Mueller team asks about Trump's Russian business dealings as he weighed a run for president

Chomsky said:

Well - there's a long way to go from "looking at possible kompromat", to the full-boogie scenario in your post!

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yeah, well if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

There's just too much coming out that is pointing in that direction.

Mach said:

This really seems some glaring oversights in our old and experimental system of government. As you say, it should not happen in the first place. Also if it does, we need a better mechanism to stop it...and wtf pardons. All we needed was a crazy with the party in Congress to break it? Seems absurd. As fear and loathing said our officials should fear us...not the othe way around.

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This in part happens, when the voting citizens don't practice due diligence. To vote for a man for the very powerful office of the President, without examining his business dealings via his tax returns, strikes me as negligence. Willful negligence, actually.

As to the GOP Congress, the theory is that the obstructing Congress will have to reflect the political will of the People. However if the People say, "Hey - we love this crook, and want him to remain in office", Congress will keep him in office and have no reason to remove him.

Trump is in office and remains in office, because of political will.

DiAnna said:

Exactly. That's why I don't think he'll open his mouth. He's not afraid of Mueller; he's afraid of Putin.

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I'm sure he fears everyone, but has his hierarchy!

A guest on CNN's Don Lemon stated that texts to Manafort's daughter, released to the public through hackers, earlier showed Manafort despondent over money & marriage and talking suicide. So I suspect his emotional health is not good.

This is a very sad story, and shows that as men when we turn to crime or other negative behaviours, we affect so many more lives than merely our own.

DiAnna said:

If Manafort flips, he's a dead man and he knows it. Trump's corruption isn't the only thing Manafort knows about Ukraine/Russian secret dealings. He'll take his chances on a trial, and wait for a presidential pardon. Much safer option for him that cooperating with Mueller.

I hope I'm wrong, because I want Mueller to have absolutely every crumb of information available about this intolerable mess the Russians have caused in their cyberwar against American, but I doubt Manafort is willing to take a chance by crossing the Russians.

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What could possibly go wrong? A cup of tea?

Khayembii Communique said:

If Manafort is in that deep then I'm sure Mueller knows it and won't leave him out to dry like that.

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Whaddya mean? Once Mueller is done with Manafort, what does he care?
Is there any universe where Manafort's options are good ones?
I don't theenk so.

Superfly said:

yeah, well if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

There's just too much coming out that is pointing in that direction.

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Well, I've been trying to not get ahead of the facts.

But I don't put anything past this administration, either.

In the beginning, I never believed it would even get this far. But here we are, aren't we?

Chomsky said:

I'm sure he fears everyone, but has his hierarchy!

A guest on CNN's Don Lemon stated that texts to Manafort's daughter, released to the public through hackers, earlier showed Manafort despondent over money & marriage and talking suicide. So I suspect his emotional health is not good.

This is a very sad story, and shows that as men when we turn to crime or other negative behaviours, we affect so many more lives than merely our own.

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At this point, there are no real options for Manafort. If Putin doesn't get to him, he'll get to his family. Manafort has spent his entire life dealing in corruption, lies, and espionage. Even if he shot himself in the head today, his family would still be at risk... and he knows it. I don't think Mueller can offer him anything that overcomes the result of a lifetime of trading his honor for cash, corruption, luxury and the good life. No matter what he does, he knows that he is a dead man and his family is targeted for assassination. That's how the Kremlin crushes those who fail to produce the results that is expected and demanded.

Part of me feels sorry for him; the other part of me is repulsed by his narcissistic corruption and greed.

The worst part is that the President of the United States is now basically in the same damned position!

Chomsky said:

This stuff has been news in various New York local and other media sources, for many years. It's only been getting tied together in the national spotlight relatively recently. Mueller's way ahead of us, I'm sure.

But here's what really saddens me:

It's becoming clear much, if not most, of Trump's inner circle in the White House can NOT obtain security clearance commensurate with their positions & access. Now it seems to me, even our President himself could never attain security clearance!

So in essence, we have a President & inner circle running the country who are not of the character, honesty, and trustworthiness, to be there.

Damn, I'm torn apart by this. And still trying to figure-out how it came to be, and how it is allowed to continue.

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When you have a president that couldn't pass a WH security clearance, it's time for that president to go.

That's not me just being partisan against Trump, that's just pure common sense, and looking out for the nation.

Trump and his associates are in massive debt to foreign interests. That fact alone should have kept Kushner, Ivanka, Flynn, Manafort, and Trump himself, far away from the US presidency.

It's so amusing to watch them complain about corruption, and nag about the system being broken, when they've made absolute mockery of our vetting processes. They make no apologies for using the presidency to enrich themselves, and it's sickening how people who were so worried about 'Crooked Hiliary' turn a complete blind eye to what they do.

Superfly said:

So... looks to me like Trump had been compromised by Russia. Russia forces Trump to run for President. Trump runs and Russia makes sure that he wins.

Russia is now firmly entrenched in the United States government.

**** me.

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I didn't really see it like that.

Trump ran for the US presidency as a scam originally, but it got out of control. He never planned to win, so he never really had a blueprint for how to run the country, hence the dysfunctional administration he's running.

When the Russians saw the potential in how a Trump upset could rock the US, they threw everything and the kitchen sink at our election process. I think they planned to cause chaos, but they never anticipated Trump would actually win, or be the useful idiot he has been.

I think Trump letting Putin run over the US and advocating policy that helps Russia over the US is more a financial incentive than anything else. He see's easy to make in getting wealthy Russian nationals to purchase his real estate, if he's friendly enough to Putin.

My guess is is that at some point during the campaign, Trump and his inner circle were let 'in' on the Russian operations here in the US -- though I doubt there was some elegant conspiracy.

Once the special counsel was appointed, Trump knew everyone from Flynn to his own son were liable for violating FEC guidelines. More importantly, he became concerned that his business with Russian nationals could be scrutinized, and result in Russian mob associates being indicted for money laundering in his hotels, which would be a PR disaster for his business.

:rantoff:

It's going to be fun watching the hardcore Trump fans worlds implode as their hero is exposed for the corrupt fool he is....

The political "we told ya so" of a lifetime! Oh it's only gonna get more entertaining folks. I just hope when all is said and done it does more than get him to resign. If we are ever to root out corruption, I think Trump really needs to see the inside of a cell.:lamoopcorn:

I think it is ok for Mueller to ask the question. I also think it would be cool to ask who he has leaking this information.

DiAnna said:

If Manafort flips, he's a dead man and he knows it. Trump's corruption isn't the only thing Manafort knows about Ukraine/Russian secret dealings. He'll take his chances on a trial, and wait for a presidential pardon. Much safer option for him that cooperating with Mueller.

I hope I'm wrong, because I want Mueller to have absolutely every crumb of information available about this intolerable mess the Russians have caused in their cyberwar against American, but I doubt Manafort is willing to take a chance by crossing the Russians.

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On the other hand flipping may be the only way to save his life...

AliHajiSheik said:

I think it is ok for Mueller to ask the question. I also think it would be cool to ask who he has leaking this information.

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His team has been pretty secretive, so I seriously doubt it's them. What's no secret though is that Mueller really wants to sit down with Trump, and ask him a series of open ended questions, so it doesn't make sense for them to leak interview questions publicly, when they'd rather ambush Trump with them.

More likely the leaks are coming from legal teams of people that have been interviewed, trying to help Trump prepare for his own. That's what's been happening with Manafort and Gates.

MovingPictures said:

His team has been pretty secretive, so I seriously doubt it's them. What's no secret though is that Mueller really wants to sit down with Trump, and ask him a series of open ended questions, so it doesn't make sense for them to leak interview questions publicly, when they'd rather ambush Trump with them.

More likely the leaks are coming from legal teams of people that have been interviewed, trying to help Trump prepare for his own. That's what's been happening with Manafort and Gates.

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How do you know they have been "pretty secretive"? Leaked material facts are one thing, leaked gossip is another.

Chomsky said:

This in part happens, when the voting citizens don't practice due diligence. To vote for a man for the very powerful office of the President, without examining his business dealings via his tax returns, strikes me as negligence. Willful negligence, actually.

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Which is why it should not be an option.

As to the GOP Congress, the theory is that the obstructing Congress will have to reflect the political will of the People. However if the People say, "Hey - we love this crook, and want him to remain in office", Congress will keep him in office and have no reason to remove him.

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Vicinte Fox mentioned that when you get a president in power of one party, you force the congress (house?) to be majority the opposite party. If that's always required, you always have a check, and you can stop trying the "betray" tactic every time, and be forced to cooperate to do anything *no matter who wins*. Not saying that's the solution for us, it just makes you think how archaic, experimental system is and how little we've modified it, as though we haven't had over a hundred years of progress in thought and experience with these things. Many nations that have adopted democracy-like governments after, have learned from our flaws.

Trump is in office and remains in office, because of political will.[/QUOTE]

AliHajiSheik said:

How do you know they have been "pretty secretive"? Leaked material facts are one thing, leaked gossip is another.

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They kept the plea deals of Papo and Flynn under wraps for a long time, and nobody saw the indictments of the Russian nationals coming either. That's a lot to keep secret, especially in an age where grand juries and subpoena information leak rather easily. Nobody really knows what they're investigating until months after the fact, usually. None of them have made any public statements at all, which is completely at odds with how Cox, Walsh, Cox, and Fitzegerald led their probes, where constant public statements were issued.

I'm not saying they haven't leaked at all, but in this instance it makes absolutely no sense for them to do so; in fact, it works against their strategy for a Trump interview. So in my opinion, I'd assume this leak to come from the pro-Trump tent.

SirGareth said:

Hey go for it...tell your banker you want to buy a customized 757 and a scattering of mansions here and there and all on your credit line.

Tell me how it went.

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It's funny that Mueller is desperate for ANYTHING at this point because he and his team have nothing. They may have stuff that is completely unrelated to this investigation, which this beauty pageant is one of them, but as far as having Russia come in to change the election results, there's no evidence to support it. There be any evidence because Trump didn't work with the Russians on ANYTHING during the campaign. He cracked a joke about Russia and Hillary's emails, and the Left's voter base automatically believe that Trump was in league with Russia. The Democrat party probably knows that he didn't do anything, and I'll bet the media does as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller himself and most of his team knows there's nothing. But they have their voters/supporters convinced that there was something (even though they haven't presented any concrete evidence). The sad thing is this investigation won't end until Trump is out of office, and that's even if they find evidence that supports that he DIDN'T do anything. This investigation has nothing to do with justice nor even doing the right thing, but rather trying to overthrow (or even change the election results of) the sitting POTUS because the other side doesn't like him and they didn't get want they want. To go with that, the Left is using this investigation as a political tool to try and win back Congress this year so they can impeach Trump. However, if that fails, they will also use it for the 2020 Presidential Election.

If they actually had any real evidence of Trump and Russia rigging the election against Hillary, it would have been presented a long time ago. These finances for the pageants Trump was involved with isn't going to show or even prove any of it. Again, the Democrats, the media, and Mueller and his team all know this (even they don't, they have much more suspicion that there isn't anything). It's all about regaining all 3 branches of the US government. That's it. I do want to point this out before I go, as much as the media loves to say that Michelle Obama or Oprah (or anyone like them) can easily defeat Trump, the Democrat voters don't want either one. They want Crazy Bernie, or Pocahontas (aka Elizabeth Warren). BTW, the DNC and Hillary (and her campaign) rigged the primaries against Crazy Bernie, so if there should ANY investigation into wrong doing during an election, look into that. I'll admit that Bernie did get screwed because he had more popularity with the voters and a more clear message than what Hillary had. So he should have got the nomination, not her. Of course, the Democrat primaries has been rigged for decades anyway, thanks to the super delegates they established. Anyway, Mueller's team will come up with a new way to get Trump, but the results will turn up dry, just like the other stuff found.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Whaddya mean? Once Mueller is done with Manafort, what does he care?
Is there any universe where Manafort's options are good ones?
I don't theenk so.

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Well, if it's a concern of Manafort's that is preventing him from cooperating, then Mueller will help him so that it gets him to cooperate.

MovingPictures said:

They kept the plea deals of Papo and Flynn under wraps for a long time, and nobody saw the indictments of the Russian nationals coming either. That's a lot to keep secret, especially in an age where grand juries and subpoena information leak rather easily. Nobody really knows what they're investigating until months after the fact, usually. None of them have made any public statements at all, which is completely at odds with how Cox, Walsh, Cox, and Fitzegerald led their probes, where constant public statements were issued.

I'm not saying they haven't leaked at all, but in this instance it makes absolutely no sense for them to do so; in fact, it works against their strategy for a Trump interview. So in my opinion, I'd assume this leak to come from the pro-Trump tent.

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Your opinion noted as an opinion. There is more than just leaks, there are motives for the leaks which never seem to be taken into account.

AliHajiSheik said:

Your opinion noted as an opinion. There is more than just leaks, there are motives for the leaks which never seem to be taken into account.

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Which would be?

yankintx said:

You just know Trump is seething over this. When Mueller indicted the 13 Russians, he guaranteed his job. But nutty Don just may do it, Trump DOES not want his finances being scrutinized by Mueller. The man is VERY thorough.

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No one wants their finances analyzed by the FBI because tax and foreign investment laws will keep you in court for decades. They are a thicket of intertwined often contradictory laws, rules, regulations, exceptions, and "in some cases".

It is instructive how carefully Mueller is to charge around Clinton crimes so as to keep her organization out of the net.

I'm not sure anymore who is Clinton, Inc. Is it the Clintons or the FBI?

MovingPictures said:

When you have a president that couldn't pass a WH security clearance, it's time for that president to go.

That's not me just being partisan against Trump, that's just pure common sense, and looking out for the nation.

Trump and his associates are in massive debt to foreign interests. That fact alone should have kept Kushner, Ivanka, Flynn, Manafort, and Trump himself, far away from the US presidency.

It's so amusing to watch them complain about corruption, and nag about the system being broken, when they've made absolute mockery of our vetting processes. They make no apologies for using the presidency to enrich themselves, and it's sickening how people who were so worried about 'Crooked Hiliary' turn a complete blind eye to what they do.

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Absolutely! But unfortunately there's no Constitutional check, and currently no political check ... yet!

SirGareth said:

Trump wants a tail fin sticker slapped on Air Force One: "My other plane is Custom 757"

View attachment 67229308

View attachment 67229309


Do you really believe that Trump is subjecting himself to slow torture of the mosquitoes, buzz flies, and leeches of the DC swamp to enjoy more of the luxuries of wealth he already has in abundance?

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Just a matter of time before this plane is a target....



Trump's credit is no good in the US, which is why he had to look to Russia. What happens when that ends?

Khayembii Communique said:

Well, if it's a concern of Manafort's that is preventing him from cooperating, then Mueller will help him so that it gets him to cooperate.

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Hate to say it but even the Witness Protection Program can't hide him from a determined Putin.

Mach said:

Which is why it should not be an option.

Vicinte Fox mentioned that when you get a president in power of one party, you force the congress (house?) to be majority the opposite party. If that's always required, you always have a check, and you can stop trying the "betray" tactic every time, and be forced to cooperate to do anything *no matter who wins*. Not saying that's the solution for us, it just makes you think how archaic, experimental system is and how little we've modified it, as though we haven't had over a hundred years of progress in thought and experience with these things. Many nations that have adopted democracy-like governments after, have learned from our flaws.

Trump is in office and remains in office, because of political will.

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I agree. Our system is archaic, even if ingenious. Both its strength & weakness, is in it being Constitution based, with a federated response needed to modify it.

As of late, I do sometimes wish it were parliamentarian in form. It seems to me parliamentarian government forces better inter-party cooperation, and better represents minority parties and therefore minority viewpoints. I feel the dominant two-party system is the bane of our great country.