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Florida high school shooting: Live updates[W:149]*****

Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

jonny5 said:
The solutions have not changed since the last mass shooting.

1. If you want to regulate arms, submit an amendment and get 3/4 of states consent
2. Since that wont happen, and you wont move on from the gun distraction, we cant discuss real solutions

So, give it a few weeks for people to get back to obsession over Kylie Jenners pregnancy, royal weddings, or trumps tweets. People dont actually care about this issue other than to use it as a wedge to gain power.
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Thoughts and prayers then. Eh?
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

dobieg said:
Never.


There were 1.2 million violent crimes in our country last year. You and your merry band of do-gooders is not taking away our choice to defend ourselves.
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Exactly no person in the country wants to disarm you. A reasonable person might be capable of having a conversation about reasonable gun control however.
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

Slyfox696 said:
Exactly. EVERYTHING starts with the parents. If the parents act like bullies, so will their children. If the parents don't respect education, neither will their children.
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That's true. But by all accounts this shooter was raised in a good home by very loving and decent parents. The kids of bad parents can be good, and the kids of good parents can be bad.

What a terrible tragedy this is.
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

HowardBThiname said:
I don't think the rest of the world places such a massive importance on sports or those who play them. Or, at least they place equal importance on academics and the arts.

That's pretty much an American thing.

Leave physical fitness in the schools -- but take competitive sports out. The social class structure would collapse quickly.
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Take in a European football match and maybe check salaries of even marginal players. There are academies devoted to sports as soon as they can walk/dribble.
Sports is really a whole other topic, imo.
 
Aristaeus said:
The problem isn't so much the right to bear arms, anyone in Croatia can carry a gun on them and they don't have this problem. The bigger issue is the gun culture in the US which fetishises guns. America has the right to bear arms, but is too immature to handle it.
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I don't agree with that at all. The US has always included a responsible gun-carrying population. Our problem is with violence, not guns. Whether or not the source is immature, we need to explore it if we want mass shootings to end.
 
Switzerland has mandatory gun laws, every home must own at least one firearm (this dates back to WW2), and they almost never have these types of shootings
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
I don't agree with that at all. The US has always included a responsible gun-carrying population. Our problem is with violence, not guns. Whether or not the source is immature, we need to explore it if we want mass shootings to end.
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Crazy people with access to guns...what could possibly go wrong?

This guy had a small arsenal, and he is obviously crazy enough to use it in this horrible fashion. Problem is he is not alone. Not anymore. Nowadays there seems to be one a month.
 
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Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

MateoMtnClimber said:
Exactly no person in the country wants to disarm you. A reasonable person might be capable of having a conversation about reasonable gun control however.
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Apparently you've never visited DemocraticUnderground.


I'm more than willing to have a reasonable conversation about gun control. However it's been shown liberals are anything but reasonable when it comes to the 2nd amendment. Many on my side would be willing to consent to universal background checks and limitations on certain type of weapons and/or accessories but we know if we give your side any type of concession you won't stop nor or you willing to give us any assurances your assault on our rights will end.
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

Desert Storm said:
No you didnt challenge it. You made a completely irrelevant comment
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No, I said that banning certain weapons doesn't deter criminals any more than arming every person in the US deters criminals. Do you get it now?
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

MateoMtnClimber said:
No, I said that banning certain weapons doesn't deter criminals any more than arming every person in the US deters criminals. Do you get it now?
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I disagree. Just because criminals break the law doesnt mean they are fearless.
A well armed home acts as a deterrent for many criminals. Maybe not all of them, but for a large number.

Add in the fact that in US a home-owner can legally shoot an intruder for just stepping on their property, and I think gun ownership acts a deterrent most of the time
 
calamity said:
Crazy people with access to guns...what could possibly go wrong?

This guy had a small arsenal, and he is obviously crazy enough to use it in this horrible fashion. Problem is he is not alone. Not anymore. Nowadays there seems to be one a month.
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That's why I'm wondering why. There's something in me that prevents me from causing massive damage to lots of undiscerning people. I think we need to explore the people who lack that impulse control.
 
Desert Storm said:
Switzerland has mandatory gun laws, every home must own at least one firearm (this dates back to WW2), and they almost never have these types of shootings
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That statement is sort of true. The Swiss have a mandatory military service requirement for males up to a certain age. Even after discharge they are kept in a "militia" status (aka the reserves as we know it) and during that time they are issued a weapon that they have to maintain until they are over the age of 30 (enlisted) or 34 (officers). After that reserve time, it is up to them whether or not they want to keep their firearms. Most do keep their weapons though.

What's different in Switzerland though, compared to the US, is that the swiss have a MANDATORY military service requirement for males AND they provide that training for both the safety and use of the weapon. Hence, more responsible gun owners.
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

dobieg said:
Apparently you've never visited DemocraticUnderground.


I'm more than willing to have a reasonable conversation about gun control. However it's been shown liberals are anything but reasonable when it comes to the 2nd amendment. Many on my side would be willing to consent to universal background checks and limitations on certain type of weapons and/or accessories but we know if we give your side any type of concession you won't stop nor or you willing to give us any assurances your assault on our rights will end.
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Your defensiveness could fill volumes. As a liberal gun owner in the Rocky Mountains, let me assure you that no one wants your guns. (I don't know what DemocraticUnderground is and have no intention of looking for it.) The rest of our conversation is hindered because you're clenching your cheeks about your steel when you should be engaging with me about why young men decide to kill as many people as they can before they're stopped.
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

Desert Storm said:
I disagree. Just because criminals break the law doesnt mean they are fearless.
A well armed home acts as a deterrent for many criminals. Maybe not all of them, but for a large number.

Add in the fact that in US a home-owner can legally shoot an intruder for just stepping on their property, and I think gun ownership acts a deterrent most of the time
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Let me try one more time. Gun ownership by private citizens is as much a deterrent to the commitment of crimes as gun bans by government are. You never hold up a scoundrel, but you think he doesn't target your home because he thinks you might be armed. Pfffff.
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

MateoMtnClimber said:
I see. Public education exists because a society thrives when its citizens are trained. I would go so far as to say that nothing more valuable and costless exists besides public schools and libraries. The problem you framed within a school scenario also happens in movie theaters, churches, clinics, and airports. As much as I support public education reform, your argument is misplaced and unpersuasive
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Education and "public education" are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say public education is "cost-less" Actually, it's the single largest expenditure in most states. My biggest problem is the caste systems that naturally form in large schools. This, in my opinion, leads to the bullying and subsequent need for retaliation these shooters seem to feel. And, virtually ALL of it is based around worship of athletes. It creates that caste system that no child child can escape.

Schools have special comfort buses to haul the all-star athletes, but the debate team rides in the old suburban. Special "spirit" assemblies and "spirit week" revolve around sports. Homecoming is the big dance night for the school in conjunction with a home football game. Cheerleaders (which really think out to be banned) are the prettiest girls chosen to cheer for the most athletic guys. There's something drastically wrong with that image in a public school that is supposed to be educating the children.

You can take the smartest kids in the school, but they're not the "popular" kids. The importance of education is glossed over in pursuit of sports. It's absolutely nuts and the kids who don't measure up are left to congregate in the shadows and are subjected to bullying.

That's just the way our public school system is -- and, in my opinion, it's wrong. I don't mind leaving some physical education in the schools, but I think competitive sports should be discontinued.
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

MateoMtnClimber said:
No, I said that banning certain weapons doesn't deter criminals any more than arming every person in the US deters criminals. Do you get it now?
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Do cops have guns?
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

Desert Storm said:
Ever heard of the deterrent factor??
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Criminal 1: Hey lets shoot up John Doe's house and rob the place.
Criminal 2: But we don't have a gun.
Criminal 1: Yeah you're right. Maybe not such a good idea.
Criminal 2: Lets cook up some meth instead
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

Infinite Chaos said:
Sad thing is we know this won't be the last such event. Only a matter of time before we're watching and reading about the next American based mass shooting.
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As I previously mentioned on this thread, preventative 'medicine' is the only thing to prevent further attacks.
More screening. More counselling of disgruntled students. More counselling of teachers and students to accept other ideas and ways of like, etc. - diversity training...
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

Fruityfact said:
Criminal 1: Hey lets shoot up John Doe's house and rob the place.
Criminal 2: But we don't have a gun.
Criminal 1: Yeah you're right. Maybe not such a good idea.
Criminal 2: Lets cook up some meth instead
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Criminal 1: Haha....the government just made it law every American turn in their guns
Criminal 2: Yeah, like we're gonna turn in ours :roll:
Criminal 1: Yeah....LOL. Only stupid, law-abiding citizens will turn in theirs
Criminal 2: Yup...I'm holding on to mine
 
Desert Storm said:
Switzerland has mandatory gun laws, every home must own at least one firearm (this dates back to WW2), and they almost never have these types of shootings
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No, but they do have one of the highest, if not the highest, gun fatality levels in Europe. But Switzerland is a very different country to the US.
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

HowardBThiname said:
Education and "public education" are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say public education is "cost-less" Actually, it's the single largest expenditure in most states. My biggest problem is the caste systems that naturally form in large schools. This, in my opinion, leads to the bullying and subsequent need for retaliation these shooters seem to feel. And, virtually ALL of it is based around worship of athletes. It creates that caste system that no child child can escape.

Schools have special comfort buses to haul the all-star athletes, but the debate team rides in the old suburban. Special "spirit" assemblies and "spirit week" revolve around sports. Homecoming is the big dance night for the school in conjunction with a home football game. Cheerleaders (which really think out to be banned) are the prettiest girls chosen to cheer for the most athletic guys. There's something drastically wrong with that image in a public school that is supposed to be educating the children.

You can take the smartest kids in the school, but they're not the "popular" kids. The importance of education is glossed over in pursuit of sports. It's absolutely nuts and the kids who don't measure up are left to congregate in the shadows and are subjected to bullying.

That's just the way our public school system is -- and, in my opinion, it's wrong. I don't mind leaving some physical education in the schools, but I think competitive sports should be discontinued.
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You sound bitter to me. First, I meant "costless" from the perspective of the consumer. Next, all of a person's life is subjected to the counterproductive esteem we (as a society) assign to professions that are generally unattainable, e.g., sports heroes, music stars, cheerleaders, etc. Public education is a foundation of a functioning democracy. We can do it better than we do, but your willingness to discard the system altogether is frightening.
 
Re: Florida high school shooting: Live updates

Slyfox696 said:
Exactly. EVERYTHING starts with the parents. If the parents act like bullies, so will their children. If the parents don't respect education, neither will their children.
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If only more parents understood this:

 
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