Mueller files new charges under seal in Manafort-Gates case

JANFU · Feb 21, 2018

Mueller makes new filing under seal in Manafort-Gates case | TheHill

The news comes just days after Mueller’s office states in a court filing last week that the investigative team had discovered evidence of “additional criminal conduct" after the court made its "initial bail determination."

The prosecutors alleged that Manafort had misrepresented his income on financial statements in order to obtain a multi-million dollar mortgage on his property in Fairfax, Va.

"That criminal conduct includes a series of bank frauds and bank fraud conspiracies," the prosecutors wrote in the filing submitted Friday.

"At the next bail hearing, we can proffer to the Court additional evidence related to this and the other bank frauds and conspiracies, which the Court may find relevant to the bail risk posed by Manafort," they continued.

In October, Mueller indicted Manafort and Gates on a set of charges related to their lobbying work overseas. None of the charges related to Manafort’s time serving on the Trump campaign. Both men have pleaded not guilty.

Mueller charges Gates & Mantafort under seal.
Sure this will convince Gates he is best of with a plea deal.

Bank fraud- fine not in excess of 1 Mil, and up to 30 years in jail.

As he may have tried to pledge properties for bail, the Feds investigate, guess they found fraud cases of more than 1 case of bank fraud plus bank fraud conspiracy.

Not looking good Paul.

2nd link
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/21/paul-manafort-rick-gates-new-charges-criminal-case-419685

Hawkeye10 · Feb 21, 2018

JANFU said:
Mueller makes new filing under seal in Manafort-Gates case | TheHill

Mueller charges Gates & Mantafort under seal.
Sure this will convince Gates he is best of with a plea deal.

Bank fraud- fine not in excess of 1 Mil, and up to 30 years in jail.

As he may have tried to pledge properties for bail, the Feds investigate, guess they found fraud cases of more than 1 case of bank fraud plus bank fraud conspiracy.

Not looking good Paul.

2nd link
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/21/paul-manafort-rick-gates-new-charges-criminal-case-419685

Stringing Manafort up by the balls for his various financial crimes moves the ball forward not at all, this is the dictionary definition of "low hanging fruit".

JANFU · Feb 21, 2018

Hawkeye10 said:
Stringing Manafort up by the balls for his various financial crimes moves the ball forward not at all, this is the dictionary definition of "low hanging fruit".

Yeah and while he was not the coffee boy, but only ordered the coffee. No need for a waterboy as Nunes has that job covered.

Grand Mal · Feb 21, 2018

Hawkeye10 said:
Stringing Manafort up by the balls for his various financial crimes moves the ball forward not at all, this is the dictionary definition of "low hanging fruit".

Ever pick fruit? Which ones did you reach for first?

MTAtech · Feb 21, 2018

Hawkeye10 said:
Stringing Manafort up by the balls for his various financial crimes moves the ball forward not at all, this is the dictionary definition of "low hanging fruit".

Hawkeye10 · Feb 21, 2018

Grand Mal said:
Ever pick fruit? Which ones did you reach for first?

We did not need a Mueller for this, and this does not help the cause of either confronting Russia or getting rid of Trump.....He best come up with better....and soon.

haymarket · Feb 21, 2018

Grand Mal said:
Ever pick fruit? Which ones did you reach for first?

Have no fear - Meuller will work way to the top of the tree and it will be picked as clean as an an orchards apple tree after Thanksgiving.

Blkdirt Farmer · Feb 21, 2018

haymarket said:
Have no fear - Meuller will work way to the top of the tree and it will be picked as clean as an an orchards apple tree after Thanksgiving.

:roll:

And what has he found lately, beside nothing? :mrgreen:

Your beyond reason or logic. All you have is hate. :2wave: Tell me, it is fun to live that way?

Please supply all relevant information supporting your opinion or you just lying..... :mrgreen:

JANFU · Feb 21, 2018

Hawkeye10 said:
We did not need a Mueller for this, and this does not help the cause of either confronting Russia or getting rid of Trump.....He best come up with better....and soon.

Yeah, last Aug or so you were complaining, he has had more than enough time to lay charges- well he has done that in spades. Now it is come up with better and soon. What are you going to do if he delays on more charges, take your ball & bat and go home.lol

Like I called it some time ago- Felony February.
Wait till later in the Spring. Some biggies sitting down the track, and some important people are gonna get run over by The Mueller Train.

Then if you think Trump goes off the Twitter deep end, this will probably cause his blood pressure to spike and again lash out.

Khayembii Communique · Feb 21, 2018

Hawkeye10 said:
Stringing Manafort up by the balls for his various financial crimes moves the ball forward not at all, this is the dictionary definition of "low hanging fruit".

It sure does move the ball forward. He's got Manafort and Gates, he just indicted Van Der Zwaan, and there's been talk about going after Skadden as a whole for the Tymoshenko Report. He's going to be picking apart Manafort's past illegal dealings and going after everyone that touched them. The new charges are sealed because it regards information related to an ongoing investigation, which tends to confirm this notion.

We know that Van Der Zwaan was communicating with someone other than Gates about the report - he was indicted for lying to the FBI by claiming that he hadn't spoken with Person A since 2014. This suggests criminality in the production of the report (why else lie to the FBI about it?), and also suggests that by indicting VDZ with lying, that Mueller will likely put the screws on him to flip on Person A.

Person A is listed as a longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates in Ukraine. They communicated in Russian, but also that it's an American. One possibility is Boris Epshteyn, a former senior advisor to Trump in his 2016 campaign.

haymarket · Feb 21, 2018

Blkdirt Farmer said:
:roll:

And what has he found lately, beside nothing? :mrgreen:

Your beyond reason or logic. All you have is hate. :2wave: Tell me, it is fun to live that way?

Please supply all relevant information supporting your opinion or you just lying..... :mrgreen:

Have you been asleep for the past week? Go and review the news from that time period and learn something regarding what Mueller has been doing.

You challenged me earlier to supply information or you would accused me of lying. And I gave you enough verifiable information to choke a damn elephant. And what did you say in response? crickets.

here it is for you.....

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...tougher-russia-than-obama.html#post1068203046

I gave you what you requested and you were gone like a speck of dust in a raging storm. So save your silly challenges for somebody who is not wise to your phony baloney routine.

MTAtech · Feb 21, 2018

Blkdirt Farmer said:
:roll:

And what has he found lately, beside nothing? :mrgreen:

Your beyond reason or logic. All you have is hate. :2wave: Tell me, it is fun to live that way?

Please supply all relevant information supporting your opinion or you just lying..... :mrgreen:

I'm delighted that you have inside information on what Mueller has found, because I am not privy to that information, since it isn't public.

The way prosecutors work, is that they hold on to there investigative information and the testimony of witnesses and suspects. Remember what Manfort told Mueller? Neither do I, since it wasn't released to the public. So, either you know something that none of use do, or you are making up what you think you know.

I agree with Thomas Friedman, "either Trump’s real estate empire has taken large amounts of money from shady oligarchs linked to the Kremlin — so much that they literally own him; or rumors are true that he engaged in sexual misbehavior while he was in Moscow running the Miss Universe contest, which Russian intelligence has on tape and he doesn’t want released; or Trump actually believes Russian President Vladimir Putin when he says he is innocent of intervening in our elections — over the explicit findings of Trump’s own C.I.A., N.S.A. and F.B.I. chiefs."

My bet is on #1, since Trump has an awful track record of losing other people's money that nobody would lend him any. Nobody would stiff shady Russian oligarchs -- if you know what I mean -- they can demand payment in many forms.

GDViking · Feb 21, 2018

Well this will at least get maniforts ankle bracelet put back on.

Now if his bail is completely revoked and he goes behind bars he may turn far more cooperative.

Rexedgar · Feb 21, 2018

GDViking said:
Well this will at least get maniforts ankle bracelet put back on.

Now if his bail is completely revoked and he goes behind bars he may turn far more cooperative.

Manafort needs to practice his ankle grab......may come in handy! :mrgreen:

longview · Feb 21, 2018

I do not know any of the players, but when I see things like,
misrepresented his income on financial statements in order to obtain a multi-million dollar mortgage on his property in Fairfax, Va.,
I have to wonder how hard they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel?
Let's start with what constitutes income misrepresentation?
Did he say he made more or less than he actually made, ether could be a misrepresentation,
but ether could also be not criminal. Some types of jobs do not have steady incomes.
Secondly a multi-million dollar property in Fairfax, va, may be a fairly modest home.
A decade ago, I was driving from Fairfax to Reston, and passed a new home construction area,
medium size 4 bedroom homes, the sign said from $1.3 m. Cough I glad I don't live there.

MTAtech · Feb 21, 2018

longview said:
I do not know any of the players, but when I see things like,
misrepresented his income on financial statements in order to obtain a multi-million dollar mortgage on his property in Fairfax, Va.,
I have to wonder how hard they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel?
Let's start with what constitutes income misrepresentation?
Did he say he made more or less than he actually made, ether could be a misrepresentation,
but ether could also be not criminal. Some types of jobs do not have steady incomes.
Secondly a multi-million dollar property in Fairfax, va, may be a fairly modest home.
A decade ago, I was driving from Fairfax to Reston, and passed a new home construction area,
medium size 4 bedroom homes, the sign said from $1.3 m. Cough I glad I don't live there.

The crimes alleged are numerous ranging from money laundering to being an agent of a foreign government without registering as one and a number of other financial crimes.

longview · Feb 21, 2018

MTAtech said:
The crimes alleged are numerous ranging from money laundering to being an agent of a foreign government without registering as one and a number of other financial crimes.

Then why the charge of misrepresented his income on financial statements?

GDViking · Feb 21, 2018

longview said:
Then why the charge of misrepresented his income on financial statements?

Because he was using his property as collateral for ball.

Mach · Feb 21, 2018

longview said:
I do not know any of the players...I have to wonder how hard they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel?

Going after Trumps' former campaign chairman, when it looks like Trump's campaign delighted in using Russian stolen emails to further their campaign, to which in part a special investigator was ordered to investigate....you believe that's scraping the bottom of a barrel? Are you awake?

They got a notorious organized crime boss on Tax Evasion...scraping the bottom of the barrel?

You guys need to grow up.

JANFU · Feb 21, 2018

Khayembii Communique said:
It sure does move the ball forward. He's got Manafort and Gates, he just indicted Van Der Zwaan, and there's been talk about going after Skadden as a whole for the Tymoshenko Report. He's going to be picking apart Manafort's past illegal dealings and going after everyone that touched them. The new charges are sealed because it regards information related to an ongoing investigation, which tends to confirm this notion.

We know that Van Der Zwaan was communicating with someone other than Gates about the report - he was indicted for lying to the FBI by claiming that he hadn't spoken with Person A since 2014. This suggests criminality in the production of the report (why else lie to the FBI about it?), and also suggests that by indicting VDZ with lying, that Mueller will likely put the screws on him to flip on Person A.

Person A is listed as a longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates in Ukraine. They communicated in Russian, but also that it's an American. One possibility is Boris Epshteyn, a former senior advisor to Trump in his 2016 campaign.

Gotta say you are right on top of who is who in this. Had to look that Boris Epshteyn up.
As to the Law firm, they would have been subpoenaed for documents. If any others (law firm)deleted emails, phone records, or interfered, directed others to not comply, well I am sure there is a decade or more of charges there.

Glen Contrarian · Feb 21, 2018

Hawkeye10 said:
Stringing Manafort up by the balls for his various financial crimes moves the ball forward not at all, this is the dictionary definition of "low hanging fruit".

Yeah, and we all know that Trump's longest-serving campaign manager couldn't possibly have any dirt on Trump, 'cause Trump is SO squeaky-clean....

longview · Feb 21, 2018

Mach said:
Going after Trumps' former campaign chairman, when it looks like Trump's campaign delighted in using Russian stolen emails to further their campaign, to which in part a special investigator was ordered to investigate....you believe that's scraping the bottom of a barrel? Are you awake?

They got a notorious organized crime boss on Tax Evasion...scraping the bottom of the barrel?

You guys need to grow up.

If it quacks like a duck! if they are looking at charges which almost any jury could consider subjective,
yea, they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel.
Who the person is should have no bearing on the findings, (remember that statue of Justice with a blindfold)
People should not be excluded from prosecution selectivity, but neither should they be included.

Mach · Feb 21, 2018

longview said:
If it quacks like a duck! if they are looking at charges which almost any jury could consider subjective,
yea, they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

Please list out the formal charges and why they are remarkably different from similar charges. You can't and won't, because you're talking out of your ass.
I'd say go fish, it's more your speed, but I'm barely able to restrain my excitement for spring time bass fishing this year, I plan to do some serious fishing.

Who the person is should have no bearing on the findings, (remember that statue of Justice with a blindfold)
People should not be excluded from prosecution selectivity, but neither should they be included.

Justice will be the courts longview, not the investigator. They know they have big time criminals, and to get them, they have to roll up the fish, get them to turn on the higher-ups. It's how the professionals do it when the stakes are high. So suggesting they shouldn't squeeze Manafort is just wishful thinking. Of course they should.

The Mark · Feb 21, 2018

Hawkeye10 said:
Stringing Manafort up by the balls for his various financial crimes moves the ball forward not at all, this is the dictionary definition of "low hanging fruit".

Hey, I'm happy enough that one of the corrupt assholes in this country is getting a bit of deserved justice, whatever the cause.

Wish it happened more often, and with less political waves around it.

longview · Feb 21, 2018

Mach said:
Please list out the formal charges and why they are remarkably different from similar charges. You can't and won't, because you're talking out of your ass.
I'd say go fish, it's more your speed, but I'm barely able to restrain my excitement for spring time bass fishing this year, I plan to do some serious fishing.

Justice will be the courts longview, not the investigator. They know they have big time criminals, and to get them, they have to roll up the fish, get them to turn on the higher-ups. It's how the professionals do it when the stakes are high. So suggesting they shouldn't squeeze Manafort is just wishful thinking. Of course they should.

Here is what the article said,

The prosecutors alleged that Manafort had misrepresented his income on
financial statements in order to obtain a multi-million dollar mortgage on his property in Fairfax, Va.

The statement of misrepresenting his income is very subjective, as incomes do change.
Also the investigator is not the prosecutor, and weather they act like it or not prosecutors are officers of the court,
and are required to act accordingly.

Mueller files new charges under seal in Manafort-Gates case

JANFU

Land by the Gulf Stream

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man

JANFU

Land by the Gulf Stream

Grand Mal

Russian warship, go f*** yourself!

MTAtech

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man

haymarket

Blkdirt Farmer

JANFU

Land by the Gulf Stream

Khayembii Communique

haymarket

MTAtech

GDViking

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!

longview

MTAtech

longview

GDViking

Mach

JANFU

Land by the Gulf Stream

Glen Contrarian

longview

Mach

The Mark

Sporadic insanity normal.

longview