush era.
Before the 2000 Florida vote debacle, my last focus on politics ended with the 1980 Reagan victory.

Assembling my post about the hollowing out of government, I learned tonight, counting the secretary, there are nine State Department secretarial positions in total. A Trump appointee named Sullivan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._Sullivan_(diplomat) holds both Deputy Secretary positions and is now also interim secretary after Tillerson's firing.

Four of the six assistant secretary slots have been vacant since Jan., 2017, one is manned by an interim, Obama holdover, and the sixth slot, since last week, by an interim designate, recently from Fox and Friends. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Nauert 44 ambassador slots are vacant.


In reaction, I posted the question, "Has a not yet announced coup already taken place?"
post said:
Is it likely a coup has already happened and just not been announced? It doesn't seem it even has to be announced until an Nov., 2018 election
result persuades some (especially MSM and democrats) to assume party majority of a congressional branch will change in Jan., 2019.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/poll...-his-devoted-supporters-4.html#post1068299902
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JacksinPA said:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ty-for-drug-dealers-white-house-idUSKBN1GU10P

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump will unveil a plan on Monday to combat the opioid addiction crisis that includes seeking the death penalty for drug dealers and urging Congress to toughen sentencing laws for drug traffickers, White House officials said on Sunday.
========================================================================
If this gets legislated it will likely be tied up in the courts for years. To quote Gilbert & Sullivan's operetta 'The Mikado': Let the punishment fit the crime.
Click to expand...

He's coming to NH today (the "drug infested den") to pitch his new plan. I don't know a single fellow Republican who has any interest in seeing or hearing him.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Part of the problem, I think, is that addicts eventually deal if they can't get clean or if they can't support their habit legally.

A quick example. We know a couple socially - or did, and they are no longer married. We'd see them occasionally through friends. She was nice enough but I though he was a little weird when we first met them. I talked to him a bit as he was formerly in USAF in Security Forces. We had that in common though I am older. He'd done a couple of tours in the Middle East. We talked shop a bit. We ran into them at football game a few months later and chatted a little.

Maybe 6 months later my wife heard from a mutual friend that the guy was addicted to heroin. He had been able to hide it from his wife until they went on a big vacation out of the country. He couldn't take it with him so apparently he had to try to find it in London when they arrived. He had to 'fess up with her at that point.

Cut to the chase. Last we heard they are divorced. He sold everything of value in the house one weekend when she went to see her parents. At some point he apparently broke into his parent's house and stole loads of stuff and sold all that. He lost his job somewhere along the way. She had a restraining order against him when she sold the house and moved out of state to try to distance herself from him. Last word was he is dealing, wanted on several charges in Arizona and is now a fugitive out of state.

There is no way anyone could convince me the guy is living the life he wants to live. He has lost everything. He is now a fugitive. His future looks pretty bleak.
Click to expand...

You can't say that. There are numerous centers for drug addiction and help to overcome drug addiction in the US. If he wanted to get help he could have gotten it.
The fact is he isn't unique. You look at a lot of drug addicts they are not poor people. They were doctors, lawyers and other people of high soceity that got addicted and then
lost it all for a fix. This idiotic mentality that drugs are safe and ok and don't hurt people is ignorance at it's finest.

it destroys families, it destroys neighborhoods. there is nothing good about drug abuse.

I don't know the guy well but I have little doubt he wishes he could turn the clock back and get at least one foot out of hell. IF good rehab counseling had been easily available to him when he first became addicted he might have gotten his **** together early on. Now? He is a fugitive who has lost everything and is dealing. He's going to be spending time in prison for sure and should.

He addiction is costing a lot of people money including the citizens of Arizona and whatever state he is in now. Then there's the prison time citizens are going to pay for and then there is whatever is left of his life after prison. It's doubtful he'll be contributing much in taxes.

Could that guy be straightened out and have his life turned around? If he spends time in an Arizona prison probably not. Someday he'll be back on the street and is likely going to return to the crap he came from. I would much rather pay taxes for accessible counseling and rehab before and during his incarceration than continue to pay for his broken life again and again.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of programs available. I am sure his ex-wife urged him to get help and check into rehab. he simply didn't want to.
the fix is better than the cure that is the problem.
 
JacksinPA said:
You advocate legalized euthanasia. Sort of a modern day Social Darwinism by injection. Survival of the fittest. Charming thought.
Click to expand...

Your strawman blew that way you better run and get it.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ty-for-drug-dealers-white-house-idUSKBN1GU10P

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump will unveil a plan on Monday to combat the opioid addiction crisis that includes seeking the death penalty for drug dealers and urging Congress to toughen sentencing laws for drug traffickers, White House officials said on Sunday.
========================================================================
If this gets legislated it will likely be tied up in the courts for years. To quote Gilbert & Sullivan's operetta 'The Mikado': Let the punishment fit the crime.
Click to expand...

Awww, Widdle Trumpie is trying to be just like his hero dictator Duterte. How Vogue.
 
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