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Kim Jong Un Invites the U.S. to Meet

My expectation is that we will keep our end of the deal, and they won't. I'd only do it if they got nothing until they denuked. I think they desperately need money and that is why they are doing this. We don't need to do anything.

Your "expectation" isn't exactly warranted based on the history of the United States of America.

The odds on the government of the DPRK agreeing to any "deal" which consisted of "After the DPRK has done absolutely everything that the US government demands it do (the determination of which shall be solely at the discretion of the US government), and proves that it is not doing anything that the US government demands that it not do (the determination of which shall be solely at the discretion of the US government), then the US government shall implement whichever measures it determines to be appropriate to reduce the sanctions against the government of the DPRK (with the US government having complete freedom to change that determination at any time." are not incredibly high.
 
LOL, so, you approve of the CIA & Norman Schwarzkopf training the first gen of SAVAK, the Shah's 'death squad?'

Yeah, we love our freedom, don't we? ............... especially when it comes at the expense of others ..........

Lol, so you buy into the fantasies do you? The fact remains that while the SAVAK were hardly choir boys, they were far better than the nutjobs who have been running the country since the "Revolution". Especially given the fact that a big part of why the Islamic fundies were so upset is because the Shah was modernizing the country.

Yep, and supporting those who make damn sure their people don't have any freedom has been an anti American staple for decades.
 
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The Shah, looking at it from a distance, was responsible for the thugs that came after him. You know how history works- extreme begets extreme. And kicking Saddam out of Kuwait wasn't because the country was better off under the Emir.
As for the whining, if you tell Kim he can't have nukes and don't back it up, who's whining?

Uh.....it's pretty clear that the emir of Kuwait was far better for the country than becoming a part of Saddam's little snake pit, especially given his tendency for mass murder and mismanagement.

Except the Shah wasn't particularly extreme in the first place, especially not by Middle Eastern standards.

But we can back it up; it's a question of if we will.
 
Saudi Arabia is a pretty brutal dictatorship which is big sponsor of terrorism. And yes, slave labour is rife in SA.

Which, while bad, is nowhere near the level of the North Korean camps. Nobody's really provided convincing evidence that the Saudi government, rather than wealthy or well connected Saudi individuals, played a role in helping groups like AQ organize attacks.

And no, Saudi Arabia, unlike North Korea and its ilk, does not make a habit of threatening to murder millions of innocent people.
 
Your "expectation" isn't exactly warranted based on the history of the United States of America.

The odds on the government of the DPRK agreeing to any "deal" which consisted of "After the DPRK has done absolutely everything that the US government demands it do (the determination of which shall be solely at the discretion of the US government), and proves that it is not doing anything that the US government demands that it not do (the determination of which shall be solely at the discretion of the US government), then the US government shall implement whichever measures it determines to be appropriate to reduce the sanctions against the government of the DPRK (with the US government having complete freedom to change that determination at any time." are not incredibly high.

Good, they don't have to agree to anything and we can keep the sanctions going. No problem.
 
Well hopefully this will turn out to be a positive. I don't trust NK in the least, so I don't know what their real goal/intentions here are. I just hope that we handle it well and can bring some positive changes through it.

Everyone hopes that this will turn out to be a positive. Unfortunately not everyone has the same definition of "positive".

When you say "I don't trust NK in the least, so I don't know what their real goal/intentions here are." you likely have it backwards and don't trust them BECAUSE you don't know what their real goal/intentions are.

I can assure you that one of the goals of the DPRK is NOT to start a nuclear (or any) war with the United States of America. I can base that assurance on two grounds

  1. the DPRK is fully aware that it has absolutely no chance of defeating the US in any war; and
  2. the DPRK is fully aware that the PLA is one hell of a lot closer to the DPRK than the US Army is.

One of the goals of the government of the DPRK is to have the US government leave the DPRK alone. Another of the goals of the government of the DPRK is the reunification of Korea (this is a goal that it shares with the government of the ROK [the main dispute is over which gang of dishonest thugs ("The DPRKillers" or the "ROKlan") is going to get to run the show and collect all the loot]).
 
It isn't about which is worse. Both countries are horrible violators of human rights. My initial response to you was about how you claimed the U.S. genuinely cares about human rights. We do when it suits us. When there is a strategic alliance to be made it doesn't really matter what the track record of the country is.

Except by any rational standard, North Korea is far worse, which is why the "but Saudi Arabia" argument lacks strength.
 
Uh.....it's pretty clear that the emir of Kuwait was far better for the country than becoming a part of Saddam's little snake pit, especially given his tendency for mass murder and mismanagement.

Except the Shah wasn't particularly extreme in the first place, especially not by Middle Eastern standards.

But we can back it up; it's a question of if we will.

Oh, I know Kuwait was better off under the Emir. I just say that that wasn't the reason for the war. With oil off the table, nobody would care about a few thousand Arabs in a medieval emirate.
And that's my point, about backing up a demand that Kim abandon nukes. If the demand is made and not enforced a huge amount of face is lost, and gained, and that matters very much over there.
 
Lol, so you buy into the fantasies do you? The fact remains that while the SAVAK were hardly choir boys, they were far better than the nutjobs who have been running the country since the "Revolution". Especially given the fact that a big part of why the Islamic fundies were so upset is because the Shah was modernizing the country.

Yep, and supporting those who make damn sure their people don't have any freedom has been an anti American staple for decades.

fantasies? what fantasies?
 
Occupation? :lamo

Actually, most South Koreans are glad there is an armed force standing between them and the Norks.

Actually they are not, particularly younger South Koreans....They want the US Military to draw down or leave altogether .They see their presences as impediment to peace with the North.trump better be prepared to offer such or little chance of "deal" getting done
 
Except by any rational standard, North Korea is far worse, which is why the "but Saudi Arabia" argument lacks strength.

Your claim was that the US respects life and common decency, which is patently untrue given the US's long relationship with SA. Just because N.Korea are worse doesn't mean that SA respects life and decency, thus making your claim that the argument lacks strength clearly untrue.
 
the collective 'mind set' of America is a mind set of arrogance & entitlement; the poisoning of the planet, pretty much ...........

...and its always the other's fault. Everything is justified based on the US merely being the US.

America has had North Korea behind barbed wire and struggling for supplies for 60 years. They developed a nuclear program because they are small and because they have been threatened by every president; the military still teases the North Korean defense system.

Of course they're going to defend themselves. Hell, there are times when I wished Canada had a nuke stockpile, the US doesn't get the message often because everything they do is based in militarism.
 
This is really interesting. I can only assume that a lot has been going on behind the scenes, and I'm not sure what it could be. There is no way this is due to the Twitter battles. I wonder if China finally did tell Kim to knock it off.



It is very hard for Americans to understand because you have not had the on-going commentary of peace initiatives dating back four years.

The North joining the Olympic games with the South had a profound impact for both sides. Since the initiatives began four year s ago, there has been limited reunions with split families, some trade initiatives and, following the games more serious talk.

Americans didn't know any of this because your media only covers what Trump says about the North and none of that even hints at the possibility the North had become friendlier and were seeking peace.

Trump will blow this historic opportunity by insisting on keeping the damaging sanctions in tact and by insisting the US keeps its military where it is.

For the record. This 'peace' probe has been in the works since the Pan Am games a few years ago and have been on-going with the assistance of Japan, Canada, China and other diplomats.
 
Actually they are not, particularly younger South Koreans....They want the US Military to draw down or leave altogether .They see their presences as impediment to peace with the North.trump better be prepared to offer such or little chance of "deal" getting done

That isn't true. Every South Korean male serves at least two years in the ROK Army. They well understand the threat North Korea presents.
 
That isn't true. Every South Korean male serves at least two years in the ROK Army. They well understand the threat North Korea presents.

I've been to South Korea many times...Many are tired of the 65 year US Military presence and feel South Korea is more than capable of defending itself and now they are ready to start negotiating with the North...trump will soon find this out, I imagine most Hardliners in the US will be against it...thus NO deal will be made
 
Trump accepted Kim's invite because he's scared of a porn star, y'all.

 
Joe and Mika are a two-headed idiot monster.
The notion that Trump is so scared of a porn star that he's going to meet with Kim is utterly imbecilic.
 
Objectively, it is good that Trump agreed to a summit with Kim to discuss an agreement on North Korea’s denuclearization on condition Kim just temporarily halt nuclear activities until such an agreement is reached.

That’s all we’ve got right now, but it is much more than we had two days ago.

Until the Winter Olympics we were veritably on the brink of war with North Korea, two or three aircraft carriers floating off the coasts nearby, long range nuclear bombers making recurring practice runs from Guam and Japan, the most advanced fighter jets rehearsing maneuvers with regional allies, ever-increasing sanctions with the US Coast Guard even deploying to intercept freighters illicitly transferring cargo for North Korea on the high seas, while Kim and Trump hurled insults at each other. Hawaii was conducting drills for a nuclear attack, everyone expected a nuclear conflagration imminently.

So Trump’s agreement to summit with Kim is not, objectively, a bad thing.
If Trump doesn’t play his cards wisely, and if his decision to accept Kim’s summit offer was as hasty as the details out in public now suggest, he could risk unnecessarily elevating Kim’s global status, setting up a diplomatic breakdown, and rushing other (possibly military) action to make up for it. https://apnews.com/6b3c8972e0ce4fb6...rong?-Pitfalls-pose-risks-in-Trump,-Kim-talks
Yes, even if they don’t reach an agreement, Kim gains because he will have accomplished recognition of North Korea as a nuclear power just by standing beside Trump. Standing next to Trump doesn’t confer nuclear power status, but doing so at a summit to discuss denuclearization would.

What happens if Trump can't announce Kim has agreed to immediately allow verified dismantling of his nuclear weapons? I'm sure Trump expects to end the summit with such an announcement, an agreement for the verifiable denuclearization of North Korea would be an unquestionable achievement. The details need to be dealt with, this isn't something that can be done quickly, the IAEA has to send inspectors, presumably there'd be a timeline with Kim verifiably destroying the most powerful missiles first, then production facilities and other related installations.
The table was set for the announcement Tuesday when South Korea announced the North had stated there was "no reason" to hold on to its nuclear weapons "if military threats towards the North are cleared and the security of its regime is guaranteed."

In the past North Korea has indicated that security guarantees mean the departure of US forces from the Korean peninsula and the end of a mutual defense treaty with the South. https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kim-hold-historic-meeting-013411522.html
One would expect Kim would demand the US reciprocate with a timeline for US military withdrawal from South Korea, the details here are also complex. A denuclearized North Korea would still be a military threat to South Korea, what military defenses for South Korea should be reasonably allowed? US military presence there functions as a trigger to US intervention if the North attacks, to relinquish that presence would require South Korea retain the capacity to credibly defend itself alone.
 
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I think he finally realized he had no chance of beating the U.S/Trump and is conceding. NK was starving under the Trump sanctions. In order for him to survive, he needed to engage in peace talks.

NK has been starving its people for decades.

Its leadership has never given a ****. And it doenst affect Un in the least...he doesnt go without anything.

His survival is not at risk and I see zero reasons at this point why he would cede ANY of his dictatorial power.
 
Erin Burnett on CNN:If Trump solves the North Korea problem he "would be going down as a great president, and there's no getting around that."

Oh, there's no doubt in my mind that's what's driving The Donald to meet with them.

That does not REMOTELY mean he has a rat's chance in Hell of doing so.
 
Any meeting is better than No meeting....

Wow. Have you ever heard The Donald speak unscripted?? Have you ever read his tweets?
 
Objectively, it is good that Trump agreed to a summit with Kim to discuss an agreement on North Korea’s denuclearization on condition Kim just temporarily halt nuclear activities until such an agreement is reached.

That’s all we’ve got right now, but it is much more than we had two days ago.

Until the Winter Olympics we were veritably on the brink of war with North Korea, two or three aircraft carriers floating off the coasts nearby, long range nuclear bombers making recurring practice runs from Guam and Japan, the most advanced fighter jets rehearsing maneuvers with regional allies, ever-increasing sanctions with the US Coast Guard even deploying to intercept freighters illicitly transferring cargo for North Korea on the high seas, while Kim and Trump hurled insults at each other. Hawaii was conducting drills for a nuclear attack, everyone expected a nuclear conflagration imminently.

So Trump’s agreement to summit with Kim is not, objectively, a bad thing.

Yes, even if they don’t reach an agreement, Kim gains because he will have accomplished recognition of North Korea as a nuclear power just by standing beside Trump. Standing next to Trump doesn’t confer nuclear power status, but doing so at a summit to discuss denuclearization would.

What happens if Trump can't announce Kim has agreed to immediately allow verified dismantling of his nuclear weapons?

Pulling this off is going to be very tricky. There are so many things that could derail the meeting.
 
Wow. Have you ever heard The Donald speak unscripted?? Have you ever read his tweets?

Trump is at his best extemporaneously.
And there's no uh...uh....ah...uh...uh....eh....uh...
 
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We are not remotely in a position to defeat China on economic grounds. We owe them trillions.
 
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