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Trump dodges on prospect of a Mueller interview

If the President does not finish his first term, I wish there were an optimistic back-up. Just better than Trump doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzies.

Anyone that is put in to finish Trump's term is little more than a placeholder, particularly if they wind up there with a Democratic majority in one or both houses of Congress.
 
Now you're making up things that aren't supported by a single credible news outlet.

In fact every credible news outlet shows the complete opposite: That the FBI was NOT conspiring with the Clinton camp.

Remember how Clinton spent a whole month after the election blaming James Comey for her loss?

You're so far out into delusional land that I don't think I can help you.

People with TDS can't be helped. Which is why you are playing ostrich.
You evidently missed all the articles that show members of the FBI and their twitter messages etc...

The question is what are you going to do when The IG along with other inquires comes out and this whole thing blows up in democrats faces. It has already started to implode now.
 
Just because I'm being bit more cautiously pragmatic here, doesn't mean I'm not in strong personal support of a wave election. I am. But I try not to let my personal ideology get in the way of my analysis. And yeah, I missed Trump's ascendancy, and for all I know I'm now underestimating the debt of the anti-Trump wave too.

But I have a question for you to opine:

"In 2020 for the Presidency should the Dems go full-on Lefty (Bernie-like), or do the go for a more moderate centrist approach?

I used to think moderate was the way to go in the Presidential race, but as of late I'm thinking they should go full-on Bernie.

No, we've spent the last almost half century drifting further and further to the Right.
In the last 25 years we've done little more than move Right to appease Republicans, thinking they might respect us more.
We voted for Republican-Lite Democrats, so called "Third Way" and "Blue Dogs", and favorite pets of the Democratic Leadership Council.
What has it gotten us?

A stunning sweep in
2010
2014
2016

Not to mention record obstructionism and now outright fascism.

Major parties get rebooted ALL the time.
The GOP was retooled and rebooted in 2010, thanks to a nifty little billion dollar loan from the Kochs to Dick Armey's FreedomWorks.

Bernie demonstrated it is possible to crowdsource almost a billion dollars without PAC or corporate money.
But the biggest magilla was when the Democrats switched and embraced CIVIL RIGHTS IN the 1960's.
Fer Chrissakes, they didn't even raise campaign money to do that, they just told the old cracker Jim Crow Dixiecrats to go screw themselves.
Northern, Eastern and Western Dems simply decided that they were better off on the side of full civil rights, PERIOD...they'd seen enough fire hoses, police dogs, church bombings and lynchings.

Retooling the Democratic Party back to its liberal roots is an idea whose time has come and there are currently almost 750 NEW Democratic candidates lining up to RUN in the mid-terms. That is seven times the number of TEA PARTY candidates used in the overturn of the GOP, get the picture?
Go to Our Revolution and support them.

The Democratic Party IS THE LIBERAL PARTY of the American people.
 
I beleive that is his planned strategy, to force a constitutional crisism even to the point of ignoring SCOTUS
Wow. That's quite a distance to go.

I can see Trump pitting the GOP against Mueller; it's already being done by quite a few GOP lawmakers - and with malice!

But having the GOP going against the SCOTUS, strikes me as quite a different matter. Going against Mueller, can be perceived as going against an individual. But going against SCOTUS, is going against the heart of our Republic and the bulwark of democracy. At this point, I don't see it.
 
I was disappointed in Graham. He has no problem with completely contradicting himself with no reconciling information, such as, "I've reconsidered my earlier opinion". I don't understand how he can survive it.
I understand, perfectly.

I'm no fan of the GOP legislators in general, but there were a few I respected, and Lindsey was one of them. There are people with whom I disagree with, but I still respect them because they seem to be principled. But now I see him as an unprincipled sell-out. He's the same crap as the rest of his fellow GOP politicos.
 
Wow. That's quite a distance to go.

I can see Trump pitting the GOP against Mueller; it's already being done by quite a few GOP lawmakers - and with malice!

But having the GOP going against the SCOTUS, strikes me as quite a different matter. Going against Mueller, can be perceived as going against an individual. But going against SCOTUS, is going against the heart of our Republic and the bulwark of democracy. At this point, I don't see it.



There are several precedents: Abraham Lincoln ignored SCOTUS ruling of unconstitutionality of his martial law, and FDR but I forget what for?

Now stop and think about this congress? Do you think they would impeach Trump for ignoring SOCTUS?

If you can HONESTLY say yes to that, then you can rule out a crisis. I can't see it
 
Are you sure 25A action requires 67? I am not so sure.
Unless something's changed since Nixon:

1] VP & majority of the Cabinet send a letter informing Congress the President is incapacitated, and the VP has assumed power.

2] The President can send his own letter to Congress claiming he's fine, and is staying in power.

3] VP & the Cabinet majority can then send another letter disputing the President, re-iterating his incapacitation.

4] Congress then takes-up the matter, requiring 2/3 majority of each chamber to remove the President.
 
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I was referring to the legal and technical process, not the crap-show political one.

If i understand correctly, the definition of a constitutional crisis is extremely broad. The branches of government are supposed to keep one another in check. The failure, for example, to address Russian cyber crimes could be qualifying in itself, depending on how you interpret the constitution.
 
There are several precedents: Abraham Lincoln ignored SCOTUS ruling of unconstitutionality of his martial law, and FDR but I forget what for?

Now stop and think about this congress? Do you think they would impeach Trump for ignoring SOCTUS?

If you can HONESTLY say yes to that, then you can rule out a crisis. I can't see it
You know, this discussion is doing a good job in shattering my beliefs in the intrinsic honesty & integrity of my fellow man ...
 
I understand, perfectly.

I'm no fan of the GOP legislators in general, but there were a few I respected, and Lindsey was one of them. There are people with whom I disagree with, but I still respect them because they seem to be principled. But now I see him as an unprincipled sell-out. He's the same crap as the rest of his fellow GOP politicos.
Graham was one the loudest voices in the House Judiciary calling for articles of impeachment against Clinton, and he cheered on Starr when the probe was moved around and around looking for wrong doing.

Now, he stands by as Trump tramples on the dignity of WH, allowing him to abuse his power as he sees fit. I'm sorry to tell you, but Graham was never any different than the rest of the GOP gang.
 
No, we've spent the last almost half century drifting further and further to the Right.
In the last 25 years we've done little more than move Right to appease Republicans, thinking they might respect us more.
We voted for Republican-Lite Democrats, so called "Third Way" and "Blue Dogs", and favorite pets of the Democratic Leadership Council.
What has it gotten us?

A stunning sweep in
2010
2014
2016

Not to mention record obstructionism and now outright fascism.

Major parties get rebooted ALL the time.
The GOP was retooled and rebooted in 2010, thanks to a nifty little billion dollar loan from the Kochs to Dick Armey's FreedomWorks.

Bernie demonstrated it is possible to crowdsource almost a billion dollars without PAC or corporate money.
But the biggest magilla was when the Democrats switched and embraced CIVIL RIGHTS IN the 1960's.
Fer Chrissakes, they didn't even raise campaign money to do that, they just told the old cracker Jim Crow Dixiecrats to go screw themselves.
Northern, Eastern and Western Dems simply decided that they were better off on the side of full civil rights, PERIOD...they'd seen enough fire hoses, police dogs, church bombings and lynchings.

Retooling the Democratic Party back to its liberal roots is an idea whose time has come and there are currently almost 750 NEW Democratic candidates lining up to RUN in the mid-terms. That is seven times the number of TEA PARTY candidates used in the overturn of the GOP, get the picture?
Go to Our Revolution and support them.

The Democratic Party IS THE LIBERAL PARTY of the American people.
You make some very good arguments, here.

I felt Bernie was a better match-up against Trump than Hillary, and would have given us excellent debates about our basic economic principles. And we know he had the energy behind him.

The thing is, it wasn't just the Dem politicos against him, but that he indeed received less of the Dem rank & file votes. That is a big problem, indicating the rank & file hadn't quite made the turn to him. I also don't think he helped himself by seeming to, at times, capitulate against Clinton. He never went for the jugular.
 
You know, this discussion is doing a good job in shattering my beliefs in the intrinsic honesty & integrity of my fellow man ...



Then don't get involved in politics.

I don't know why, but Americans for me always seem to have this attitude that "their guy" is infallible. In the Bush years, no one would admit he ****ed up, same with Obama....**** I am a liberal and I found a lot wrong with Obama (irony is that I attacked him for being "divisive").
And now Trump, the worst president in history, is being protected by a small army of trumpies...

No one has ever ruled with perfection, in fact I suspect every government has had at least one major **** up, some are just that..years of ****ing up. Pierre Trudeau was the greatest prime minister this country ever had, and the toughest. But he was an arrogant asshole and was as much a womanizer as Clinton if not more so.

Reagan was great for the country, but his whole administration was involved in illegal wars, not to mention some of the screwing around he did in eastern Europe.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. As one historian said to me "every decision is made out of the necessities of the time, they cannot be judged in our time" as right or wrong. I always had to remind myself as a journalist I was writing history, not truth. And there it is wise to remember the great question Pontius Pilot posed to Jesus: "What is truth?"
 
No, we've spent the last almost half century drifting further and further to the Right.
In the last 25 years we've done little more than move Right to appease Republicans, thinking they might respect us more.
We voted for Republican-Lite Democrats, so called "Third Way" and "Blue Dogs", and favorite pets of the Democratic Leadership Council.
What has it gotten us?

A stunning sweep in
2010
2014
2016

Not to mention record obstructionism and now outright fascism.

Major parties get rebooted ALL the time.
The GOP was retooled and rebooted in 2010, thanks to a nifty little billion dollar loan from the Kochs to Dick Armey's FreedomWorks.

Bernie demonstrated it is possible to crowdsource almost a billion dollars without PAC or corporate money.
But the biggest magilla was when the Democrats switched and embraced CIVIL RIGHTS IN the 1960's.
Fer Chrissakes, they didn't even raise campaign money to do that, they just told the old cracker Jim Crow Dixiecrats to go screw themselves.
Northern, Eastern and Western Dems simply decided that they were better off on the side of full civil rights, PERIOD...they'd seen enough fire hoses, police dogs, church bombings and lynchings.

Retooling the Democratic Party back to its liberal roots is an idea whose time has come and there are currently almost 750 NEW Democratic candidates lining up to RUN in the mid-terms. That is seven times the number of TEA PARTY candidates used in the overturn of the GOP, get the picture?
Go to Our Revolution and support them.

The Democratic Party IS THE LIBERAL PARTY of the American people.
The key to those sweeps was FOX and right-wing media in many cases. They played a major part in the GOP's rebirth, with wall to wall disinformation designed to scare the GOP base into voting against Democrats. The GOP simply took advantage of the mediums to broadcast their fear campaign, and it paid off.

Fear-mongering is a tried and true tactic in politics, when will the Democrats learn this? The GOP uses scare tactics in their campaigning, and god damn it works. Conservatives are passionate about their politics because they have been told to fear the opposition, which gets people off their asses and to the voting booth -- like it or not.

Democrats will have to tap into the fears of their own base, making clear what will happen if the opposition succeeds. People don't care for baby kissing politician anymore. No, they want some guy that gets out there and says "Hey, you want that crazy mother****er to win? NO? Then vote for me god damn it." making clear that NOT being the other guy is their strongest trait.

It's how Trump won.
 
Then don't get involved in politics.

I don't know why, but Americans for me always seem to have this attitude that "their guy" is infallible. In the Bush years, no one would admit he ****ed up, same with Obama....**** I am a liberal and I found a lot wrong with Obama (irony is that I attacked him for being "divisive").
And now Trump, the worst president in history, is being protected by a small army of trumpies...

No one has ever ruled with perfection, in fact I suspect every government has had at least one major **** up, some are just that..years of ****ing up. Pierre Trudeau was the greatest prime minister this country ever had, and the toughest. But he was an arrogant asshole and was as much a womanizer as Clinton if not more so.

Reagan was great for the country, but his whole administration was involved in illegal wars, not to mention some of the screwing around he did in eastern Europe.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. As one historian said to me "every decision is made out of the necessities of the time, they cannot be judged in our time" as right or wrong. I always had to remind myself as a journalist I was writing history, not truth. And there it is wise to remember the great question Pontius Pilot posed to Jesus: "What is truth?"
That's one helluva' great paragraph.

But no, it's not that "our guy is infallible". It's that most of us, I would hope, have an intrinsic goodness, sense of justice, and ethical compass, even if it's buried deep-away somewhere.

I've made my mistakes and done plenty of wrong in my life, but when I'm faced with those huge & important life's decisions, in the end I usually let my moral compass guide me. Not just because it may be the right thing to do, but because I have to live with myself, and I can't live with myself or be at peace with myself - if I've given away my soul. It's all I've really got.

So I would find it very foreign, to make a choice to purposely **** over huge parts of humanity. I think most of us if we dig deep-down inside, and are honest with ourselves, will feel the same.
 
The key to those sweeps was FOX and right-wing media in many cases. They played a major part in the GOP's rebirth, with wall to wall disinformation designed to scare the GOP base into voting against Democrats. The GOP simply took advantage of the mediums to broadcast their fear campaign, and it paid off.

Fear-mongering is a tried and true tactic in politics, when will the Democrats learn this? The GOP uses scare tactics in their campaigning, and god damn it works. Conservatives are passionate about their politics because they have been told to fear the opposition, which gets people off their asses and to the voting booth -- like it or not.

Democrats will have to tap into the fears of their own base, making clear what will happen if the opposition succeeds. People don't care for baby kissing politician anymore. No, they want some guy that gets out there and says "Hey, you want that crazy mother****er to win? NO? Then vote for me god damn it." making clear that NOT being the other guy is their strongest trait.

It's how Trump won.
In the GOP's case, this phenomenon started with Right-Wing Christian-Conservative talk-radio in the 80's. Under Reagan the Fairness Doctrine was rolled-back, giving rise to the Rush Limbaughs of the world. The Telecommunication Act of 1996 further allowed easier national prominence to the talk-radio hosts. Then Roger Ailes took over Fox, and applied the talk-radio techniques to television. And viola'! Fox News as we know it!
 
In the GOP's case, this phenomenon started with Right-Wing Christian-Conservative talk-radio in the 80's. Under Reagan the Fairness Doctrine was rolled-back, giving rise to the Rush Limbaughs of the world. The Telecommunication Act of 1996 further allowed easier national prominence to the talk-radio hosts. Then Roger Ailes took over Fox, and applied the talk-radio techniques to television. And viola'! Fox News as we know it!
Trump-Monster-1024.jpg
 
That's one helluva' great paragraph.

But no, it's not that "our guy is infallible". It's that most of us, I would hope, have an intrinsic goodness, sense of justice, and ethical compass, even if it's buried deep-away somewhere.

I've made my mistakes and done plenty of wrong in my life, but when I'm faced with those huge & important life's decisions, in the end I usually let my moral compass guide me. Not just because it may be the right thing to do, but because I have to live with myself, and I can't live with myself or be at peace with myself - if I've given away my soul. It's all I've really got.

So I would find it very foreign, to make a choice to purposely **** over huge parts of humanity. I think most of us if we dig deep-down inside, and are honest with ourselves, will feel the same.



In the recovery from addictions we inventory our deeds of the past and 'reveal to God, ourselves and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs" May sound simple but its the widow maker of the 12 steps.

I can honestly say that like you I have met life challenges the best I could, armed with what I had. I can say also like you in the end, I erred on the side of "the right thing to do." Which often causes damage to those in the cycle and I think of staffing decisions that had to be made, losing the argument not to let the person go so close to Christmas, needing to fire a friend.

However, the closer you get to the top, the more those decisions become acute and affect others. And in political leadership those decisions get very hard, jobs are lost, lives changed, sometimes ended.

And sometimes those decisions **** over huge sections of the populace. I cannot, say, judge a president of an African country who allows his country's rivers and lakes to become polluted by big industry because he is faced with 90% unemployment and 45% homelessness.

However, when it is for personal or domestic political reasons, the question of criminal activity comes in. Who should be judged when Trump says he's moving the Israeli embassy causing widespread rioting and death? It was a great move to his "base" but was it necessary, was it honest, was it kind?

War raises even more horrible questions. George Bush was a god-like hero in the invasion of Afghanistan, but a "incompetent liar" for invading Iraq. What will history say? Will it largely ignore certain aspects like it has for Abe Lincoln defying SCOTUS, or damn him for trying to rise in the poles through an unnecessary war? You see, what was "truth" one decade becomes a horrible lie in the next, all based on available information and changing attitudes.

Where I judge is in the motive. Abe Lincoln was fighting a civil war, his life and the lives of his cabinet were under threat, and rioting was not far off. From this great distance I can only say I probably would have done the same.

Then we have HST and the dropping of not one, but two atomic bombs over Japan. It was questioned at the time, and even more so today. People note the polls were hugely against old Harry the hat maker, the people wanted the war ended. People were already starting to rebuild in Europe, American boys were coming home in great numbers. What pressures was he under and did the polls make a difference?

You see how the traditional thinking can change in a heart beat, but note in every one of them A "truth" has emerged; we know now there were alternatives to dropping that bomb, just as we quickly came to know "Mission Accomplished" was propaganda we will, as a people eventually learn an "unbiased truth".

This is where Trump is doomed. His denials today are thinner than a free dinner, expect history to be more judgemental and see him for the self seeking asshole he is.
 
Unless something's changed since Nixon:

1] VP & majority of the Cabinet send a letter informing Congress the President is incapacitated, and the VP has assumed power.

2] The President can send his own letter to Congress claiming he's fine, and is staying in power.

3] VP & the Cabinet majority can then send another letter disputing the President, re-iterating his incapacitation.

4] Congress then takes-up the matter, requiring 2/3 majority of each chamber to remove the President.

Yeesh, you're right :(
 
You make some very good arguments, here.

I felt Bernie was a better match-up against Trump than Hillary, and would have given us excellent debates about our basic economic principles. And we know he had the energy behind him.

The thing is, it wasn't just the Dem politicos against him, but that he indeed received less of the Dem rank & file votes. That is a big problem, indicating the rank & file hadn't quite made the turn to him. I also don't think he helped himself by seeming to, at times, capitulate against Clinton. He never went for the jugular.

You've already heard me prattle endlessly about the notion that Bernie damaged his own chances by refusing to join the Democratic party. What the Dems did was despicable but it still falls under the heading "antibody resistance to outside infectious agents".

I would have loved a Bernie presidency but in reality it really only would have been feasible as a Democratic Party presidency. Presidents NEED a party base.
 
Yeesh, you're right :(
Yeah, in my high school civics class it was generally stressed that it takes 67 Senators to remove a President. The Framers believed it should not be too easy to over-turn the will of The People.
 
You've already heard me prattle endlessly about the notion that Bernie damaged his own chances by refusing to join the Democratic party. What the Dems did was despicable but it still falls under the heading "antibody resistance to outside infectious agents".

I would have loved a Bernie presidency but in reality it really only would have been feasible as a Democratic Party presidency. Presidents NEED a party base.
CF (Wikipedia) Duverger's Law
 
You're right, that's funny because Mueller's investigation is a joke.

Then keep laughing, it will dawn on you one day that the joke is on you.
 
Then keep laughing, it will dawn on you one day that the joke is on you.

The longer this investigation lasts and the more tenticles it magically sprouts, the more rediculous the Libbos look.

Everyone you disagree with is a racist and a nazi, and now when a darkhorse Republican gets elected you want him investigated until something is found.

Y'all are going to have a hard time winning elections like that.
 
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