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Trump withholding millions in aid to Pakistan, as he accuses country of giving 'safe haven' to terro

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Pakistani authorities have suddenly rushed to seize control over the assets and fund-raising organizations of Hafiz Saeed, a radical preacher responsible for masterminding the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attack which killed 166 people, including 6 Americans.

Pakistan seizes control of Hafiz Saeed's assets | India News | Al Jazeera

Trump's tweet has definitely rattled them. Previously they were refusing to arrest this thug, who had been designated by the UN as a Global Terrorist.
 
Serenity said:
Not sure where you are headed with that considering it is your only post in the thread.

Do you actually have anything to contribute to the topic?
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My contribution would be keeping it on topic. The question still stands.
 
Lerxst said:
Yeah, we aren't going to agree on that. Historical people? No more so than the Muslims.
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Just to clarify, Muslims didn't arrive in the area until 638 CE, which was about leventy-seven years after the Jewish presence. Also, The Muslims were an invading force, not immigrants. Whenever I hear people suggest the Jews should 'give the land back to the original owners', I like to ask them which First Nations tribe they're planning on turning the deed to their house over to.
 
Further to reasons to disown Pakistan, I wish Trump would have also blasted it for its policy of religious apartheid. There are Christians in prison for life for the "crime" of insulting Islam. Imagine the lefty outrage if Israel were to imprison Muslims for insulting Judaism.
 
stevecanuck said:
Just to clarify, Muslims didn't arrive in the area until 638 CE, which was about leventy-seven years after the Jewish presence. Also, The Muslims were an invading force, not immigrants. Whenever I hear people suggest the Jews should 'give the land back to the original owners', I like to ask them which First Nations tribe they're planning on turning the deed to their house over to.
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The entire premise that people who had never stepped foot in Palestine, or anywhere the middle east, should have some kind of right of property ownership over people who live on that land currently is ridiculous. If there were any merit to this concept everyone who could trace their descent back to anywhere other than the original Native Americans should have their property seized, evicted from their homes, and placed in areas of the U.S. that say the Chinese and Russians approve of.

It is preposterous to say "oh okay, your a Jew who grew up on Long Island, here, you deserve this plot of land over here in the Middle East. I know you've never been there, and that there is already a family living on that land, and they've lived there for four generation, but **** them, you're a Jew, you deserve their land because people of your ethnicity and religion lived there hundreds, if not thousands of years ago."
 
Lerxst said:
The entire premise that people who had never stepped foot in Palestine, or anywhere the middle east, should have some kind of right of property ownership over people who live on that land currently is ridiculous. If there were any merit to this concept everyone who could trace their descent back to anywhere other than the original Native Americans should have their property seized, evicted from their homes, and placed in areas of the U.S. that say the Chinese and Russians approve of.

It is preposterous to say "oh okay, your a Jew who grew up on Long Island, here, you deserve this plot of land over here in the Middle East. I know you've never been there, and that there is already a family living on that land, and they've lived there for four generation, but **** them, you're a Jew, you deserve their land because people of your ethnicity and religion lived there hundreds, if not thousands of years ago."
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I was referring to your use of the word "historical", hence my reply.
 
OldFatGuy said:
You do understand that both Pakistan and China share antagonistic relationships with India, and all three are on war footing with each other? The Chinese and the Pakistanis don't trust each other. The Chinese have accused Pakistan of aiding and abetting (read that as arming) islamic separatists in China, and Pakistan is still accusing China of having designs on territory with Pakistan's border with China. Pakistan still holds animosity for China's backing (again read that as arming) Bangladesh during that separatist war.

A month or so ago, China and India announced mutual industrial cooperative agreements, with the hope of diminishing animosity between the two nations. Both have deployed additional troops on their mutual borders since 2009, but more so in 2015. Both have claimed a regional war is inevitable because of the other. China has its Black Lightening armored divisions posted to the Pakistani border. China prevented the deployment of Pakistani troops to Burma, Myanmar, when the Buddhists started slaughtering muslims there last summer. An action between "friends?"

Yeah, you got that right.

BTW, China has sent a delegate to Israel for exploring formal ties between the two nations. Something about those gas and oil fields discovered off the coast of Israel, larger than those originally of the Saudi Peninsula. Both Israel and China have employed the SinCo. Corp., a Saudi oil exploitation planning company, actually composed of American oil exploration and drilling tech companies backed by Saudi investment. China has discovered possible large oil fields in sparsely populated SW China.
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No surprise old "animosities" can be quickly patched up when Billions of Military aid is at stake...trump recent comments were stupid and reckless regarding Pakistan.....China would love to step in at a moment's notice
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1598851/1-china-backs-pakistan-trump-barb/
 
Saladin4 said:
No surprise old "animosities" can be quickly patched up when Billions of Military aid is at stake...trump recent comments were stupid and reckless regarding Pakistan.....China would love to step in at a moment's notice
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1598851/1-china-backs-pakistan-trump-barb/
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sanman said:
China has already stepped into Pakistan, which is why Trump is finally cutting them off for good.
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Good! F&%K the Pakistanis and the Chinese.
China would be screwed if they couldn't dump their cheap-assed wares on the US markets, and as for Pakistan...they'll eventually show anyone who does business with them, that they are a bunch of back-stabbing, upidy morons.
 
Serenity said:
No, it's not. Discussions such as this should be held directly with the relevant parties involved, not announced via twitter.

Consider also that the the administration first said in August (which WAS reported accurately through multiple media outlets) that it was temporarily withholding the $255 million, which was part of a $1.1 billion aid package authorized in 2016 by Congress. An announcement was made that the money was put on hold until Pakistan agreed to do more to combat terrorist networks.

There is simply no need at all for the President to be utilising twitter in such a way.
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Well, he's not going to change no matter how much his detractors wish he would...

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Saladin4 said:
trump looks like an idiot spitting out his stupid tweets insulting other nations....China and Russia stand ready to take the place of America at a moments notice if trump with holds aid
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Dream on....you wish will not be granted.

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Lerxst said:
Yeah, we aren't going to agree on that. Historical people? No more so than the Muslims. The fact is, their massive migration from European countries after World War 2, where the migrant Jews lived, ultimately resulted in massive numbers of Palestinians, who already lived there, being displaced and eventually placed into what amounts as two large internment camps (Gaza Strip and the West Bank).

It's no more the "Jewish" land than it is the "Islamic" land. The U.S. should have never been a party to that. And what do you mean be "so-called Palestinians?" They are actual Palestinians. This is an established fact. The relationship we have had with Israel has been a cancer to our Middle East relations for decades. You obviously don't feel the same so rather than digress into a morass of potential forum violations regarding the discussion of the Palestine-Israel problem, I will respectfully disengage on the topic in this thread. I am sure we will find other opportunities to debate our respective positions on this subject. Have a good one.
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You're talking WWII, and I am saying 3000 years....yeah migrant alright....if any are migrant it is the Palestinians. After Palistine is a made up term anyway.

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j-mac said:
You're talking WWII, and I am saying 3000 years....yeah migrant alright....if any are migrant it is the Palestinians. After Palistine is a made up term anyway.

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Nobody alive in World War 2 was alive 3000 years ago. They had no right to ownership of that land. The Palestinians lived there for generations and were displaced by migrating Jews. Don't be daft, the Jews settling the land were 100% migrants, by the very definition of the word.
 
j-mac said:
You're talking WWII, and I am saying 3000 years....yeah migrant alright....if any are migrant it is the Palestinians. After Palistine is a made up term anyway.

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As other cons have pointed out in regards to the American Indians, prior ownership does not give the right to future ownership. If you actually believed what you say, you would be wanting to give the US back to the Indians. So please spare us the 3,000 year old bull****, it smells like religious bull**** that you guys like to spout anyway.
 
j-mac said:
You're talking WWII, and I am saying 3000 years....yeah migrant alright....if any are migrant it is the Palestinians. After Palistine is a made up term anyway.

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South Carolina History Timeline: South Carolina Important Dates

From around 10,000 BC to about 1521 AD South Carolina was inhabited by Native Americans. If anyone is migrant to that area it's European settlers. Would you give up your land ownership back?
 
americanwoman said:
South Carolina History Timeline: South Carolina Important Dates

From around 10,000 BC to about 1521 AD South Carolina was inhabited by Native Americans. If anyone is migrant to that area it's European settlers. Would you give up your land ownership back?
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Hell no he wouldn't. But those dirty brown skinned Islams are human trash, and we gotta do something with the Jews, so lets just give them someone else's land, far away from here. Kind of like white Europeans did to Native Americans. Hmmmm...I'm seeing a pattern.

I have a feeling he only reads Pro-Israel material and ignore the voluminous amounts of information that addresses the Arab-Israel problem objectively. Kinda spoils his worldview, so there is no need consider it as far as he cares.
 
Buzz62 said:
Good! F&%K the Pakistanis and the Chinese.
China would be screwed if they couldn't dump their cheap-assed wares on the US markets, and as for Pakistan...they'll eventually show anyone who does business with them, that they are a bunch of back-stabbing, upidy morons.
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LOL...You old grumpy conservatives seem to hate the world.....
 
Lerxst said:
The entire premise that people who had never stepped foot in Palestine, or anywhere the middle east, should have some kind of right of property ownership over people who live on that land currently is ridiculous.
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Prior to the '48/49 war, all lands lived on by Jews were either inherited or purchased. Not once after the war, were immigrants, Jewish or otherwise, gifted land, whether already owned or abandoned by those who fled and didn't return, with one exception, a small parcel in Tel Aviv was gifted to a Quaker group from Long Island for a health clinic that still serves all comers at no cost.

Every so called refugee had the option to stay and build a better country. Those who fled were their own worst enemies, until patronizing fools came along to encourage their self appointed entitlements.
 
Saladin4 said:
No surprise old "animosities" can be quickly patched up when Billions of Military aid is at stake...trump recent comments were stupid and reckless regarding Pakistan.....China would love to step in at a moment's notice
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1598851/1-china-backs-pakistan-trump-barb/
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The Chinese like to label themselves as "The Jews of Asia," as both, per the Chinese, "respect education and meritorious achievement." China usually abstains on anti-Israel voting at the UN. Usually, not always, when other interests of the Chinese intercede.

Trump's recent Pakistan statements were long overdue. Crude, but overdue. Pakistan sold nuclear weapons data to North Korea, armed numerous terrorists and insurgents throughout the muslim world, as well as regimes willing to pay the freight. With friends like Pakistan, whose rulers have increased their personal wealth from American largess, we don't need enemies.

How easy to forget the thrusts of Trump's presidential campaign to smash the status quo. He has been very successfully been accomplishing his goals in that direction. This is merely another example, and hopefully we'll see more like it during this new year. American money is required to fix America's own problems. I don't see any Pakistanis offering money to build the freight rail tunnel under the Hudson, nor contributing to the repair of the existing 2 tunnels, yet those tunnels carry 47% of the US GDP annually. Trump has made those tunnels his per project. No third tunnel was in the making until he was inaugurated. The existing tunnels are both more than 100 years old, suffering neglected maintenance,

I'd rather see American money used to serve American needs, than paid as baksheesh to foreign enemies with smiles of friendship, and at the ready to stab us in the back. I hope we hear more of Trump's rudeness and crudeness.

Today, Pakistan's government is holding more emergency meetings. And in Iran, the mullahs have gathered their faithful to call out foreign enemies like the US, an easy scapegoat, for the problems they created that have brought out, frightening to them, young protestors no longer willing to tolerate their crap. There is no reason for the US to get involved in Iran's inner struggles. Let the Iranian people overthrow their own despots, without US involvement and later blame for interfering in a sovereign nation's affairs. :lamo
 
sanman said:
China has already stepped into Pakistan, which is why Trump is finally cutting them off for good.
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Nonsense. Ridiculous. Unfounded.
 
americanwoman said:
South Carolina History Timeline: South Carolina Important Dates

From around 10,000 BC to about 1521 AD South Carolina was inhabited by Native Americans. If anyone is migrant to that area it's European settlers. Would you give up your land ownership back?
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Your history citation just conveniently glosses over the fact that for the entire existence of the tribal nations they were killing each other, conquering lands, taking slaves, engaged in cannibalism, and all manner of period appropriate behaviors. Nope...your history citations says for thousands of years there were Indians....and then the Europeans came in and took everything.

How do you think the 5 nations were formed in New York? How do you think the Cherokee emerged as dominant in the east? Or the Crow in the plains? Hell they have unearthed mass graves containing what is exepcted to be entire tribal populations in the 12 and 1300s.

Every land throughout time has been formed by conquest. The historical relevance of who lived somewhere 'then' makes for great reading...but not much else.
 
stevecanuck said:
My understanding (subject to being corrected by those who have spent more time studying the area) is that Jews have been a constant presence there for 3000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel
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You are correct. There has been a Jewish presence there for thousands of years. There was also a very large (around 90%) non-Jewish presence there (mainly Muslim and Christian). Prior to the Balfour Declaration non-Jews constituted the overwhelming majority of the population in Palestine. From the late 1800's to around 1914 approximately 75,000 Jews had migrated to Palestine (mostly from Europe). After the Balfour declaration up to the point when the mandate ended and the Brits moved out, well over 750,000 Jews were allowed to migrate (from all over the world) to Palestine and settle the land.

Those 750,000 had no legal claim to those lands except through the authority of the British government. It resulted in hundreds of thousands of non-Jews being displaced in favor the Jewish immigrants. And to this day, Israeli Jews continue to illegally settle land that does not belong to them. To the point the Israeli government has had to take legal action to stop the settlement in some areas.

Please understand, this isn't me being an anti-semite or anti-zionist, I'm anti-land theft. The U.S. should have never legitimized this action. We would never allow native Americans, who clearly draw a more direct and time relevant connection, to come in and force the ancestors of white Europeans out of their homes so they could "return to their homeland." The thought would considered insane. But we made a very un-American decision to legitimize the Zionist movement to occupy the land known as Palestine and take it from the people already living there. In any other case we would have been outraged, and rightfully so.
 
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