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Trump tweets DACA 'probably dead' - CNN today

Unitedwestand13 said:
And right now democrats need the energy of their base in order to win the midterms.
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But not without sacrificing their right flank. You have to have a united front on this that tries to sacrifice neither. I'd suggest that if the opinion polling isn't there, don't risk it.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
And Donald trump did not inherit his fathers racial bias?
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You don't 'inherit' something like that. Was he exposed to it while growing up, probably. My grandmother grew up in the south and up to when she passed, she was somewhat racist. In the way she was brought up, she still referred to blacks as 'colored people', things like that. I didn't 'inherit' her ways, even though I was exposed to it. Neither did my mother.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Precisely what have you seen in Trump that suggests change...for the better?

Two days ago he maligned Haitians and Africans, he's accused a respected superior court judge of being biased to Trump's case because, although born in California, he's "Mexican"

Race wise Trump is still in the 50's. If there's been change it's he has become more of a bully.
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See, that's the problem. Changed from what? It was his father. And I'm not saying he changed or didn't. I don't know, I'm not friends with the guy. I would imagine only those close to him actually know what's really in his heart.

Please see my other posts for what my point is. I'm getting tired of repeating it. Thanks.
 
Cardinal said:
You're missing the point. It was common, it was wrong, and people knew it was wrong. The fact that it was common excuses nobody in any way. The only thing that the commonness of racism in the seventies demonstrates is that the system was better at shielding racists than it is today.
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And you're missing my point. It's a draw apparently.
 
Fearandloathing said:
In recent days he is throwing our hints he's willing to accept compromise, when he had been steadfast of "no concessions".
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Whether you realize it or not that's a blatant lie.

Trump's been saying all along that he wanted concessions for Dreamers. He made it very clear in an interview with Time last year about what he wanted to do.

President-elect Donald Trump says he is "going to work something out" for undocumented immigrants brought to the U.S. as children.

Trump said in a Time "Person of the Year" interview published Wednesday that he will do something that will "make people happy and proud."

"They got brought here at a very young age, they’ve worked here, they’ve gone to school here. Some were good students. Some have wonderful jobs. And they’re in never-never land because they don’t know what’s going to happen.”
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Trump: 'We?re going to work something out? on 'Dreamers' | TheHill
 
JacksinPA said:
Trump tweets DACA is 'probably Dead" - CNNPolitics

(CNN) President Donald Trump again blamed Democrats on Sunday for the stall in talks over a potential immigration deal as the threat of a government shutdown looms this Friday.

"DACA is probably dead because the Democrats don't really want it, they just want to talk and take desperately needed money away from our Military," Trump tweeted Sunday morning.
In a second tweet a few minutes later, he wrote: "I, as President, want people coming into our Country who are going to help us become strong and great again, people coming in through a system based on MERIT. No more Lotteries! #AMERICA FIRST."
Trump's tweets came just hours after his administration resumed receiving renewal applications for "Dreamers" under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program following a federal court order blocking the administration from ending the program.
The program has protected undocumented immigrants brought to the United States as children from being deported. The administration announced the end of DACA in September, with recipients beginning to lose their status in early March.
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What surprises me about this is that he didn't blame it on Obama.
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You shouldn't be surprised. He's already dealt with Obama. This is on Congress now.
 
Cardinal said:
If he signs off on DACA and doesn't demand an eighty zillion dollar wall then there almost certainly won't be a shutdown. And if there is a shutdown and you're unclear on why that would work to Democrats' advantage then re-read the post you quoted in order to understand why.
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Except that you are looking ftom the perspective that concerns over the fate of DACA kids is the main concern of the public.
It isnt. Shutting down the government when the president has said he will give the Dems what tthey want becsuse the Dems wont give the GOP what they want will benefit the Dems?
Nope.
 
iguanaman said:
Well you just blew your whole argument there. Trump is holding DACA hostage for that very wall that the majority don't want or think it will even help border security.

Trump's Mexico wall would be a gift to the drug cartels (Opinion) - CNN
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the bigger point is you are arguing over something that would take up like .36% of the budget. It's a drop in the bucket. So let's say it's a huge failure. What have we really lost? However if it cuts illegal immigration even in HALF over the next 50 years, the wall will essentially pay for itself. so why not do it? especially when Trump is willing to give the Democrats DACA in exchange? It makes no sense for the democrats not to take that deal.
 
eohrnberger said:
Obama over stepped his legal authority in granting DACA status, he admitted this at the time and the courts have ruled this.
As DACA is illegal, and the administration is charged with enforcing the laws and obeying the courts, that's exactly what was done.

This is a cynical and nasty political trap set by Obama for whomever became the next president to deal with. Had it been Hillary, all DACA enrolled would have been given amnesty and probably citizenship. But that's not how the election worked out.

The Senate and the House write bills, and pass them.
Changing the status of DACA enrollees is going to require an act by congress.
The DACA ball is clearly in their court now.
Congress may not have wanted to deal with it, but now they have to, as the administration did what it had to do as well.

Given that only a few years ago even the Democrats were calling for a border wall, calling for greater border security, it is rather a surprise that now they are against it when an opportunity presents itself to do exactly that.

Seems the Democrats are far more inclined to import anyone and everyone who wants to come, 'the more the merrier' it seems, regardless of the impact on everyday people's security, the assimilation capacity of the immigrants, and regardless of the expense incurred by the tax payers. Given number of nations that are ****holes out there, is it any surprise that the list of people willing to immigrate to the US is endless?

What does a party do when the mainstream electorate that used to vote for them doesn't anymore? You import new voters that will, and tip the balance in your party's favor, to hell with how it impacts the rest of the electorate, the rest of the nation, and the nation's culture.

Democrats, yet again, playing their cynical and nasty politics.

A DACA deal for border wall, increase border security and funding, Everify, and an end to chain immigration and the visa lottery. Its a good deal, and its in the country's and its electorate's best interests for the future.

Democrats, make the deal. Or are you going to, yet again, put party over country?
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Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

Are you giving odds? :mrgreen:
 
polgara said:
Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

Are you giving odds? :mrgreen:
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Greetings, Polgara. :2wave:

Odds? Nope. Not me.
I don't gamble, but I do occasionally use the old saying 'if I were to wager', but that doesn't mean that I would wager with like money.
 
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Fiddytree said:
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/government-shutdown-poll-voters-281172


Shutting Down The Government Over DACA Is A Risky Bet For Democrats | FiveThirtyEight

It may make the Dem base happy, but that doesn't mean it will come without consequences during an election year in which Democrats still do have a lot to worry about with the Senate and do have to be skeptical about having a sure thing for capturing the House.
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"In other words: Support and saliency are not the same thing. Most people want DACA replaced. But for a lot of people, it’s not enough of a priority to shut down the government."

Hmm. Point taken, but I think there's a larger risk that comes with not using the only time Democrats really get to exercise the leverage they have for a principle they claim to stand for. If they abandon the Dreamers because of politics, they'll be guilty of being the political animals that all politicians are painted as. Yes, politicians are political animals. It's in the name. But not standing up for principles has a larger corrosive effect on the morale of their base. Decisions like this is what reminds many voters why they want to stay home in November.

To put it another way, if Democrats hold up government funding over this, I can't deny the possibility that there'll be a short term political fallout for them, but on the flip side, in November voters will know who their Senators are.
 
Blkdirt Farmer said:
Dude, this is the art of the deal here, and like it or not Trump has massive leverage here. Democrats don't have any, and must bend to get what they want. Dreamers are just the pawn in a much larger game. We all know a Government shut down would not bode well for those who cause it, the Democrats.
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Trump has already rejected a bipartisan DACA proposal, breaking his word in the process. If there's a shutdown after that, it won't be Congressional Dems who get the blame.
 
upsideguy said:
How can the Democrats force a shutdown when they are the minority in Congress? Accordingly, I do not see the logic by which they get blamed...
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They may be a minority, but republicans still need their votes to pass something. 60 votes are needed. There's only 52 Republicans.
 
JoeTrumps said:
the bigger point is you are arguing over something that would take up like .36% of the budget. It's a drop in the bucket. So let's say it's a huge failure. What have we really lost? However if it cuts illegal immigration even in HALF over the next 50 years, the wall will essentially pay for itself. so why not do it? especially when Trump is willing to give the Democrats DACA in exchange? It makes no sense for the democrats not to take that deal.
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No studies I have read think "the wall" will bring down illegal entries They will just use other methods. It's a huge waste of money and a stain on our ideals, not to mention an insult to our intelligence as a nation. If you think we will build it just to keep dumbasses happy you are mistaken.

Border-security experts argue that while walls may be an impediment to migrants attempting to cross into a country, their purpose is usually largely symbolic. “The scholars who work on walls and immigration security would say that walls in it of themselves are not very effective at stopping movement across the border,” said Reece Jones, a professor of geography at the University of Hawaii and the author of Violent Borders: Refugees and the Right to Move. “It’s much easier for the public, for voters to understand the concept of border security and of changing the security apparatus at the border through the image of a wall rather than talking about all the other sorts of mechanisms used to restrict movement in border spaces.”
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https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/can-trumps-wall-stop-illegal-immigration/544056/
 
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Kal'Stang said:
They may be a minority, but republicans still need their votes to pass something. 60 votes are needed. There's only 52 Republicans.
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Or to put it this way, the Republicans have to convince only 8 Democrats that the bill has merit. That means they don't get everything they want doesn't it?
 
iguanaman said:
Or to put it this way, the Republicans have to convince only 8 Democrats that the bill has merit. That means they don't get everything they want doesn't it?
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And if they don't get everything that they want then neither do the Democrats. All because 8 of them were toeing the party line instead of doing what was right for both the country and those DACA recipients. Hmm...52 vs 8....who do you think is going to be blamed again?
 
Cardinal said:
"In other words: Support and saliency are not the same thing. Most people want DACA replaced. But for a lot of people, it’s not enough of a priority to shut down the government."

Hmm. Point taken, but I think there's a larger risk that comes with not using the only time Democrats really get to exercise the leverage they have for a principle they claim to stand for. If they abandon the Dreamers because of politics, they'll be guilty of being the political animals that all politicians are painted as. Yes, politicians are political animals. It's in the name. But not standing up for principles has a larger corrosive effect on the morale of their base. Decisions like this is what reminds many voters why they want to stay home in November.

To put it another way, if Democrats hold up government funding over this, I can't deny the possibility that there'll be a short term political fallout for them, but on the flip side, in November voters will know who their Senators are.
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Not to mention the party of the President always suffers worse if the economy is bad. A Govt. shutdown will hurt the economy. This is a easy choice for Dems.
 
Cardinal said:
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2512

Public sentiment will not favor Trump here. If Democrats force a shutdown over DACA, the public will see them as being on the right side of what is widely considered to be a very basic humanitarian issue.
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Lol, wow.

No, the VAST majority of Americans, including many Hispanics, are against DACA. They want secure borders and an end to illegal immigration and chain migration.

You are delusional if you think America supports this, and you'll pay dearly in the midterms on this issue.
 
Erod said:
Lol, wow.

No, the VAST majority of Americans, including many Hispanics, are against DACA.
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The polls don't support that opinion.
 
Superfly said:
If you didn't get free college, it's for two reasons.

1) Your parents made enough money that you didn't need free college, or

2) You didn't bother to go to college in the first place.

It's ridiculously easy to get free college in the US. It's called a Pell Grant. If you want to go to college, and your parents weren't wealthy, you can go.
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Thanks for displaying your ignorance. A pell grant doesn't pay the full cost of tuition. Not even close. Furthermore for a single individual living on their own they MAY get a Pell Grant if their income is 25k or less, but there's no guarantee they'll even get the full amount.
 
Superfly said:
Why? Why would we not want people here who have lived here pretty much their entire lives, who cannot get into trouble at all, who are either in school or in the military? Sounds like the perfect American citizen to me. Somebody who won't get into trouble, who only wants to further their education, or fight for this country.

What's wrong with that? I mean, other than the obvious fact that they are brown.
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The question is not about DACA. Trump would have signed DACA had the democrats agreed to secure our border. The question is why are the democrats against securing our border and legal immigration.
 
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