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'New California' Campaign Aims to Separate Rural Counties from Coastal Cities

Conservative said:
But percentages only represent people whereas the actual over 7 million Californians are ACTUAL people that are being ignored and yet California is being given a pass on this very poor performance not only in poverty but with homelessness, anti business activity, and illegal aliens and support for sanctuary cities.
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Thank you for seconding my post.

Sure, those 7 million are actual people. The million or so people who live in Montana are actual people as well. There are some three hundred million actual people living in the US, and seven billion and growing worldwide. All of them are actual people. What is your point?
 
Conservative said:
And I will continue to have opposition to the creation of dependence by spending only in the name of compassion yet never solving a problem. Feel good rhetoric and thinking only with your heart may make you feel good but it doesn't change human behavior which generated the problems in the first place. Sometime tough love is required to shock people into reality, happens a lot with the way parents handle their kids to change their behavior
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Apparently, your definition of the term "liberalism" is creating a welfare state. Given that definition, we're in agreement: A welfare state is not the way to lift people out of poverty. People who work should have more than people who choose not to work.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Thank you for seconding my post.

Sure, those 7 million are actual people. The million or so people who live in Montana are actual people as well. There are some three hundred million actual people living in the US, and seven billion and growing worldwide. All of them are actual people. What is your point?
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What is the state of California doing to reduce the cost of living to help those people?
 
Conservative said:
What is the state of California doing to reduce the cost of living to help those people?
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Hmm.. now, there's a good question.

The high cost of living is due mainly to the high cost of housing in parts of California. In other parts, housing is pretty cheap. It all depends on supply and demand.

The state does build "affordable" housing, so that should help. It has a higher minimum wage than the federal government requires. Low wage workers can get health insurance through the ACA here. Other than that, I can't think of anything. The state government seems more intent on building a high speed rail system than anything else.

We used to have free tuition at state colleges in California, which is a great way to lift people out of poverty, but no longer. That's one thing that the state should work on.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Hmm.. now, there's a good question.

The high cost of living is due mainly to the high cost of housing in parts of California. In other parts, housing is pretty cheap. It all depends on supply and demand.

The state does build "affordable" housing, so that should help. It has a higher minimum wage than the federal government requires. Low wage workers can get health insurance through the ACA here. Other than that, I can't think of anything. The state government seems more intent on building a high speed rail system than anything else.

We used to have free tuition at state colleges in California, which is a great way to lift people out of poverty, but no longer. That's one thing that the state should work on.
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No matter what the wages are in California or all the social benefits the people get there the free lunch theory doesn't exist and California cost of living is hurt by the taxes in the state that pay for all these so called benefits. What the state should do is enforce immigration laws putting a stop to the illegal drain on social services and then address the tax structure in the state that takes additional income when people make more money. Raising wages and increases services isn't a net gain for income earners.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-taxes-california.aspx
 
Conservative said:
No matter what the wages are in California or all the social benefits the people get there the free lunch theory doesn't exist and California cost of living is hurt by the taxes in the state that pay for all these so called benefits. What the state should do is enforce immigration laws putting a stop to the illegal drain on social services and then address the tax structure in the state that takes additional income when people make more money. Raising wages and increases services isn't a net gain for income earners.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-taxes-california.aspx
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The poor people you're talking about don't pay a lot in taxes, even in tax heavy California.
and the cost of living is due much more to housing costs than to taxes.

As for illegal aliens, the power elite here love them, just as they do everywhere. It's a way to exploit cheap labor, pure and simple. As for them taking jobs while being a burden on social services, let's make up our minds:

schrodingers-immigrant-simultaneously-a-lazy-freeloader-and-a-job-stealing-menace.jpg
 
Khayembii Communique said:
This is some right wing loony crap. I don't even know why it's being reported. Lol look at their "Declaration of Independence" it's like 3 pages long and terribly written.

But it would be great if states started passing urbanization initiatives to encourage people to move away from rural areas into cities.
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It's not just the political right in California that want to separate. The political left wants to as well. Some want to split California and other want to Secede from the union, from what I've caught. Yeah, its loony all right, but its a lunacy that both ends of the California political spectrum appear to share.

Meet the founders of California's separatist ... - The Mercury News
https://www.mercurynews.com/.../calexit-meet-the-founders-of-californias-separatist-...
Marcus Ruiz Evans, center, of the Yes California campaign, has a conservative background but is pushing a now-liberal cause: separating from Donald Trump's America. By Matthew Artz |. PUBLISHED: November 26, 2016 at 12:00 pm | UPDATED: November 27, 2016 at 2:44 am. After a Manhattan billionaire led a wave of ...

Meet the California Separatists Leading a New Movement to Secede ...
https://www.vice.com/.../meet-the-californians-inspired-by-scotland-to-pursue-indepe...

Feb 16, 2016 - Separatist views aside, Marinelli is just a 29-year-old moderate liberal from Buffalo, New York, who says he used to be "the conservative poster boy American patriotic citizen." Since he's not a native Californian, he considers himself an immigrant to the state, and professes a love for the diversity of cultures ...

'Calexit' would be a disaster for progressive values - LA Times
www.latimes.com/.../op.../la-oe-friedersdorf-calexit-unprogressive-20170129-story.ht...
Calexit movement exploits liberal desire for purity, but distracts from better anti-Trump efforts. ... A petition for a “Calexit” vote would begin the long, multi-step process for withdrawing California from the United States. (Illustration by Anthony Russo / For The Times). Conor Friedersdorf. Imagine if President Trump announced ...
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Conservative said:
Good, then use the ignore function as all those links proved absolutely nothing but took up space. You refuted nothing especially with regard to the thread topic and the attitude of the liberal elite in California who prefer power to actually solving problems. California liberalism has set the standards for all to see but you choose to ignore that reality. This is the country that California wants, open borders, massive dependence, high cost of living, career politicians keeping people dependent and some Californians see that reality and are sick and tired of it.
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The ignore function is like term limits. It takes decision-making away from the individual and imposes a form of inhibiting freedom of speech onto oneself. I can simply refuse to respond or say I don’t believe your post was responsive and give the reasons why. Perhaps further discourse could help us come to a better understanding. It has certainly helped me in the past. In addition, and perhaps most important, regardless of how much we may disagree, important issues are addressed and information, facts and data, are shared with others that they may find valuable and may want to join the conversation. That’s a good thing.

I simply gave data and facts that both refuted and agreed with what you said. For instance, you said that CA has the highest number of people in poverty, which is true but not a fair measure because CA is by far the most populous state in the Union and, in fact, there are a number of states with a worse poverty rate than CA. Nonetheless, like CA, the entire nation has too high a poverty rate. I’d say we’re in agreement there but for, perhaps, what the most appropriate method of measuring poverty.
I agreed with you on the fact of a high degree of homelessness in CA. I gave what are reasons for that homelessness and recommended solution. I’d be interested in what solutions you might have.

I agreed with you on the fact of the high cost of living in CA. That’s largely a function of supply and demand. People are still moving to CA at a higher rate than the national average, hence the demand, which affordable supply can’t keep up with. There is more affordable housing projects coming along in CA than in years before. Partial solution.
I gave evidence that refuted your immigration claim while you haven’t given any that supported your claim.

Though I used GDP per capita to show that CA was an excellent state to do business based on results, I’ll add another. Business growth. Based on growth, the link below gives an article ranking CA #2 in business growth. It shows all these publications about how CA is so anti-business because of high corporate state taxes is simply not true. To business, CA is still the golden state to do business:

State Economic Growth Rankings - Business Insider

I will go on using facts and data to address the claims you post as I see fit, in agreement or not, regardless of you hitting the ignorance button. Nice try with your “Venus fly-trap gambit.
 
bluesmoke said:
The ignore function is like term limits. It takes decision-making away from the individual and imposes a form of inhibiting freedom of speech onto oneself. I can simply refuse to respond or say I don’t believe your post was responsive and give the reasons why. Perhaps further discourse could help us come to a better understanding. It has certainly helped me in the past. In addition, and perhaps most important, regardless of how much we may disagree, important issues are addressed and information, facts and data, are shared with others that they may find valuable and may want to join the conversation. That’s a good thing.

I simply gave data and facts that both refuted and agreed with what you said. For instance, you said that CA has the highest number of people in poverty, which is true but not a fair measure because CA is by far the most populous state in the Union and, in fact, there are a number of states with a worse poverty rate than CA. Nonetheless, like CA, the entire nation has too high a poverty rate. I’d say we’re in agreement there but for, perhaps, what the most appropriate method of measuring poverty.
I agreed with you on the fact of a high degree of homelessness in CA. I gave what are reasons for that homelessness and recommended solution. I’d be interested in what solutions you might have.

I agreed with you on the fact of the high cost of living in CA. That’s largely a function of supply and demand. People are still moving to CA at a higher rate than the national average, hence the demand, which affordable supply can’t keep up with. There is more affordable housing projects coming along in CA than in years before. Partial solution.
I gave evidence that refuted your immigration claim while you haven’t given any that supported your claim.

Though I used GDP per capita to show that CA was an excellent state to do business based on results, I’ll add another. Business growth. Based on growth, the link below gives an article ranking CA #2 in business growth. It shows all these publications about how CA is so anti-business because of high corporate state taxes is simply not true. To business, CA is still the golden state to do business:

State Economic Growth Rankings - Business Insider

I will go on using facts and data to address the claims you post as I see fit, in agreement or not, regardless of you hitting the ignorance button. Nice try with your “Venus fly-trap gambit.
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You are so right, having over 7 million below the poverty level, leading the nation in homelessness, violating federal immigration laws seems to make those so called facts worthless but then again that is liberal compassion which means keep people dependent so you can keep control and power. California has among the highest cost of living and tax structure in the nation, why would business relocate there?

Have you paid any attention to football? Here is an example John Gruden was hired to coach the Raiders on a 10 year deal, two years in California and 8 years in Vegas. How do you think his contract was structured? Businesses operate the same way, tax structure that hurts businesses and individuals drives them out not into the state and does nothing for the entitlement mentality created there or the homeless or those in poverty.
 
Conservative said:
You are so right, having over 7 million below the poverty level, leading the nation in homelessness, violating federal immigration laws seems to make those so called facts worthless but then again that is liberal compassion which means keep people dependent so you can keep control and power. California has among the highest cost of living and tax structure in the nation, why would business relocate there?

Have you paid any attention to football? Here is an example John Gruden was hired to coach the Raiders on a 10 year deal, two years in California and 8 years in Vegas. How do you think his contract was structured? Businesses operate the same way, tax structure that hurts businesses and individuals drives them out not into the state and does nothing for the entitlement mentality created there or the homeless or those in poverty.
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You are so right, having over 7 million below the poverty level, leading the nation in homelessness, violating federal immigration laws seems to make those so called facts worthless but then again that is liberal compassion which means keep people dependent so you can keep control and power. California has among the highest cost of living and tax structure in the nation, why would business relocate there?

Have you paid any attention to football? Here is an example John Gruden was hired to coach the Raiders on a 10-year deal, two years in California and 8 years in Vegas. How do you think his contract was structured? Businesses operate the same way, tax structure that hurts businesses and individuals drives them out not into the state and does nothing for the entitlement mentality created there or the homeless or those in poverty.

You are so wrong by giving false data on those living below the poverty level in CA. The % in poverty for CA for the two years 2015 – 2016, as I’ve pointed out before, was 13.9%. To be as close as possible, I averaged the CA population for 2015 and 2016 and got 39M. If you take 13.9% of 39M, you get 5.4M. Your figure of 7M is 29.6% higher, and wrong.

I gave you causes of homelessness and solution that would help correct that problem. You don’t bother with solution and all you can do is complain, point your finger and lay blame.

CA is not violating immigration laws because they are not stopping the Fed from enforcing those laws. CA is simply codifying existing law which allows them to NOT ENFORCE federal immigration law.

I already showed that we have measurable proof that in percentage comparison, more people move to CA than is the average for other states. Results matter.

I pointed out to you that business growth is #2 in the nation and GDP per capita is 11th. If CA is anti-business, how come businesses do so well in CA and so much business is done in CA? Businesses don’t care about a states attitude towards or many requirements, regulation and cost as long as they can make a profit. Obviously, businesses are doing better in CA than most other states. Those are the facts, regardless of to which states companies are relocating.

You don’t bother with statistics and facts. You apparently don’t believe in them and your only belief is your own ideology. Too bad you can’t back-up your words with facts. And, unfortunately, you're all problem without any practical solution.

In response to your football analogy, please see the above.
 
bluesmoke said:
You are so right, having over 7 million below the poverty level, leading the nation in homelessness, violating federal immigration laws seems to make those so called facts worthless but then again that is liberal compassion which means keep people dependent so you can keep control and power. California has among the highest cost of living and tax structure in the nation, why would business relocate there?

Have you paid any attention to football? Here is an example John Gruden was hired to coach the Raiders on a 10-year deal, two years in California and 8 years in Vegas. How do you think his contract was structured? Businesses operate the same way, tax structure that hurts businesses and individuals drives them out not into the state and does nothing for the entitlement mentality created there or the homeless or those in poverty.

You are so wrong by giving false data on those living below the poverty level in CA. The % in poverty for CA for the two years 2015 – 2016, as I’ve pointed out before, was 13.9%. To be as close as possible, I averaged the CA population for 2015 and 2016 and got 39M. If you take 13.9% of 39M, you get 5.4M. Your figure of 7M is 29.6% higher, and wrong.

I gave you causes of homelessness and solution that would help correct that problem. You don’t bother with solution and all you can do is complain, point your finger and lay blame.

CA is not violating immigration laws because they are not stopping the Fed from enforcing those laws. CA is simply codifying existing law which allows them to NOT ENFORCE federal immigration law.

I already showed that we have measurable proof that in percentage comparison, more people move to CA than is the average for other states. Results matter.

I pointed out to you that business growth is #2 in the nation and GDP per capita is 11th. If CA is anti-business, how come businesses do so well in CA and so much business is done in CA? Businesses don’t care about a states attitude towards or many requirements, regulation and cost as long as they can make a profit. Obviously, businesses are doing better in CA than most other states. Those are the facts, regardless of to which states companies are relocating.

You don’t bother with statistics and facts. You apparently don’t believe in them and your only belief is your own ideology. Too bad you can’t back-up your words with facts. And, unfortunately, you're all problem without any practical solution.

In response to your football analogy, please see the above.
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Giving me or anyone else a solution may make you feel good but it doesn't do a damn thing to help those below poverty and homeless. Amazing with all that growth in business the problems get worse which tells you what kind of jobs are being created as the gap between the rich and poor gets greater. That is true liberal compassion.

Your so called statistics are out of context which you don't seem to understand. That doesn't do much for your credibility. Any idea how many of those people moving to California do so because of the benefits they receive there? Think about it and deliver some real compassion not just lip service
 
eohrnberger said:
It's not just the political right in California that want to separate. The political left wants to as well. Some want to split California and other want to Secede from the union, from what I've caught. Yeah, its loony all right, but its a lunacy that both ends of the California political spectrum appear to share.
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So far though, not much has happened, and I don't think we'll ever hit a majority of people who like this idea.
 
Soopairik said:
So far though, not much has happened, and I don't think we'll ever hit a majority of people who like this idea.
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Agreed. Highly unlikely that this is going to happen.

Sacramento needs to stop running off to the extremist far left, alienating all those that don't agree with those public policies. Moderation in this would be advised.
 
Conservative said:
Giving me or anyone else a solution may make you feel good but it doesn't do a damn thing to help those below poverty and homeless. Amazing with all that growth in business the problems get worse which tells you what kind of jobs are being created as the gap between the rich and poor gets greater. That is true liberal compassion.

Your so called statistics are out of context which you don't seem to understand. That doesn't do much for your credibility. Any idea how many of those people moving to California do so because of the benefits they receive there? Think about it and deliver some real compassion not just lip service
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‘Giving me or anyone else a solution may make you feel good but it doesn't do a damn thing to help those below poverty and homeless.’

I don’t know about “feel good”. There’s always the worry that there won’t be enough political (money) backing to make the programs that make-up the solution work. At least I gave solution while you did not. Being, in so many words, by stabilizing people through shelter, moving them into permanent housing, implementing assistance programs to keep them in their housing and finding and training for work.

‘Amazing with all that growth in business the problems get worse which tells you what kind of jobs are being created as the gap between the rich and poor gets greater. That is true liberal compassion.’

I told you why with all the business growth (and record profits), we still have problems, being that the system distributes wealth, especially through the tax code, more favorably to those with the most than those with less. Since about 1976, wage increases have not kept up with productivity as it had before. However, rather than “share the wealth”, corps, who always get the money first before then they decide how much workers get, pocket more than before. Workers are not getting merit raises. I also gave the solution. Change the tax code to go in reverse. More for those with the less and less, or none, for those with the more.

You are factually wrong in saying the problems of poverty and homelessness get worse. You knowingly repeat false information. Poverty has, in fact by official record, improved in CA as I’ve pointed out before. Homelessness has not gotten worse but unfortunately has not improved from 2013 to 2017 while nationwide homelessness has improved.

‘Your so called statistics are out of context which you don't seem to understand. That doesn't do much for your credibility. Any idea how many of those people moving to California do so because of the benefits they receive there? Think about it and deliver some real compassion not just lip service’

Your term “so-called” is inappropriate as my statistics are valid and you have no facts or other data that refute my figures. Your credibility is more questionable than mine as I do use facts and data to support what I say and give sources of those facts and data.

The homeless have the same rights to benefits as anybody else. They just don’t take much advantage as do other qualifying individuals. Only 10-15% of homeless people received benefits from SSI and SSDI assistance (2010 Annual Homeless Assessment Report) whereas nearly 37% have physical or mental disabilities (national figure is 15%). That doesn’t mean others than that 37% are not qualified:

https://ddp.policyresearchinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Johnson_final_C3.pdf

You seem rather weak in your own belief in what you have said regarding this subject because you obviously have done hardly any research. You are unwilling to work for your own belief to get the facts and data to back-up your own words and contribute anything substantive to this debate.

Speaking of poverty in the context of the topic of this thread, is to separate rural counties from coastal cities, every county with the highest poverty rate is a rural county.

California Population in Poverty Percentage County Rank Based on ACS 2010-2014 data

Poverty map of CA counties:

http://www.countyhealthrankings.org/sites/default/files/state/downloads/CHR2015_CA_0.pdf
 
bluesmoke said:
‘Giving me or anyone else a solution may make you feel good but it doesn't do a damn thing to help those below poverty and homeless.’

I don’t know about “feel good”. There’s always the worry that there won’t be enough political (money) backing to make the programs that make-up the solution work. At least I gave solution while you did not. Being, in so many words, by stabilizing people through shelter, moving them into permanent housing, implementing assistance programs to keep them in their housing and finding and training for work.

‘Amazing with all that growth in business the problems get worse which tells you what kind of jobs are being created as the gap between the rich and poor gets greater. That is true liberal compassion.’

I told you why with all the business growth (and record profits), we still have problems, being that the system distributes wealth, especially through the tax code, more favorably to those with the most than those with less. Since about 1976, wage increases have not kept up with productivity as it had before. However, rather than “share the wealth”, corps, who always get the money first before then they decide how much workers get, pocket more than before. Workers are not getting merit raises. I also gave the solution. Change the tax code to go in reverse. More for those with the less and less, or none, for those with the more.

You are factually wrong in saying the problems of poverty and homelessness get worse. You knowingly repeat false information. Poverty has, in fact by official record, improved in CA as I’ve pointed out before. Homelessness has not gotten worse but unfortunately has not improved from 2013 to 2017 while nationwide homelessness has improved.

‘Your so called statistics are out of context which you don't seem to understand. That doesn't do much for your credibility. Any idea how many of those people moving to California do so because of the benefits they receive there? Think about it and deliver some real compassion not just lip service’

Your term “so-called” is inappropriate as my statistics are valid and you have no facts or other data that refute my figures. Your credibility is more questionable than mine as I do use facts and data to support what I say and give sources of those facts and data.

The homeless have the same rights to benefits as anybody else. They just don’t take much advantage as do other qualifying individuals. Only 10-15% of homeless people received benefits from SSI and SSDI assistance (2010 Annual Homeless Assessment Report) whereas nearly 37% have physical or mental disabilities (national figure is 15%). That doesn’t mean others than that 37% are not qualified:

https://ddp.policyresearchinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Johnson_final_C3.pdf

You seem rather weak in your own belief in what you have said regarding this subject because you obviously have done hardly any research. You are unwilling to work for your own belief to get the facts and data to back-up your own words and contribute anything substantive to this debate.

Speaking of poverty in the context of the topic of this thread, is to separate rural counties from coastal cities, every county with the highest poverty rate is a rural county.

California Population in Poverty Percentage County Rank Based on ACS 2010-2014 data

Poverty map of CA counties:

http://www.countyhealthrankings.org/sites/default/files/state/downloads/CHR2015_CA_0.pdf
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Over 7 million Californians are below the poverty level and yes that number has increased as the gap gets wider but you buy leftwing rhetoric and ignore leftwing results. This is 2017, not 2014 and until you realize that life is more than just social interests of yours you aren't going to have a lot of credibility. California is BILLIONS in debt has the entitlement mentality, harbors illegal aliens at a cost to the taxpayers but none of that bothers you believe you feel instead of actually thinking. The people in the Red part of California are getting screwed and now this. California and apparently you live in an alternative universe

California Democrats want some businesses to fork over half tax-cut savings to state | Fox News

Giving people money doesn't change their behavior, making them work for it does. Redistribution is what the left promotes and that just creates more dependence thus more power
 
Conservative said:
Over 7 million Californians are below the poverty level and yes that number has increased as the gap gets wider but you buy leftwing rhetoric and ignore leftwing results. This is 2017, not 2014 and until you realize that life is more than just social interests of yours you aren't going to have a lot of credibility. California is BILLIONS in debt has the entitlement mentality, harbors illegal aliens at a cost to the taxpayers but none of that bothers you believe you feel instead of actually thinking. The people in the Red part of California are getting screwed and now this. California and apparently you live in an alternative universe

California Democrats want some businesses to fork over half tax-cut savings to state | Fox News

Giving people money doesn't change their behavior, making them work for it does. Redistribution is what the left promotes and that just creates more dependence thus more power
Click to expand...

If the behavior that you desire most is having the folks electing mostly demorats then the system is working just fine in CA. If the behavior that you desire most is having the folks electing mostly incumbents then the system is working just fine nationwide.
 
Conservative said:
Over 7 million Californians are below the poverty level and yes that number has increased as the gap gets wider but you buy leftwing rhetoric and ignore leftwing results. This is 2017, not 2014 and until you realize that life is more than just social interests of yours you aren't going to have a lot of credibility. California is BILLIONS in debt has the entitlement mentality, harbors illegal aliens at a cost to the taxpayers but none of that bothers you believe you feel instead of actually thinking. The people in the Red part of California are getting screwed and now this. California and apparently you live in an alternative universe

California Democrats want some businesses to fork over half tax-cut savings to state | Fox News

Giving people money doesn't change their behavior, making them work for it does. Redistribution is what the left promotes and that just creates more dependence thus more power
Click to expand...

“Over 7 million Californians are below the poverty level”

I gave you a reference to support my refutation of your 7M figure. Can you give a reference of data to support your 7M claim? Otherwise, you’re just joining those who make stuff up. If you show the facts, I will respectfully acknowledge same.

“This is 2017, not 2014”

I used 2010 – 2014 figures to show which CA counties were in poverty and that they were all in the region that the proponents of what you support want as their own state. Again, what data do you have to refute that information, as I keep asking you and keep pointing out that you refuse to provide?

“life is more than just social interests”

I agree. However, poverty and homelessness ARE social interests and, like everything, affects and is affected by the economy.

“you aren't going to have a lot of credibility”

By providing reference of data that supports what I say and refutes what you say, while you don’t, determines which of us is more credible. What data and reference can you show to refute what I say?

“California is BILLIONS in debt”

Very true. What is also true is that the state has improved financially having improved from a budget deficit of nearly $23B 2011 - 2012 to an estimated $1.6B 2017 – 2018 after several years of a balanced budget coming out of the Great Recession and with Jerry Brown taking over after Arnold Schwarzenegger.

“harbors illegal aliens at a cost to the taxpayers”

What data can you provide that proves illegal immigrants cost more to the taxpayers than do legal residents?

“none of that bothers you”

Homelessness, poverty, people suffering for lack of health coverage bothers me. As does debt. I believe to be the best society we can be, we should contribute to the well-being of the disadvantaged and those with the least.

“instead of actually thinking”

Did you ever think of providing supporting data to back up what you claim? You can skip the stuff where we agree.

“The people in the Red part of California are getting screwed”

I’m just guessing, but if all the poorest counties are in the red part, and the highest percentage of homeless by county, then they must be getting the most government assistance due to poverty and homelessness than the coastal cities.

CA is just trying to get the corps to fork over what the Republicans promised Trump’s tax plan would trickle down to them, even though similar plans in the past have never done so, and reverse the continued distribution of wealth to the rich and corps. Or, can you show data otherwise?

Just some added data, the following link, though a limited number of counties, shows a higher percentage by county population as of 2012 in the red counties than the coastal counties. What data do you have to show otherwise?

http://ahcd.assembly.ca.gov/sites/a...hearings/Fact sheet on Homelessness in CA.pdf

Ca budget deficit by year:

California's budget deficit is back, Gov. Jerry Brown says

You just have an unsupported belief. Most of what you say is ideology without any supporting facts and data.
 
bluesmoke said:
“Over 7 million Californians are below the poverty level”

I gave you a reference to support my refutation of your 7M figure. Can you give a reference of data to support your 7M claim? Otherwise, you’re just joining those who make stuff up. If you show the facts, I will respectfully acknowledge same.

“This is 2017, not 2014”

I used 2010 – 2014 figures to show which CA counties were in poverty and that they were all in the region that the proponents of what you support want as their own state. Again, what data do you have to refute that information, as I keep asking you and keep pointing out that you refuse to provide?

“life is more than just social interests”

I agree. However, poverty and homelessness ARE social interests and, like everything, affects and is affected by the economy.

“you aren't going to have a lot of credibility”

By providing reference of data that supports what I say and refutes what you say, while you don’t, determines which of us is more credible. What data and reference can you show to refute what I say?

“California is BILLIONS in debt”

Very true. What is also true is that the state has improved financially having improved from a budget deficit of nearly $23B 2011 - 2012 to an estimated $1.6B 2017 – 2018 after several years of a balanced budget coming out of the Great Recession and with Jerry Brown taking over after Arnold Schwarzenegger.

“harbors illegal aliens at a cost to the taxpayers”

What data can you provide that proves illegal immigrants cost more to the taxpayers than do legal residents?

“none of that bothers you”

Homelessness, poverty, people suffering for lack of health coverage bothers me. As does debt. I believe to be the best society we can be, we should contribute to the well-being of the disadvantaged and those with the least.

“instead of actually thinking”

Did you ever think of providing supporting data to back up what you claim? You can skip the stuff where we agree.

“The people in the Red part of California are getting screwed”

I’m just guessing, but if all the poorest counties are in the red part, and the highest percentage of homeless by county, then they must be getting the most government assistance due to poverty and homelessness than the coastal cities.

CA is just trying to get the corps to fork over what the Republicans promised Trump’s tax plan would trickle down to them, even though similar plans in the past have never done so, and reverse the continued distribution of wealth to the rich and corps. Or, can you show data otherwise?

Just some added data, the following link, though a limited number of counties, shows a higher percentage by county population as of 2012 in the red counties than the coastal counties. What data do you have to show otherwise?

http://ahcd.assembly.ca.gov/sites/a...hearings/Fact sheet on Homelessness in CA.pdf

Ca budget deficit by year:

California's budget deficit is back, Gov. Jerry Brown says

You just have an unsupported belief. Most of what you say is ideology without any supporting facts and data.
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Sorry absolutely too hard to follow your posts, please learn how to use the quote function.
 
Conservative said:
Sorry absolutely too hard to follow your posts, please learn how to use the quote function.
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Really? Do you honestly fail to recognize your own words based on a technicality of a "quote function"? Replace the " with '. Or would you then say that I should have then said "replace " " with ' ? Just, please, honestly respond. Give the bigger world than you a break.
 
bluesmoke said:
Really? Do you honestly fail to recognize your own words based on a technicality of a "quote function"? Replace the " with '. Or would you then say that I should have then said "replace " " with ' ? Just, please, honestly respond. Give the bigger world than you a break.
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I recognize my words but too much of a waste of time to deal with others(you) that don't know how to use the quote function. I have many other leftwing radicals here other than you that I am educating and no time to deal with you
 
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