• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ohio Teacher Put on Leave After Lynching Remark to Black Student

MateoMtnClimber said:
Well, yes, there does, but not all racist words and actions stem from mindless hate. A consideration of degree is appropriate, but "uncomfortable realities", if I understand your meaning, can still be racist.
Click to expand...

When I mentioned "uncomfortable realities" I'm talking about the inherent cultural problems and the addiction to the state. I'd also include the possibility of some heritable genetic traits, particularly when it comes to IQ.

https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232430439_Intelligence_Knowns_and_Unknowns

If you're more interested in the topic those are two very detailed documents that provide a somewhat overwhelming amount of information. I think its importance for me primarily is based upon invention of policy which may be dumping millions or billions of dollars into a fantasy idea that can sometimes even do more harm than good.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
AA is necessary to combat the effects of discrimination. That's my point.
Click to expand...

I disagree. it became corrupted and basically allowed mainly wealthy or middle class black students with lower credentials to get slots ahead of often whites from lower middle class backgrounds. The black kids getting AA when I was in college were not poor blacks from urban schools but mainly wealthier blacks from prep and Catholic schools
 
Koke said:
I disagree that reparations or specific policy benefiting any one ethnic group is always the best approach to mending racial performance differences.

The cohesion of the black family prior to the welfare state was even stronger than the cohesion of the white family. They were making strides to reach the middle class and although there was still a lot of work to do, progress was evident. I think infantalizing any group of people and telling them they need the assistance of a government, whether it be conscious or subconscious, is somewhat humiliating.

Not only that, but you've got Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians (some of the highest IQ groups) who are also disproportionately harmed with AA.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it is the best approach. I said it is necessary. Some form of correction is necessary anyway.

"Disproportionate harm" is a subjective term. One could argue that the disproportionate harm caused to black Americans by slavery, segregation, and discrimination can never be repaired nor reasonably compared to the harm caused to Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians by AA.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but there is no doubt that Americans cannot be trusted to treat each other decently in the absence of some anti-discrimination laws.
 
Koke said:
When I mentioned "uncomfortable realities" I'm talking about the inherent cultural problems and the addiction to the state. I'd also include the possibility of some heritable genetic traits, particularly when it comes to IQ.

https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232430439_Intelligence_Knowns_and_Unknowns

If you're more interested in the topic those are two very detailed documents that provide a somewhat overwhelming amount of information. I think its importance for me primarily is based upon invention of policy which may be dumping millions or billions of dollars into a fantasy idea that can sometimes even do more harm than good.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the papers. They're too long to quickly scan, but I'll look at them more carefully. I'll just say right away, though, that I do not believe that genetic limitations on IQ by race exist.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Thank you for the papers. They're too long to quickly scan, but I'll look at them more carefully. I'll just say right away, though, that I do not believe that genetic limitations on IQ by race exist.
Click to expand...

"Limitations" wouldn't be the correct way to categorize it.

If you're familiar there's obviously a bell curve and averages when it comes to intelligence. Papers do much better than I could at explaining this than I would, obviously.
 
TurtleDude said:
I disagree. it became corrupted and basically allowed mainly wealthy or middle class black students with lower credentials to get slots ahead of often whites from lower middle class backgrounds. The black kids getting AA when I was in college were not poor blacks from urban schools but mainly wealthier blacks from prep and Catholic schools
Click to expand...

Yet black people are still underrepresented in postsecondary institutions. I was rejected by a college I applied to. I guess I would be annoyed if I found out that someone less qualified than me took my place, but I got a world-class education anyway and elsewhere. Honestly, and this is the liberal in me talking, I would rather a black student take that spot if it meant he and his friends and classmates would have a more diverse college experience that led them to be more accepting adults.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
People make mistakes. She had a good record for 22 years. She apologized for what she said. I hardly think we need to shoot her in the head.
Click to expand...

I didn't see where she apopolgized. In the first link though, I do agree with this statement. This is crucial.

“Her job is to teach American history to eighth graders,” Ms. Agee-Bell said. “How can you teach American history and you don’t understand the impact of your words to your students, given our nation’s history?”
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Yet black people are still underrepresented in postsecondary institutions. I was rejected by a college I applied to. I guess I would be annoyed if I found out that someone less qualified than me took my place, but I got a world-class education anyway and elsewhere. Honestly, and this is the liberal in me talking, I would rather a black student take that spot if it meant he and his friends and classmates would have a more diverse college experience that led them to be more accepting adults.
Click to expand...

and I saw a friend of mine-from a rural area of New Hampshire-from the old Acadian culture-first person in his family to go to College, get turned down at several medical schools while wealthy black kids who had gone to Exeter or other prep school get in despite having lower MCAT scores and GPAs. this guy, whose parents were dairy farmers, had his extended family all chip in to help him afford what was then about a 10K a year cost at Yale.

I saw a rich black kid whose father was a wealthy lawyer sit back and party and get into Yale Law with a 3.3 GPA while tons of my friends-many of whom were second generation Jews whose parents survived WWII, were turned down with 3.6-3.9 GPAs and much higher boards.

sorry, I have zero use for affirmative action as it was practiced by elite schools in the 70s and 80s

those schools weren't going for poor inner city blacks who may have been top scholars if they had the benefit of going to good high schools. They were taking black kids who went to good high schools because they knew they wouldn't flunk out even if they had substandard scores and grades. most of the black kids that were at yale and yale law were not from benighted inner city schools or from single parent poor homes. they were kids who had top opportunities and didn't make use of them
 
Tuatara said:
I didn't see where she apopolgized. In the first link though, I do agree with this statement. This is crucial.

“Her job is to teach American history to eighth graders,” Ms. Agee-Bell said. “How can you teach American history and you don’t understand the impact of your words to your students, given our nation’s history?”
Click to expand...

Nathan told his mother that Thole did apologize to him in front of his classmates, saying, she was "'sorry you were offended by what I said.'"

Mother wants teacher removed for telling black son he might be lynched for not focusing - ABC News
 
Oborosen said:
Maybe we can purchase the student some thicker skin while we are at it?
Click to expand...

I'll keep saying it. You do not get to tell other people if they've been discriminated against and to what extent. People, especially black people, do not have to tolerate racist and racially insensitive comments. Even if you think they are overreacting.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
I'll keep saying it. You do not get to tell other people if they've been discriminated against and to what extent. People, especially black people, do not have to tolerate racist and racially insensitive comments. Even if you think they are overreacting.
Click to expand...

If only that particular door opened both ways, instead of people always throwing out the race card.
 
Oborosen said:
If only that particular door opened both ways, instead of people always throwing out the race card.
Click to expand...

I think some things get called racist that are not. This is not one of those cases. The teacher admitted the implications of her words and apologized for them.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
I think some things get called racist that are not. This is not one of those cases. The teacher admitted the implications of her words and apologized for them.
Click to expand...

And maybe the student can learn to stay on task as well?
 
Tuatara said:
Blame the victim. Do you do this for all racist remarks?
Click to expand...

Actually, they are both equally blamable in this instance.

But whatever helps you feel more morally sound, have a ball with it.
 
Oborosen said:
Actually, they are both equally blamable in this instance.

But whatever helps you feel more morally sound, have a ball with it.
Click to expand...

You're talking about a thirteen-year-old child acting up at school compared to a professional educator in her 40s (at least) "joking" about mob lynching to a black student. Yes, of course, students should behave, but blame is not shared equally in this case.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
You're talking about a thirteen-year-old child acting up at school compared to a professional educator in her 40s (at least) "joking" about mob lynching to a black student. Yes, of course, students should behave, but blame is not shared equally in this case.
Click to expand...

Should I retract my statement? Seeing as said kid, will not remain a kid forever and should know that when they get to class. They should be focused on the task at hand, instead of horsing around.

Teachers had more of a spine back in the day and schools didn't coddle students as much as they do now.
 
Oborosen said:
Actually, they are both equally blamable in this instance.

But whatever helps you feel more morally sound, have a ball with it.
Click to expand...
Children misbehave every day in every school. Do you feel that gives the right for their teachers to throw out bigoted or racists comments towards them.


Of course you do.

I bet you blame rape victims also.
 
Tuatara said:
Yes it does, and the fact that she couldn't see that the comment was racist shows that her mindset is very racist.

She had a second chance. She blew it.

Why all the Nazi references?

No a racist bigot is in control of the US because a lot of racist bigots voted for him.
Click to expand...

And there we have it. Another Trump hater. That's where all your righteous indignation stems from. get over it, Trump won.
 
Waddy said:
And there we have it. Another Trump hater. That's where all your righteous indignation stems from. get over it, Trump won.
Click to expand...

This has become more than just a trend, it's become a rabid obsession for many. While I find it fascinating, I also find it very sad and indicative of a "lemming" mindset.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom