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California Democrats want some businesses to fork over half tax-cut savings to state

NonoBadDog

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Calling the Trump administration’s tax reform plan a “middle-class tax increase,” two California lawmakers introduced a bill that would force large companies to fork over half of their expected savings to the state.
Assemblymen Kevin McCarty and Phil Ting, both Democrats, introduced Assembly Constitutional Amendment 22, which calls for a 10 percent surcharge on companies with a net earnings over $1 million. The plan could potentially raise billions for the state's social services programs.
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The Associated Press contributed to this report.
California Democrats want some businesses to fork over half tax-cut savings to state | Fox News

From another link:
California Democrats want businesses to give half their tax-cut savings to state

SACRAMENTO — California lawmakers are targeting the expected windfall that companies in the state would see under the federal tax overhaul with a bill that would require businesses to turn over half to the state.

A proposed Assembly Constitutional Amendment by Assemblymen Kevin McCarty, D-Sacramento, and Phil Ting, D-San Francisco, would create a tax surcharge on California companies making more than $1 million so that half of their federal tax cut would instead go to programs that benefit low-income and middle-class families.

“Trump’s tax reform plan was nothing more than a middle-class tax increase,” Ting said in a statement. “It is unconscionable to force working families to pay the price for tax breaks and loopholes benefiting corporations and wealthy individuals. This bill will help blunt the impact of the federal tax plan on everyday Californians by protecting funding for education, affordable health care, and other core priorities.”
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California Democrats want businesses to give half their tax-cut savings to state - SFGate

This will be good for growth in the state of California. Okay, I'm being sarcastic.

This is a really bad idea for California but not surprising. I wonder how many businesses would leave after a bill like this. The saving grace is that it probably won't pass.
 
Never mind that it was, in fact, NOT a "middle class tax increase" . . .
 
Nothing surprises me about California anymore.
 
NonoBadDog said:
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
California Democrats want some businesses to fork over half tax-cut savings to state | Fox News

From another link:
California Democrats want businesses to give half their tax-cut savings to state


California Democrats want businesses to give half their tax-cut savings to state - SFGate

This will be good for growth in the state of California. Okay, I'm being sarcastic.

This is a really bad idea for California but not surprising. I wonder how many businesses would leave after a bill like this. The saving grace is that it probably won't pass.
Click to expand...



"I wonder how many businesses would leave after a bill like this."

I wonder how many businesses will trickle down much at all of their massive tax cuts like those who voted for Trump's tax plan promised. Like similar tax plans in the past, next to none. I asked supporters of this tax plan many times to show any proof that trickle down works. No one responded with any supporting data. The rich and the corps hold on to what they are give and just get richer.
 
bluesmoke said:
"I wonder how many businesses would leave after a bill like this."

I wonder how many businesses will trickle down much at all of their massive tax cuts like those who voted for Trump's tax plan promised. Like similar tax plans in the past, next to none. I asked supporters of this tax plan many times to show any proof that trickle down works. No one responded with any supporting data. The rich and the corps hold on to what they are give and just get richer.
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You mean, aside from the dozens, if not hundreds, of companies which have announced bonuses, pay raises, and expansions as a result of the tax bill, affecting millions of workers?

(Not that instant pay raises is even how supply-side economics is said to boost the middle class.)

Anyway . . .
 
Perhaps I missed some detail of the new tax law, but what money did the State of California lose?
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Perhaps I missed some detail of the new tax law, but what money did the State of California lose?
Click to expand...

They will lose federal money. Do you really think lowering taxes is going to increase federal revenue? Where do you think the federal government will make up it's revenue losses? Now, you may not agree with states being given federal money like they have been, but don't play dumb that you don't understand what money California would lose.
 
Harshaw said:
Never mind that it was, in fact, NOT a "middle class tax increase" . . .
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When 83% of the tax-cuts go to the top 1%, it's not a middle class tax-cut -- which then raises taxes on 53% of Americans years later.
tpc1.png


There also is no evidence in history when lowering taxes on corporations results in corporations increasing investment with that money. If Apple wanted to invest more, it has plenty of money to do so without needing a tax-cut.

The State of California has every right to tax corporations doing business within its borders.
 
Praxas said:
They will lose federal money. Do you really think lowering taxes is going to increase federal revenue? Where do you think the federal government will make up it's revenue losses? Now, you may not agree with states being given federal money like they have been, but don't play dumb that you don't understand what money California would lose.
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How much will they lose and from what program?
 
bluesmoke said:
"I wonder how many businesses would leave after a bill like this."

I wonder how many businesses will trickle down much at all of their massive tax cuts like those who voted for Trump's tax plan promised. Like similar tax plans in the past, next to none. I asked supporters of this tax plan many times to show any proof that trickle down works. No one responded with any supporting data. The rich and the corps hold on to what they are give and just get richer.
Click to expand...

You can wonder but let me help.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...boosted-pay-since-tax-bill-passed/1023848001/
https://nypost.com/2017/12/23/tax-cuts-are-already-benefiting-american-workers/
Boom: 164 companies give bonuses, lower fees to millions, citing Trump tax cuts
Comcast, ATT, Boeing Announce Bonuses After Tax Bill Passes | Time
https://www.axios.com/american-sout...988-aaba451c-245d-4bf2-b05c-fafbfcd3d93c.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-20/at-t-s-tax-cut-bonus-isn-t-just-a-gimmick

Jobs:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...20000-jobs-contribute-350b-to-us-economy.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/j-p-morgan-to-spend-20-billion-after-tax-cuts-on-jobs-branches.html
https://www.investors.com/news/wal-...ge-to-11-as-tax-cuts-trickle-down-to-workers/

Then there are the direct advantages, not trickle down, that are beneficial to the average person in the way of returns:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxv...-most-benefits-going-those-making-300000-plus
https://www.consumerreports.org/taxes/gop-tax-plan-would-save-americans-average-1600/

401ks:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...x-cut-plan-dow-climbs-to-record-idUSKBN1D21HF
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rd-as-investors-bet-on-tax-cuts-idUSKBN1DY1EP
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/363097-dow-soars-after-senate-passes-tax-reform
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-markets-20171218-story.html
http://www.benefitspro.com/2017/12/28/aflac-doubles-401k-match-after-tax-overhaul

Trying to simplify the positives from the tax cut to "trickle down" is short sighted.
 
MTAtech said:
When 83% of the tax-cuts go to the top 1%, it's not a middle class tax-cut -- which then raises taxes on 53% of Americans years later.
tpc1.png


There also is no evidence in history when lowering taxes on corporations results in corporations increasing investment with that money. If Apple wanted to invest more, it has plenty of money to do so without needing a tax-cut.

The State of California has every right to tax corporations doing business within its borders.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry; did anything in this gobbledygook establish that I'm wrong, and that it actually WAS a middle-class tax increase?

No? OK.
 
NonoBadDog said:
You can wonder but let me help.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...boosted-pay-since-tax-bill-passed/1023848001/
https://nypost.com/2017/12/23/tax-cuts-are-already-benefiting-american-workers/
Boom: 164 companies give bonuses, lower fees to millions, citing Trump tax cuts
Comcast, ATT, Boeing Announce Bonuses After Tax Bill Passes | Time
https://www.axios.com/american-sout...988-aaba451c-245d-4bf2-b05c-fafbfcd3d93c.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-20/at-t-s-tax-cut-bonus-isn-t-just-a-gimmick

Jobs:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...20000-jobs-contribute-350b-to-us-economy.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/j-p-morgan-to-spend-20-billion-after-tax-cuts-on-jobs-branches.html
https://www.investors.com/news/wal-...ge-to-11-as-tax-cuts-trickle-down-to-workers/

Then there are the direct advantages, not trickle down, that are beneficial to the average person in the way of returns:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxv...-most-benefits-going-those-making-300000-plus
https://www.consumerreports.org/taxes/gop-tax-plan-would-save-americans-average-1600/

401ks:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...x-cut-plan-dow-climbs-to-record-idUSKBN1D21HF
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rd-as-investors-bet-on-tax-cuts-idUSKBN1DY1EP
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/363097-dow-soars-after-senate-passes-tax-reform
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-markets-20171218-story.html
http://www.benefitspro.com/2017/12/28/aflac-doubles-401k-match-after-tax-overhaul

Trying to simplify the positives from the tax cut to "trickle down" is short sighted.
Click to expand...

It’s nonsense, of course. Think of the motivation: lots of companies are raising wages at least a bit in the face of tight labor markets; pretending that it’s because of the tax cut is a cheap way to curry favor with an administration that has no hesitation about using regulatory and antitrust decisions to reward friends and punish enemies. It’s basically Carrier all over: make a Trump-friendly splash by declaring that he persuaded you to save jobs, then lay off lots of workers after the cameras have moved on.

But there’s a larger point here: even if you believe economic analyses that suggest corporate tax cuts are good for wages, it shouldn’t happen right away. Any trickle-down should come about because the tax cuts lead to higher investment, which leads over time to a larger capital stock – and it’s the increase in the capital stock, which may take many years, that leads to the wage rise. It is certainly not going to happen the first month of a tax-cut, before corporations even know the profits they will be expected to pay taxes on.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Perhaps I missed some detail of the new tax law, but what money did the State of California lose?
Click to expand...

They are worried about people that pay more than 10k in property taxes. They are afraid that those people will move so the state of California, in all their wisdom, think they should tax the companies they work for not thinking that those companies might just do the same, move to a state where they aren't raped for more taxes.
 
MTAtech said:
It’s nonsense, of course. Think of the motivation: lots of companies are raising wages at least a bit in the face of tight labor markets; pretending that it’s because of the tax cut is a cheap way to curry favor with an administration that has no hesitation about using regulatory and antitrust decisions to reward friends and punish enemies. It’s basically Carrier all over: make a Trump-friendly splash by declaring that he persuaded you to save jobs, then lay off lots of workers after the cameras have moved on.

But there’s a larger point here: even if you believe economic analyses that suggest corporate tax cuts are good for wages, it shouldn’t happen right away. Any trickle-down should come about because the tax cuts lead to higher investment, which leads over time to a larger capital stock – and it’s the increase in the capital stock, which may take many years, that leads to the wage rise. It is certainly not going to happen the first month of a tax-cut, before corporations even know the profits they will be expected to pay taxes on.
Click to expand...

I can only present the facts. I can't force you to honestly absorb them. That's on you.
 
NonoBadDog said:
They are worried about people that pay more than 10k in property taxes. They are afraid that those people will move so the state of California, in all their wisdom, think they should tax the companies they work for not thinking that those companies might just do the same, move to a state where they aren't raped for more taxes.
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Ok, but what relief is being proposed by these representatives to transfer any funds to those who do pay more than $10k in property taxes?
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Ok, but what relief is being proposed by these representatives to transfer any funds to those who do pay more than $10k in property taxes?
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California is worried about losing rich residents who can't write off what they pay over 10k in their property taxes on the federal return. It's ironic how they complain about the top 1% and then try to figure out how to keep them from taking their money elsewhere.

Democrats worry GOP tax law will cause CA exodus | The Sacramento Bee

"The Republican-backed federal tax bill flipped the tables on a never-ending question for California politicians: Will high taxes lead the state’s wealthiest residents to flee the Golden State for the comparable tax havens of Florida, Nevada and Texas?
Republicans reliably raise that alarm when Democrats advocate for tax increases, like the 2012 and 2016 ballot initiatives that levied a new income tax on very high-earning residents."
 
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Harshaw said:
I'm sorry; did anything in this gobbledygook establish that I'm wrong, and that it actually WAS a middle-class tax increase?

No? OK.
Click to expand...

fc7f06f8ebd68d5afcb29db2e26a406b.jpg


The majority of the top 4 quintiles will ALL see a tax increase. It's only the tip of the top that still sees a tax cut.
 
NonoBadDog said:
I can only present the facts. I can't force you to honestly absorb them. That's on you.
Click to expand...

That's ironic.

Businesses have huge amounts of cash, look no farther than the DJIA decoupled from the economy:

c033111e97e74ae3a52e8add67ffe3c1.jpg


Companies are spending huge amounts of money on stock buybacks as well as mergers and acquisitions. Those are great for stock owners, but they don't do **** for the employees. Companies have huge sums of cash that are already going toward enterprises that do NOT help long term economic growth.

Rather than spending excess on stock buybacks and acquisitions, they could invest in new factories, or more employees. It's truly delusional to claim that they're going to give employees a raise with the extra cash.
 
California and its insistent race to the bottom....LOL
 
Harshaw said:
You mean, aside from the dozens, if not hundreds, of companies which have announced bonuses, pay raises, and expansions as a result of the tax bill, affecting millions of workers?

(Not that instant pay raises is even how supply-side economics is said to boost the middle class.)

Anyway . . .
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It’s still too early to tell. It took nearly eight years for Bush2’s tax giveaway plans to the rich and corps to turn into the Great Recession. Rather than just shoot-off your opinion, try to back-up your words and show what similar trickle-down plans have worked in the past. Like the Bush2 plans. Go mine some data and try. As far as a couple of early items, remember Trump touting Carrier? Carrier ended up firing employees, didn’t they? And Apple. They announced just recently they would add 20K US jobs over the next five years. That’s a 23.8% increase in their US workforce. However, over the past five years they increase their workforce by 27.2%. In other words, they promised to decrease their rate of increase in US workforce. Stay on watch.
 
bluesmoke said:
It’s still too early to tell. It took nearly eight years for Bush2’s tax giveaway plans to the rich and corps to turn into the Great Recession. Rather than just shoot-off your opinion, try to back-up your words and show what similar trickle-down plans have worked in the past. Like the Bush2 plans. Go mine some data and try. As far as a couple of early items, remember Trump touting Carrier? Carrier ended up firing employees, didn’t they? And Apple. They announced just recently they would add 20K US jobs over the next five years. That’s a 23.8% increase in their US workforce. However, over the past five years they increase their workforce by 27.2%. In other words, they promised to decrease their rate of increase in US workforce. Stay on watch.
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I'd say the boom of the '90s was a brilliant "trickle-down" economy.
 
NonoBadDog said:
You can wonder but let me help.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...boosted-pay-since-tax-bill-passed/1023848001/
https://nypost.com/2017/12/23/tax-cuts-are-already-benefiting-american-workers/
Boom: 164 companies give bonuses, lower fees to millions, citing Trump tax cuts
Comcast, ATT, Boeing Announce Bonuses After Tax Bill Passes | Time
https://www.axios.com/american-sout...988-aaba451c-245d-4bf2-b05c-fafbfcd3d93c.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-20/at-t-s-tax-cut-bonus-isn-t-just-a-gimmick

Jobs:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...20000-jobs-contribute-350b-to-us-economy.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/j-p-morgan-to-spend-20-billion-after-tax-cuts-on-jobs-branches.html
https://www.investors.com/news/wal-...ge-to-11-as-tax-cuts-trickle-down-to-workers/

Then there are the direct advantages, not trickle down, that are beneficial to the average person in the way of returns:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxv...-most-benefits-going-those-making-300000-plus
https://www.consumerreports.org/taxes/gop-tax-plan-would-save-americans-average-1600/

401ks:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...x-cut-plan-dow-climbs-to-record-idUSKBN1D21HF
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rd-as-investors-bet-on-tax-cuts-idUSKBN1DY1EP
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/363097-dow-soars-after-senate-passes-tax-reform
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-markets-20171218-story.html
http://www.benefitspro.com/2017/12/28/aflac-doubles-401k-match-after-tax-overhaul

Trying to simplify the positives from the tax cut to "trickle down" is short sighted.
Click to expand...



I am not determining the success of Trump on his mere one year in office. That year is mostly a result of the continuing economic improvement, including 401k’s, established under Obama and all the other forces that be. Trump enacted next to nothing in that time that had any effect. Trump is riding on Obama’s coat tails. I am saying that the Trump tax plan has no successful precedent and, in fact, in terms of success for the middle-class and those with less, exemplifies failure. By the time it’s determined Trump’s plan is a failure, you’ll be looking to lay blame elsewhere.

“Trying to simplify the positives from the tax cut to "trickle down" is short sighted.”

That’s the Republican’s line, not mine nor the Dems. Whether short-term or long-term, it doesn't work for those but the rich and corps.
 
Absentglare said:
fc7f06f8ebd68d5afcb29db2e26a406b.jpg


The majority of the top 4 quintiles will ALL see a tax increase. It's only the tip of the top that still sees a tax cut.
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I am particularly excited about which of our congressmen and women will allow these tax cuts to expire in 2027. Until then, I have time to get to the top 1%.
 
bluesmoke said:
I am not determining the success of Trump on his mere one year in office. That year is mostly a result of the continuing economic improvement, including 401k’s, established under Obama and all the other forces that be. Trump enacted next to nothing in that time that had any effect. Trump is riding on Obama’s coat tails. I am saying that the Trump tax plan has no successful precedent and, in fact, in terms of success for the middle-class and those with less, exemplifies failure. By the time it’s determined Trump’s plan is a failure, you’ll be looking to lay blame elsewhere.

“Trying to simplify the positives from the tax cut to "trickle down" is short sighted.”

That’s the Republican’s line, not mine nor the Dems. Whether short-term or long-term, it doesn't work for those but the rich and corps.
Click to expand...

I am not rich and yet I have benefited enormously by the upsurge caused by the tax cuts. You are just another person that refuses to recognize the indicators of a boom in the economy as a direct result of the tax cut. I get it. It hurts the Democrats if Trump did something right. Here is where a lot of the people on the other side of me makes a prediction that the sky is falling at which I would post a long list about predictions, made in the last 18 months, by the majority of liberals where their predictions were wrong. Just trying to move past the usual direction these conversations go by skipping ahead a little.
 
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