Trump tweets DACA 'probably dead' - CNN today

Democrats, Make a Deal With Trump to Protect Dreamers
Will Wilkinson, NY Times

upsideguy said:

....or, if you want the truth, DACA is either amnesty or bigotry, depending on whether you are for or against....

Sorry, but making complex issues too simple does not do justice to the truth nor does it deliver justice to the people affected.

You do realize that most of the people affected by DACA have nothing to do with the decision to be in this country and most have no connection to any other country than the United States. There is a real human plight beneath the issue we call "DACA" Show some compassion to your fellow man. You are your brother's keeper.

https://undocu.berkeley.edu/legal-support-overview/what-is-daca/

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Actually no, I'm not my brother's keeper. And these people on DACA have had decades to use the inside track they've been given in order to gain legal citizenship, but they hate this country and everything it stands for so they'd rather just ignore the law.

upsideguy said:

....or, if you want the truth, DACA is either amnesty or bigotry, depending on whether you are for or against....

Sorry, but making complex issues too simple does not do justice to the truth nor does it deliver justice to the people affected.

You do realize that most of the people affected by DACA have nothing to do with the decision to be in this country and most have no connection to any other country than the United States. There is a real human plight beneath the issue we call "DACA" Show some compassion to your fellow man. You are your brother's keeper.

https://undocu.berkeley.edu/legal-support-overview/what-is-daca/

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How, exactly, did that DACA "human plight" change on the statutory "must have entered as a minor by" date of 6/15/07? My main objection to the DACA concept is that it is entirely arbitrary and virtually guarantees endless future rounds of amnesty in the name of "fairness" or "compassion". In other words, how does treating a 15 year old who entered illegally on 6/14/07 differently than an 8 year old who entered illegally on 6/16/07 make any sense at all?

upsideguy said:

Rather odd post on your part. It seems you reacted emotionally without ever reading or considering my post. If you note (which you did not) I offered a cite that had a cold, objective definition of the people affected by DACA, that was extracted direct from the law. It had no emotion.

The other part of my argument was to show the poster this is a policy that affects people (and families). I was expanding the thought horizons here to separate this from the normal problem of illegal immigration: the people affected made no decision to be here alnd have no place to go. Now, that is a fact. If it seems like an emotional appeal, then perhaps that is your conscience talking (maybe you should listen), not me. The reference to your "brother's keeper" is a commandment from God.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Loving-Foreigners

I don't consider invoking what God commanded us to do as 'emotional'.

The post I responded to wanted to call it "amnesty". That is a statement of ignorance of the issue as the issue is far more complex than that.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/04/donald-trump-what-is-daca-dreamers

Feel free to elaborate on the issue....

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When you use words like "There is a real human plight beneath the issue we call "DACA" Show some compassion to your fellow man. You are your brother's keeper."...that is an emotionalist argument. Especially when using words like "plight" and "compassion".

When you use words like "(and families)" using parentheses in order to stress it...that is an emotionalist argument.

And yes, the post called it amnesty. And you took it one slight step further and called anyone against DACA as being bigoted. As you said, the issue is far more complex than that. Occam's Razor is good to use when warranted, but there is such a thing as too much simplifying. There are lots of people against DACA for more reasons than just bigotry. I am against it for instance and for reasons that have nothing to do with bigotry. Has to do with the last 7 amnesties where The People were promised stricter border control and something be done about the illegal immigrants already here. Each time practically nothing of significance was done. As evidenced by the 11 million illegal immigrants in this country. The only thing that has kept that number from rising was a crappy economy during the last part of the Bush Years and throughout much of Obama's years. With the economy doing better I expect that number will start rising again. Unless something is done now to curb it.

And if you were truly about compassion then you would consider an illegal immigrants working condition that they get into when coming here illegally. Plus you should consider the future "DACA" people. The ones that won't get amnesty because they're parents haven't come here yet, but will eventually. The only way to permanently stop that is to stop, or at least drastically reduce, the amount of illegal immigrants coming here. Giving them amnesty after amnesty only encourages them to come here. And many don't realize what they are getting into until it is too late.

I'm willing to give one more amnesty, provided something is permanently done to stop or drastically reduce illegal immigration. But if that isn't done then the only other choice is to be cold hearted and be against all future amnesties. And be against the current one if they are unwilling to do what needs to be done for the future.

If those are not valid reasons to be against DACA without being called a bigot then there is seriously something wrong with peoples thought processes.

JacksinPA said:

Trump tweets DACA is 'probably Dead" - CNNPolitics

(CNN) President Donald Trump again blamed Democrats on Sunday for the stall in talks over a potential immigration deal as the threat of a government shutdown looms this Friday.

"DACA is probably dead because the Democrats don't really want it, they just want to talk and take desperately needed money away from our Military," Trump tweeted Sunday morning.
In a second tweet a few minutes later, he wrote: "I, as President, want people coming into our Country who are going to help us become strong and great again, people coming in through a system based on MERIT. No more Lotteries! #AMERICA FIRST."
Trump's tweets came just hours after his administration resumed receiving renewal applications for "Dreamers" under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program following a federal court order blocking the administration from ending the program.
The program has protected undocumented immigrants brought to the United States as children from being deported. The administration announced the end of DACA in September, with recipients beginning to lose their status in early March.
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What surprises me about this is that he didn't blame it on Obama.

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The truth about the Dems is finally revealed. That they don’t want DACA goes much deeper and more sinister. They secretly want to get rid of the CRA’s, SS, Medicaid, Medicare and promote right-to-work laws and red-line congressional districts against minorities. The list goes on. The evidence is as clear with what I listed as with DACA. The Dems refuse to compromise and give Trump his $18B Mexico wall to get DACA. You’ll see it all proved out when the refuse to dilute the CRA’s, SS, Medicaid, Medicare in order to keep them. They do and will not promote RTW and red-lining that would keep unions stable and give minorities their own districts to assure their own representation, just like minorities used to have their own special space on the bus, their own water fountains and bathrooms, their own entrances to public buildings, etc. Sad. Very sad.

Barnacle said:

Well, ain't that funny.

An "undocumented immigrant" can get school/college education in the US of A, a job (if they wish to), welfare programs, free medical coverage ... but can't apply for a Visa to obtain a green card ...

And liberals encouraged that ... :lamo

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Ah, you got it. Too bad neither of us get to write the rules.

reinoe said:

Actually no, I'm not my brother's keeper. And these people on DACA have had decades to use the inside track they've been given in order to gain legal citizenship, but they hate this country and everything it stands for so they'd rather just ignore the law.

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Maybe you should stop and think. If they hated the country, they wouldn't stay here.

OldFatGuy said:

Maybe you should stop and think. If they hated the country, they wouldn't stay here.

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Not so, plenty of folks (citizens included) hate (or at least strongly dislike) their jobs (and even living where those jobs are) but see that as a necessary evil because they like getting that (larger?) paycheck. I would imagine that many hate living in an urban ghetto, tiny apartment or rural/suburban trailer park but do so simply because they lack the will and/or economic resources to vote with their feet and leave it. Many immigrants can and do earn far more here than they could in their homelands and send the excess "home" (via remittances) to fund their (extended?) family and even their own retirement.

OldFatGuy said:

Maybe you should stop and think. If they hated the country, they wouldn't stay here.

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It's very easy to hate this country while simultaneously leeching off the benefits this country provides. It's no different than all the home-grown terrorists.

ttwtt78640 said:

Not so, plenty of folks (citizens included) hate (or at least strongly dislike) their jobs (and even living where those jobs are) but see that as a necessary evil because they like getting that (larger?) paycheck. I would imagine that many hate living in an urban ghetto, tiny apartment or rural/suburban trailer park but do so simply because they lack the will and/or economic resources to vote with their feet and leave it. Many immigrants can and do earn far more here than they could in their homelands and send the excess "home" (via remittances) to fund their (extended?) family and even their own retirement.

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None of which means they hate the nation.

OldFatGuy said:

None of which means they hate the nation.

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None of it says that they do not either. Like any group it likely contains a mix of personal opinions. It is hard to convince me that someone that has shown no respect for immigration law for personal financial gain is apt to obey any other laws that they find not to their liking for that same reason.

reinoe said:

It's very easy to hate this country while simultaneously leeching off the benefits this country provides. It's no different than all the home-grown terrorists.

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Yes like how you are in this country and hate it. You and all your other white pointy hood friends.

Praxas said:

Yes like how you are in this country and hate it. You and all your other white pointy hood friends.

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Pointy-hooded friends? I don't hang out with Democrats too often. And I certainly don't support DACA.

reinoe said:

It's very easy to hate this country while simultaneously leeching off the benefits this country provides. It's no different than all the home-grown terrorists.

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Maybe you should try discussing that with those you are excoriating?

Here's a true story you should give some consideration. A very close friend of mine, born and bred here, his father was president of Ecuador for all of 4 days during the late 40's. Overthrown in coup d'etat. Well educated in Europe, fought alongside the allies for the British forces during the war, was forced to leave his nation, fleeing for his life and that of his family, at that time consisting of his wife, two young daughters including one who could not yet walk, and they walked to the US seeking asylum. He was granted asylum, with his family settled in NYC, worked a few different menial jobs while he and his family lived in a one room apartment in someone's basement. They never accepted a dime from welfare, or accepted financial help from any government agencies. They were far too proud to do so. Finally got himself a job as a school janitor, where he worked till retirement. In the meantime his wife gave him two sons, he worked part time jobs in addition to janitorial position, and his wife worked in the garment industry as a seamstress. Eventually, they bought an inexpensive house in a poor part of Jamaica Queens, sent all 4 of his children to Catholic schools, being deeply religious. His oldest daughter married a US Air Force fighter pilot and they had 3 children. His second daughter married a salesman who worked for Dole, the food company. They built a life in Florida, where she developed a management career for DHL, and later UPS. They had two children. His older son died in service of this nation in SE Asia, a loss neither parent ever recovered from, while their younger son worked 25 years for the NYPD, eventually working with me in my core business. We've been friends since we're 12 and 14 years old respectively. Neither of this family's two sons ever learned Spanish. I never heard this man ever complain about his life in America, only thanks from him for the opportunity to give his children and grandchildren a better life. He never complained about not being able to use his education for a better job, never heard him complain about his job. Music brought his son and myself together, we still play guitar together at least once per week after all these years, and usually more often. His family is part of my family, and vice versa. His oldest son is married to my oldest daughter. Nothing dramatic, just life.

Immigrants built this nation. Legal and illegal. No Native American sees you as the progeny of Legal Immigrants. By your own thinking and logic you are one of those immigrant terrorists.

reinoe said:

Pointy-hooded friends? I don't hang out with Democrats too often. And I certainly don't support DACA.

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Yes racist righties don’t support DACA. Thank you for clarifying that.

ttwtt78640 said:

None of it says that they do not either. Like any group it likely contains a mix of personal opinions. It is hard to convince me that someone that has shown no respect for immigration law for personal financial gain is apt to obey any other laws that they find not to their liking for that same reason.

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People don't come here hating the nation. They may not find their dreams fulfilled, that still doesn't mean they hate the nation. You point out "any group it likely contains a mix of personal opinions." No doubt. How many immigrants have you really spoken with, heard of, read about, seen on TV, whatever, lawfully here or not, preach hatred of this nation? Some may not be happy with their own particular circumstances, that still doesn't translate to hating this nation.

On the other hand, I have no doubt, that there are those who do hate this nation, who declare they are enemies of this nation, who are not immigrants here to better their plight in this life, but who have hidden among those immigrants to do this nation harm. Do you throw out the baby with the bathwater?

One of the first things I learned when in the service, and much to my surprise, more than 5% of enlistees were foreign born. Today, 8% of our veterans of foreign wars were foreign born. Do you think any of them were terrorists who hate this nation?

reinoe said:

Actually no, I'm not my brother's keeper. And these people on DACA have had decades to use the inside track they've been given in order to gain legal citizenship, but they hate this country and everything it stands for so they'd rather just ignore the law.

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Sorry. Somehow I assumed you were Christian, in which case you would understand the "bother's keeper" responsibility.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Loving-Foreigners

Apparently you are not Christian, so never mind. Forgive my assumption and may the Lord have mercy on your soul.

The have not been here for "decades" as you must be under 31... which means, at best, they have been here 1 decade as an adult. They did not come here by choice

But, it really appears you simply do not understand the issue. No point in arguing with ignorance. Why not brush up on the issue and get back to us. When you do, kindly tell us why DACA participants would "hate America" given that they either served in our military or high graduates that are studying here.

I think there is much better argument that is Trump supporters that hate America and hate our democracy, but that is another discussion. Do your homework and I will engage in that one as well.

OldFatGuy said:

During contract negotiations the man would recite from memory 10-15 pages at a clip from the riders, argue anything out of the norm. A typical large transaction contract with riders would run 1,500 to 2,000 pages and he had them memorized. He knew the contracts better than the lawyers who wrote them. Who do you think you are fooling?

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and you know this how, because he told you so? lol

ludin said:

Ok thanks for showing that you don't understand how bills work that is all i needed to know.
and before you copy my response and substitute trump in there the fact is you failed to answer the question
and instead deflected.

Trump can't do anything without a bill from congress.

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you apparently misunderstood the point of my post. Trump is loyal to NOBODY, not even the GOP. Trump just wants to sign ANY bill that he thinks makes him look good. If the GOP ever truly pissed Trump off, he'd have no problem abandoning them and becoming close to the Democrats. Trump is all about Trump, and nobody else.

Puigb said:

you apparently misunderstood the point of my post. Trump is loyal to NOBODY, not even the GOP. Trump just wants to sign ANY bill that he thinks makes him look good. If the GOP ever truly pissed Trump off, he'd have no problem abandoning them and becoming close to the Democrats. Trump is all about Trump, and nobody else.

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I don't want a Manchurian president.

j-mac said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/videos/nancy-pelosi-five-white-guys-immigration-daca/

Nah, Pelosi is the leader of the minority....She is absolutely responsible along with those I mentioned, and 'lyin, little' Dick Durbin for blowing up this thing....Look, Democrats USE their constituents for political goals. They're not in it to help anyone but themselves for power.

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Oh its well known just how shameless they can be in the exploitation of their own base.
The only time I see Pelosi on the air, is when she is ranting about the last time Trump exhaled or something like that. Her and Maxine Waters, are both prime examples that their positions should come with applied term limits.

Puigb said:

and you know this how, because he told you so? lol

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No, because I participated in some of those negotiations, representing private hard money soft money investors. Hard money is interim bridge loans at high interest, paid out by either a construction loan or permanent financing, soft money is for soft start up costs, architectural plans, site preparation, attorney costs, initial insurance, permit fees and filing costs, security (my core business) and so on.

Put some nice side money in my pockets for a few weeks of minimal work.

It's not Donald's fault he's smarter than you. Did you thank him this weekend? Everyone is now speaking about conditions in Haiti, and it is a horror. 5% of the population is infected with AIDs, at any given time as many as 40% of the population is suffering from dysentery, shigella or cholera, leading to 25-30k deaths per year. Does that make you LOL? Never mind, you're PC and those who are PC like to cover the truth with their own manure. Speaking the truth is an insult to a do nothing corrupt government like Haiti's. Let MLK jr. express his outrage over the insult. He needs the press. But what has he done for the Haitians? What have you done for the Haitians?

Me, absolutely nothing. I gave up on that country after learning it allowed the despots Papa and Baby Doc, to rule. I don't help those who won't help themselves. Still laughing?

ttwtt78640 said:

None of it says that they do not either. Like any group it likely contains a mix of personal opinions. It is hard to convince me that someone that has shown no respect for immigration law for personal financial gain is apt to obey any other laws that they find not to their liking for that same reason.

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Do some real life research. People here unlawfully do their best to not break laws, not bring attention to themselves, and remain under the radar. Not all, but most. They fear police, they fear being deported. You want to learn the truth about these people, meet them at the churches they frequent. Most are deeply religious.

calamity said:

Racists definitely agree.

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People against illegal immigration definitely agree while anti-American pieces of **** don't want DACA dead.

OldFatGuy said:

Do some real life research. People here unlawfully do their best to not break laws, not bring attention to themselves, and remain under the radar. Not all, but most. They fear police, they fear being deported. You want to learn the truth about these people, meet them at the churches they frequent. Most are deeply religious.

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That (bolded above) is a hoot.