Former Trump aide Sam Nunberg says he will not comply with special counsel Mueller's subpoena[W:512]

Re: Former Trump aide Sam Nunberg says he will not comply with special counsel Mueller's subpoena

Chomsky said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "medicating"? Do you mean self-medicating due to some psych issue?

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Yes.

A fundamental aspect of recognizing addiction is the "why" they use it. Many things are pretty standard from very low self esteem to early child abuse; schizophrenia in varying degrees to the simple pain and humiliation of poverty.

Alcohol leads all other substances for "market penetration", it is estimated AA sees about 15% of the cases in the world and 25% of them never get clean and sober.

The failure of many for-profit treatment centers is that there is little to no focus on the spiritual aspect, what is referred to as "higher power", and, because of that their therapists do not understand the real causes of addiction. Even in one of the centers I attend, at least one of of the practitioners understands what is a "trigger" for a user, conflating the smell of marijuana as a trigger for a Schixophrenic client to 'go out."

The medical profession doesn't understand it either, and is almost useless in recognizing early signs of substance abuse and behavior

Re: Former Trump aide Sam Nunberg says he will not comply with special counsel Mueller's subpoena

Fearandloathing said:

Yes.

A fundamental aspect of recognizing addiction is the "why" they use it. Many things are pretty standard from very low self esteem to early child abuse; schizophrenia in varying degrees to the simple pain and humiliation of poverty.

Alcohol leads all other substances for "market penetration", it is estimated AA sees about 15% of the cases in the world and 25% of them never get clean and sober.

The failure of many for-profit treatment centers is that there is little to no focus on the spiritual aspect, what is referred to as "higher power", and, because of that their therapists do not understand the real causes of addiction. Even in one of the centers I attend, at least one of of the practitioners understands what is a "trigger" for a user, conflating the smell of marijuana as a trigger for a Schixophrenic client to 'go out."

The medical profession doesn't understand it either, and is almost useless in recognizing early signs of substance abuse and behavior

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I might agree, then.

But I must also point-out, from some recent psychiatric thought I've seen, that apparently we are also wired with a natural desire to get high. That's where I was implying the "thrill seeker" phenomenon, often seen in youth. From my own youth I can attest that in almost of every instance where me & my buddies got into some form of trouble, it was often preceded by discussion of, "I'm bored. What do you want to do?". This pattern was common enough, that I actually warned my kids about it when they were young so they could watch out!

But you are right, in that for some reason some of us end-up preferring the intoxicated state, which of course can then can progress to additional social problems & even physical dependencies, too.

Re: Former Trump aide Sam Nunberg says he will not comply with special counsel Mueller's subpoena

Chomsky said:

I might agree, then.

But I must also point-out, from some recent psychiatric thought I've seen, that apparently we are also wired with a natural desire to get high. That's where I was implying the "thrill seeker" phenomenon, often seen in youth. From my own youth I can attest that in almost of every instance where me & my buddies got into some form of trouble, it was often preceded by discussion of, "I'm bored. What do you want to do?". This pattern was common enough, that I actually warned my kids about it when they were young so they could watch out!

But you are right, in that for some reason some of us end-up preferring the intoxicated state, which of course can then can progress to additional social problems & even physical dependencies, too.

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One, I have never encountered a psychiatrist who had even a basic working knowledge of alcoholism.

I agree, humans like thrills. But the explanation is too crude to explain why some thrill seekers out grow it and some do not. And that is where the rubber meets the road, and one that has never withstood simple explanation; how is it the my cousin has never been able to get more than a few months clean and sober, and there is not one sign of alcoholism in his entire family?

Meanwhile another cousin on my dad's side quit drinking with the birth of his first child (some say a spiritual experience) and never went back, while the rest of his family went down.

How is it that like me the disease can lay dormant for 20 years, while the rest of my family was full on alcoholic, I hated being drunk, but approaching middle age it exploded and took me down in a few years? Or that my grandfather was an alcoholic, a bootlegger in the dry era, and so was my father...but not my grandfathers two other children.

The reality is we don't know and likely won't, at least in my lifetime. With the explosion of fentynal and bodies piling up, there is no research at all. There is not enough resources to adequately treat the disease let alone do research.

The question for me after nearly 27 years is why does AA work for some, and not others? What I see the difference as is an inability to conceive of a higher power. And at that makes it spiritual. For some reason, while having walked with newcomers for 20 years I looked forward to my "retirement" from "sponsoring" others. Only my "retirement" finds me in the art community and the mentally ill, and am almost surrounded by those who AA could not help.

There is a God, and He has a fantastic sense of humor.

Re: Former Trump aide Sam Nunberg says he will not comply with special counsel Mueller's subpoena

Fearandloathing said:

One, I have never encountered a psychiatrist who had even a basic working knowledge of alcoholism.

I agree, humans like thrills. But the explanation is too crude to explain why some thrill seekers out grow it and some do not. And that is where the rubber meets the road, and one that has never withstood simple explanation; how is it the my cousin has never been able to get more than a few months clean and sober, and there is not one sign of alcoholism in his entire family?

Meanwhile another cousin on my dad's side quit drinking with the birth of his first child (some say a spiritual experience) and never went back, while the rest of his family went down.

How is it that like me the disease can lay dormant for 20 years, while the rest of my family was full on alcoholic, I hated being drunk, but approaching middle age it exploded and took me down in a few years? Or that my grandfather was an alcoholic, a bootlegger in the dry era, and so was my father...but not my grandfathers two other children.

The reality is we don't know and likely won't, at least in my lifetime. With the explosion of fentynal and bodies piling up, there is no research at all. There is not enough resources to adequately treat the disease let alone do research.

The question for me after nearly 27 years is why does AA work for some, and not others? What I see the difference as is an inability to conceive of a higher power. And at that makes it spiritual. For some reason, while having walked with newcomers for 20 years I looked forward to my "retirement" from "sponsoring" others. Only my "retirement" finds me in the art community and the mentally ill, and am almost surrounded by those who AA could not help.

There is a God, and He has a fantastic sense of humor.

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Interesting and illuminating post here F & L, thanks.

My understanding of alcoholism, is that there's a strong genetic pre-disposition to alcoholism. But it lays dormant, unless woken-up. Of course the waking-up period can very greatly. It can strike randomly in a family even with predisposition. If your family has a predisposition, you're best advised not to drink. And even if your family has high-incidence and a strong predisposition, don't drink & you're fine.

Re: Former Trump aide Sam Nunberg says he will not comply with special counsel Mueller's subpoena

Chomsky said:

Interesting and illuminating post here F & L, thanks.

My understanding of alcoholism, is that there's a strong genetic pre-disposition to alcoholism. But it lays dormant, unless woken-up. Of course the waking-up period can very greatly. It can strike randomly in a family even with predisposition. If your family has a predisposition, you're best advised not to drink. And even if your family has high-incidence and a strong predisposition, don't drink & you're fine.

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No more than any cultural aspects, like preference for a certain food. But there is nothing to suggest its genetic, but rather cultural. In an alcoholic home where everyone drinks, the individual will likely have a preference, but it will not always become an obsession/addiction. It has been believed that there is a DNA link, and admitting the research is light, but no direct connection has ever been found.

"Don't drink and you'll be fine.." may be accurate but no, it is not a solution. It's the "don't drink" that breaks down, you see addicts do not have a choice. We are not able to have any form of control over the disease until we are exposed to peer-to-peer help, the ONLY treatment that has survived the test of time...even Betty Ford turns you over to AA at the end of your stay.

And it's not just drinking. One thing I know is that the substance is only the symptom, without booze, the alcoholic will turn to whatever he can get. And this is where self medicating comes in. My experience has taught me that every 'user' is not chasing some exotic dream as some films would have us believe, they are self medicating...either to kill the pain of memories in their upbringing (every woman addict I have met has been sexually abused) or an inherent psychological issue, even something as mild as peer group pressures and the big one we ALL share....'not being good enough to fit in."

IF you have an interest there will be AA meetings in your area that are open to guests....just say no if you are asked to speak and don't say "I'm not an alcoholic". Every time someone I know goes they come away with some "aha" moments.

What I am into now is the history of addiction. It is unknown in biblical times, the Bible makes ONE reference to being drunk. Most literary works rarely mention drunkenness, and the first actual treatment I can find started around the turn of the last century only becoming a problem worldwide after WWI.

What changed?