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New Slaughtering Rules Pit Dutch Religious Freedoms Against Animal Rights

Blue_State said:
Where do animal rights come from? Is there some document?
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I can't tell whether you're saying human rights come from the buy-bull or the constitution. Either way, you're wrong.
 
D_NATURED said:
I can't tell whether you're saying human rights come from the buy-bull or the constitution. Either way, you're wrong.
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They come from society and are often codified in various documents. That's about as close as you can get.
 
Cephus said:
That's why there are more than 42,000 distinct sects of Christianity and 72 sects of Islam. Because nobody can actually agree what their silly books say in black and white. Unfortunately, the more religious you are, the less likely you are to think outside of the box. There are plenty of Christians and Muslims who play along with being religious from a social standpoint, but don't really pay much attention to what they're supposed to believe.
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And you are in your own little box of anger, hate and intolerance.
 
jmotivator said:
I never said they were inseparable. I am not the one separating them, atheists are. All the laws of the old Testament still exist, but in the New Testament Jesus taught his followers that it was their job to police the laws as we are all sinners and as such shouldn't pass judgment on one another, let alone mete out punishment.

By only sighting the law as it was spelled out in the old testament you are missing the most integral part of what it is to be a Christian: Jesus. The New Testament profoundly changes the relationship between God and humanity and how scriptural law is to be applied. Namely, it isn't our job anymore to apply the law to others, it is only our job to apply the law to ourselves.
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maybe the GOP needs to heed that & stop with the bigoted GOP policies that are construed as 'gay hate' ............. just a thought ...........
 
D_NATURED said:
I can't tell whether you're saying human rights come from the buy-bull or the constitution. Either way, you're wrong.
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Clearly you didn't read the document he presented as it had nothing to do with animal rights. Can you tell me what bestows animal rights?
 
MrWonka said:
Animals have rights too.
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Animals don't have rights.

But even if they did, it would be absolutely immoral for human societies to place those rights above the rights of their human members.
 
jmotivator said:
Kosher and Halal slaughter is a clean and safe method of butchery that isn't as subject to contamination as mass produced modern meat packing. Are you opposed to it because you think animals are people, or something?
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I do not know that at all, our slaughter houses are pretty clean and safe from contamination.
 
apdst said:
Then you aren't in a position to make demands on what people should do. There's nothing wring with s9meone excercising their natural rights.
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Except the only rights that exist are those that come from human laws. People only have the rights the law gives.
 
Peter King said:
Except the only rights that exist are those that come from human laws. People only have the rights the law gives.
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Freedom and liberty are natural rights.
 
JANFU said:
Well all developed Democracies have Freedom of Religion. And Jews have been practicing their Religion for thousands of years. Christianity & Islam are new on the block.
So they are not creating harm, so no harm, no fowl.
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Actually society has decided that it does create harm.
 
apdst said:
Freedom and liberty are natural rights.
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Nope, all laws come from actual laws. Natural rights do not exist unless they are allowed to be legal in a countries laws.
 
apdst said:
That's it? I mean, they're going to die either way.
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Sure, but in the most animal friendly way possible, that is the prize we have to pay for eating meat.
 
Peter King said:
Nope, all laws come from actual laws. Natural rights do not exist unless they are allowed to be legal in a countries laws.
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Freedom and liberty are natural laws. All living things naturally seek freedom.

You put a rabbit in a cage. What's the number one thought on his mind? Being free, of course. Leave the cage door open and he will attempt to escape. Every species exhibits that natural instinct.

Government didn't invent the notion of life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. It was government that invented the first laws to oppress that freedom.
 
Peter King said:
Sure, but in the most animal friendly way possible, that is the prize we have to pay for eating meat.
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You're free not to eat those animals. The kill method has zero effect upon you.
 
apdst said:
Freedom and liberty are natural laws. All living things naturally seek freedom.

You put a rabbit in a cage. What's the number one thought on his mind? Being free, of course. Leave the cage door open and he will attempt to escape. Every species exhibits that natural instinct.

Government didn't invent the notion of life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. It was government that invented the first laws to oppress that freedom.
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Yeah, but we are talking about right people get through laws and rules, those rights are the only one people can expect to be getting.

Being free is limited by what the lawgiver allows. Government however does make the laws and establishes the rights people have in a democracy/country.
 
The cruelty inherent in meat production doesn't come from the slaughter method. Opening an animals throat with a sharp knife is as close to painless as you can get. It's how they're treated prior to slaughter that is the true cruelty.

 
apdst said:
You're free not to eat those animals. The kill method has zero effect upon you.
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Well you are wrong, it does have an effect on me as a customer. I want meat that is killed humanely as possible and is kept in decent conditions.
 
spud_meister said:
The cruelty inherent in meat production doesn't come from the slaughter method. Opening an animals throat with a sharp knife is as close to painless as you can get. It's how they're treated prior to slaughter that is the true cruelty.

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And that too has to be very strictly regulated. In the past we often bought chicken meat from chickens purely created for fast growth in as little days as possible and as cheaply as possible. Consumers have made that chicken banned from super markets and now only chickens from a slower growing chicked breed is being sold in supermarkets.
 
Cephus said:
Because there's no point. The whole point ought to be about improving society overall, ...
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How will these laws 'improve society as a whole'?

The idea that "I believe in an imaginary man in the sky, therefore I shouldn't have to follow the same laws as everyone else" is absurd.
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Who has made that argument?

From my reading of the thread, and my own take on the issue, the argument is that these laws shouldn't exist in the first place, not that they are okay to exist provided they leave allowance for religious exceptions.
 
Peter King said:
Well you are wrong, it does have an effect on me as a customer. I want meat that is killed humanely as possible and is kept in decent conditions.
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Simple...don't buy it. No one is forcing you buy kosher, or halal food. That goes back to that natural freedom thing. Get back with me when the government forces you to buy kosher and halal meat. The, I got your back, bro.
 
Peter King said:
Yeah, but we are talking about right people get through laws and rules, those rights are the only one people can expect to be getting.

Being free is limited by what the lawgiver allows. Government however does make the laws and establishes the rights people have in a democracy/country.
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Those rights are extensions of "life, liberty and the persuit of happiness".
 
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