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Federal government shuts down after Senate talks fail

TheRepublican said:
Why should we automatically give them amnesty? and what happens when we are having to subsidize the kids and the family. Let me ask this question because the democrats don’t have any common sense that they are going to support the people who come here! I don’t know understand how the pathetic left wave the law for these people


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You think it's immigrants that are on welfare? You really need to look up those statistics.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
What about all the taxes that immigrants put into the system? If they paid sales and food and all the local taxes for 30 years doesn't that make them partially American? Does all that money they put into the system just disappear? Does the government give them a tax rebate check on the way during deportation out as a thank for for all those years of taxes paid? What if the kid doesnt even speak spanish? Every time they go to the store they pay tax btw. There is more than just income tax and im sure they jump up and volenteer for income tax traditional employment way if they trusted immigration to do the right thing.
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nope...it doesnt make them anything but the illegals they are

what they paid helped to pay for the stuff they used...schools, roads, hospitals, etc

they just dont get a pass because it "feels" good though

there are hundreds of thousands of people, maybe even in the millions, waiting to legally emigrate to this great country of ours

my wife has five relatives from Germany on that list....all waiting at least 5 years

they have followed the rules, did the paperwork, and we are sponsoring them....

why should others get in front of the line for cheating? even if they had NOTHING to do with their coming, they have had time to "fix" the issue

i dont feel sorry for any of them....i really dont....my wife and her parents waited, and her relatives are STILL waiting....some people understand that doing things the right way is the ONLY way
 
Cephus said:
But the popular vote doesn't mean a damn thing. Who cares if she won the popular vote? That isn't what qualifies someone to be President. So bringing it up at all *IS* an emotional response to a reality that you just don't like. Now try dealing with the reality that actually exists instead of the reality you wish existed.
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I already explained it to you. I also didn't bring it up if you recall. I can tell this is a worthless pursuit; and this is also the wrong thread for it.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
What about all the taxes that immigrants put into the system? If they paid sales and food and all the local taxes for 30 years doesn't that make them partially American? Does all that money they put into the system just disappear? Does the government give them a tax rebate check on the way during deportation out as a thank for for all those years of taxes paid? What if the kid doesnt even speak spanish? Every time they go to the store they pay tax btw. There is more than just income tax and im sure they jump up and volenteer for income tax traditional employment way if they trusted immigration to do the right thing.
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I will be fine with that as soon as I get all my federal income tax I paid in for the past 40 years plus interest plus interest. They belong in prison for tax evasion. They belong in prison for violating our immigration laws. You want to give them a refund on the taxes they actually did pay. How about giving the law abiding citizens of this country all their tax money back first. Please get grip.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I will be fine with that as soon as I get all my federal income tax I paid in for the past 40 years plus interest plus interest. They belong in prison for tax evasion. They belong in prison for violating our immigration laws. You want to give them a refund on the taxes they actually did pay. How about giving the law abiding citizens of this country all their tax money back first. Please get grip.
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Well you are ejecting them out of the country AFTER they paid into taxes. They at least deserve a thousand dollars a year when being deported depending on how long they lived here. They would probably pay into income taxes if people like you didnt hate them so much. I think if an immigrant has mingled among us for 10 years that proves they deserve to be a citizen. They are already acclimated and can pay even more taxes if we include them as a citizen.
 
Jack Hays said:
Do you think this is a fair review of the issue?

[h=3]How VA Reform Turned into a Fight Over Privatization - The Atlantic[/h]https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/...va...privatization/533490/



Jul 17, 2017 - How VA Reform Turned Into a Fight Over Privatization. Democrats and service organizations worry that a Republican push to expand health-care choices for veterans will sap money from the ailing federal system. The office of veterans affairs. Charles Dharapak / AP ...
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Three years later, attempts by Republicans in Congress and the Trump administration to extend and significantly expand the Choice Program have given these groups and leading Democrats a new worry: a creeping privatization of the VA.
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Death by a thousand cuts, after all, one often hears "We have to pay for the Choice program somehow, therefore we're cutting back services and initiating a hiring freeze", both things which actually did happen earlier in 2017.

I mentioned toxic corporate culture in some areas of VA bureaucracy, and it's a valid criticism.
For decades, the VA was indeed the symbol of a moribund and stagnant government bureaucracy more concerned with protecting its gravy than delivering proper care, despite the many dedicated and hardworking medical professionals who have transitioned through the system over the years.

But after several major scandals, and with the help of a GEORGE W. BUSH administration appointee, Anthony J. Principi, a turnaround began in earnest. Although Principi would later become mired in a few corruption scandals of his own later in his tenure, his overall direction and several of his ideas took root and within a year and a half of his taking office, positive trends were visible.

Plenty of longtime career bureaucrats in the system try to buck the efforts to streamline because for them it represents an inconvenience at the very least, or exposure of their own dismal performance.

When every single veterans group out there opposes the trend toward privatization, and expresses concerns over things like talk that Republicans would tie legislation expanding private health-care options for veterans to an increase in the debt ceiling, it should tell people that maybe those concerns are valid but I get the gut feeling that Ryan, McConnell and Trump and their cronies treat the response from veterans organizations the way they treat climate scientists, except maybe the veterans groups get a pat on the head and a few extra "THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE" utterances.

The many crises that come out the VA ARE LARGELY the fault of Congress after Congress, who treat health care funding for the VA like a political football, and while many Dems can indeed be held responsible, the words "BUDGET CUTS" and "PRIVATIZATION" come exclusively out of the mouths of people who have hatred for government programs in their DNA.

You can't tell me that hundreds of thousands of doctors, nurses, aides, technologists and other medical professionals all harbor a hatred for disabled veterans. It's simply not possible.
You CAN tell me that, left to deal with a spiteful bunch of politicians only seeking a photo op and Potemkin Village style reform, a bureaucracy and upper management will respond accordingly...and I'll buy that for a dollar, and that's what's been happening for the last three or four decades.

Every piece of this is man's bull****. They call this war "a cloud over the land" but they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say "****, it's rainin'!"
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Privatization and all that goes with it aren't my words, or one of my hunches.
Donald Trump and most of his core staff have used the word verbatim many times.
I know from almost six years of experience on the private sector merry go round with my wife that there is nothing out there that can even remotely provide what the VA provides. It needs to be properly funded and FIXED, not shut down, and anyone who says "It can't happen here" hasn't had their ear to the ground. This administration and this Congress have absolutely NO INTENTION of properly funding or fixing the VA. They'd rather see it go the way of what they call "Obamacare".
 
tres borrachos said:
He probably realizes that. As you said, the rest of us do. However, he is exactly right that the Republicans have the upper hand. You do know that, right? They have the majorities in the Senate and Congress, and they control the White House. They need to compromise and work with the minority party in order to get 11 of them to cross over party lines. You do understand that, right? The rest of us do.
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I get a sense of "Here it is, take it or leave it, no wait...we're going to shove it down your throats, and if you don't like it, we'll blame you for not swallowing it."
Not too unlike the Harvey Weinstein School of Romance, where the Republicans are Harvey and the Dems are all those young ladies he likes to push up against the wall.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
I already explained it to you. I also didn't bring it up if you recall. I can tell this is a worthless pursuit; and this is also the wrong thread for it.
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You rationalized your way to it, that's all. Now go hide in your safe space because you can't deal with the fact that Trump Derangement Syndrome is something a lot of people on the left are guilty of.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Well you are ejecting them out of the country AFTER they paid into taxes. They at least deserve a thousand dollars a year when being deported depending on how long they lived here. They would probably pay into income taxes if people like you didnt hate them so much. I think if an immigrant has mingled among us for 10 years that proves they deserve to be a citizen. They are already acclimated and can pay even more taxes if we include them as a citizen.
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If you buy a product, You pay state and local taxes, Illegals, Criminals, citizens alike no difference...... so making like Paying a "STATE" tax makes it all better. The substantial tax is the STATE and FEDERAL Income tax that does what? PAY FOR ALL PUBLIC Services, Like? CHIP, Military, Medicare, or did I mention Social Security and what not.


With that, so are you saying they get a pass because they flew under the RADAR for 10+ years so they assimilated to our country. So let me ask you, there is a 9 year old that came in just recently (1 year ago) and is under DACA protection, there is also a 27 year old that has been here for 10+ years but under DACA protection as well, So are you saying the 27 year old is different than the 9 year old and the 9 yr old should be deported because they have not lived long enough in our country? PRETTY DUMB Right?


They are all ILLEGAL, caught today, caught tomorrow, caught 10 years from now. Paying State General Excise Tax does NOT mean you are exempt, I pay my share of State taxes, from food, to cars, to housing, to games, to golf.... BUT I also pay my substantial income taxes, that includes STATE and FEDERAL withholding along with Social Security and Employment Tax. OF WHICH ILLEGALS DO NOT PAY NOR DO THESE DACA PAY.

my state tax is 4.76% So when they buy a hamburger from McDonalds to eat....is it substantial to pay for an AMERICAN CITIZENS medicare, Social Security, what about public funded Schools, and health services...NOT EVEN CLOSE!


YES THEY ARE ILLEGAL.....and NO they DO NOT CONTRIBUTE THEIR FAIR SHARE...
 
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dirtpoorchris said:
Well you are ejecting them out of the country AFTER they paid into taxes. They at least deserve a thousand dollars a year when being deported depending on how long they lived here. They would probably pay into income taxes if people like you didnt hate them so much. I think if an immigrant has mingled among us for 10 years that proves they deserve to be a citizen. They are already acclimated and can pay even more taxes if we include them as a citizen.
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you've been spending too much time with your liberal friends out in Washington

either you believe in the rule of law, or you dont

and i hate all the bull**** excuses people come up with for these individuals....

did your mom and dad teach you right from wrong? it is a very easy concept....

their parents did WRONG....but these adults did nothing to fix the situation....so yes, i hold them accountable also

when there is a will, there is usually a way....there was NO WILL to make this right....they just kept hoping that the laws would change
 
Harshaw said:
And the results of the other "national election" which happened on the same day -- the vote for the House -- showed a Republican-over-Democrat vote edge almost as large as Mrs. Clinton's over Trump's. That encompassed every voter in every district, the same electorate as in the Presidential race, and three million more of them pulled levers for Republicans than they did Democrats.

So why would the Presidential election -- which is, after all, a single personality against a single personality, moreso than it is party vs. party -- be more of an indicator than the House election? Especially when it comes to what we're facing this year, Congressional elections?
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That's not quite right. House Republicans won the popular vote by less than 1.4 million votes. Clinton won the popular vote by more than 2.8 million votes. That's an appreciable difference. Still, the Democrat won one way and the Republicans won the other way.

I did not say that presidential elections are more useful than House elections in forecasting the results of future elections. I think they both have their uses. Representatives tend to be gerrymandered and are usually heavily favored incumbents. Presidential elections are obviously very different.

As the 2016 election showed us, past elections are not always indicative of future elections. The 2018 elections might also be a surprise - in any number of ways.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Well you are ejecting them out of the country AFTER they paid into taxes. They at least deserve a thousand dollars a year when being deported depending on how long they lived here. They would probably pay into income taxes if people like you didnt hate them so much. I think if an immigrant has mingled among us for 10 years that proves they deserve to be a citizen. They are already acclimated and can pay even more taxes if we include them as a citizen.
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https://youtu.be/8YICT8RDJ9Y?t=11s

"shes been here since she was 1 years old"

SHE DOESNT SPEAK English? But the rest of the 799,999 that came when they were 1 years old Speak English and acclimated and Assimilated to America? REALLY??? REALLY???

https://youtu.be/uMw6pk0jcaM?t=26s

Another one... 23 years old. been here for 22 years.... Doesnt speak english? LOL
 
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jghiretire said:
Trump changed his mind because of Miller and Kelly. Apparently they're co-presidents now. But please stay uninformed. It's working for you.
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Uninformed about what? The dems shut down the government in an attempt to gain leverage on DACA. That isn't even remotely in doubt. Except among true believers like you.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
That's not quite right. House Republicans won the popular vote by less than 1.4 million votes. Clinton won the popular vote by more than 2.8 million votes. That's an appreciable difference. Still, the Democrat won one way and the Republicans won the other way.
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It should be pointed out that Hillarys entire margin of victory was due to the results in a single state--California. In the other 49 states, Trump beat by over a million votes.
 
Fletch said:
It should be pointed out that Hillarys entire margin of victory was due to the results in a single state--California. In the other 49 states, Trump beat by over a million votes.
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Hilarious isnt it

Popular Vote

Hilary - 65,853,516

Trump - 62,984,825

Difference Hilary + 2,868,691


Difference in California ALONE

Hilary - 8,753,788
Trump - 4,483,810

Difference - 4,269,978 + Hilary,

So net She GAINED the MOST popular VOTE from ONE State... where she also won the Electoral.

BUT LOST the reaming States in Popular Vote and ELECTORAL.


So are we saying California by volume dictates the other 49 states...LOL......
 
Fletch said:
It should be pointed out that Hillarys entire margin of victory was due to the results in a single state--California. In the other 49 states, Trump beat by over a million votes.
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That's a dishonest way of presenting what happened. The president won the popular vote in 30 states. Clinton won the popular vote in 20 states and DC. Clinton's margin of victory nationally was smaller than her margin of victory in CA, but she won the popular vote in 21 jursidictions, not one.

If you want to talk about why that's not fair or relevant, I will take that conversation all day. After all, the only reason that CA's votes were diluted was because of the Electoral College. That's the thing that put the current president in the WH.
 
Exactice said:
Hilarious isnt it

Popular Vote

Hilary - 65,853,516

Trump - 62,984,825

Difference Hilary + 2,868,691


Difference in California ALONE

Hilary - 8,753,788
Trump - 4,483,810

Difference - 4,269,978 + Hilary,

So net She GAINED the MOST popular VOTE from ONE State... where she also won the Electoral.

BUT LOST the reaming States in Popular Vote and ELECTORAL.


So are we saying California by volume dictates the other 49 states...LOL......
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Please see post # 1216. I know you guys like to distort facts all the time, but this little gem will not stand. You'll never understand the whole story if you just let Sean Hannity read you the Cliff's Notes.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
That's a dishonest way of presenting what happened. The president won the popular vote in 30 states. Clinton won the popular vote in 20 states and DC. Clinton's margin of victory nationally was smaller than her margin of victory in CA, but she won the popular vote in 21 jursidictions, not one.

If you want to talk about why that's not fair or relevant, I will take that conversation all day. After all, the only reason that CA's votes were diluted was because of the Electoral College. That's the thing that put the current president in the WH.
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Does any sane-thinking person believe that California's vote totals are accurate?

Jerry Brown just signed a bill that allows illegals to vote unchallenged if they have a driver's license, which many do there.

Anybody can vote in California. Alive, dead, legal, illegal, as many times as they want.
 
tres borrachos said:
He probably realizes that. As you said, the rest of us do. However, he is exactly right that the Republicans have the upper hand. You do know that, right? They have the majorities in the Senate and Congress, and they control the White House. They need to compromise and work with the minority party in order to get 11 of them to cross over party lines. You do understand that, right? The rest of us do.
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And that was done until your boy Chuckie decided to grandstand on his own. You figured that out, right?
 
Erod said:
Does any sane-thinking person believe that California's vote totals are accurate?

Jerry Brown just signed a bill that allows illegals to vote unchallenged if they have a driver's license, which many do there.

Anybody can vote in California. Alive, dead, legal, illegal, as many times as they want.
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Who cares? Why are you all so insecure about Clinton's popular vote win? I didn't even bring this up. I'm just defending my posts against the misinformation that people are spitting at them.

Your guy won the election, get over it!
 
Blue_State said:
Pure gold...let the wealth and prosperity wash over you and thank a Democrat.
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You evidently do not know what iron pyrite is go figure.
Ps a democrat has never given me any wealth or prosperity.
 
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