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Man arrested in 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax that led to fatal police shooting

PirateMk1 said:
If he goes away then so should the cops who were involved in killing that man.
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Oh, he's going to "go away." There's virtually no doubt about that. For how long is the only question.

I'm guessing the cop will lose his job -- but, seeing as the entire incident was caused by the swatter, I don't think the cop will do any time. It does seem like a good example to use for future training, however.

It's a miracle more deaths don't happen from these swatting incidents. The victim of one of them thinks they should be charged with "attempted murder" even if no one is injured, because of the potential for something like what happened in Wichita to happen again.

Brian Krebs remembers holding a roll of tape in his hand, about a dozen guns pointed at his head.

Two teenagers had called the police to Krebs’ house in Virginia in what is referred to as a swatting report. Krebs had been using a roll of tape as he worked around the house, and now thinks about how the police could have thought it was a weapon.

“I’ve long said this needs to be attempted murder,” Krebs told The Wichita Eagle on Friday. “Nine times out of 10 nobody gets hurt or nobody gets seriously hurt, but things can go wrong.”

Krebs, a former Washington Post reporter who covers cybersecurity, was a victim of swatting in 2013.
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https://www.policeone.com/officer-s...a-potentially-deadly-crime-thats-very-common/

There's talk of making swatting a federal offense. If that happens, we'll see a lot of stupid little gamers behind bars. I don't see where anyone even died in this following incident:

A 19-year-old in Massachusetts was sentenced to more than 11 years in federal prison in 2009 for what the FBI called a “swatting conspiracy.” In 2016, a 43-year-old man received seven years in federal prison for swatting and resisting arrest. His co-defendant was given five years in federal prison and ordered to pay nearly $80,000 in restitution.
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I bet we seem some stricter laws after this.
 
LowDown said:
Man arrested in 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax that led to fatal police shooting | Fox News

The police were told that the man had killed someone and was threatening to kill others and himself. A completely crazy, violent person, in other words. So when they went there, and the guy failed to keep his hands in the air, they shot him.

He wasn't even the guy who Barriss argued with.

A lot of people are angry with the police, but I don't think that this is a case where they can just go up and knock on the door in a plain uniform. On the other hand, there has to be a better way to do this than shooting someone because he's confused and reaches for his pants. Of course, such reasoned judgments are difficult in the heat of the moment.

As for Barriss, if he is convicted of doing what is alleged I wish upon him the most medieval of punishments. According to Forbes and others, he has done this sort of thing multiple times in the past.
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This is why one should never give out personal information..

Surprise and violence of action is a tool to help make your side have greater chance of remaining unhurt.

Ask questions later seems like its becoming more common these days. That hotel encounter awhile back was brutal.

It is straight up attempted murder if one falsely sends trained armed men to a house with the thought there is a violent armed felon inside.
 
Lutherf said:
There is body cam footage of the actual shooting. It's grainy from across the street but you can see how the cop could have perceived the guy going for a gun.

Police release ?swatting? call, video of man shot to death | The Wichita Eagle

This was just a horrible situation created by a horrible person.
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The "perp" might also have assumed that having shown his hands to have been empty was why the officer then told him to walk forward. If it is a life and death difference then it is certainly worth repeating and emphasizing the importance of keeping your hands raised (or on/above your head) while walking forward. The "perp" may have (fatally) assumed that hands up time was over when it became walk forward time.

It was interesting to hear the 911 operator's (dispatcher's?) questions about the "crime scene" description. From the information given one would expect a single story structure that strongly smelled of gasoline. Asking more questions of this type (color/type of exterior walls and trim), and actually paying attention to the answers given, could limit the effectiveness of these (long distance?) hoax calls.
 
Lutherf said:
I don't know about that. If you drive drunk and bounce a pedestrian off your hood you should be charged with more than just DUI. This is kind of the same thing. The false report lead to a homicide so he's definitely got some culpability there.
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All the idiot did, was to make a report. He made NO other action. He has no culpability as to what the police do after he makes it. That is completely and totally on the police and there are more than a few court decisions backing up the claim that the police are under no obligation to provide service, so, therefore, they are the ones who are culpable for the homicide of the poor bastard that was swatted.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Oh, he's going to "go away." There's virtually no doubt about that. For how long is the only question.

I'm guessing the cop will lose his job -- but, seeing as the entire incident was caused by the swatter, I don't think the cop will do any time. It does seem like a good example to use for future training, however.

It's a miracle more deaths don't happen from these swatting incidents. The victim of one of them thinks they should be charged with "attempted murder" even if no one is injured, because of the potential for something like what happened in Wichita to happen again.


https://www.policeone.com/officer-s...a-potentially-deadly-crime-thats-very-common/

There's talk of making swatting a federal offense. If that happens, we'll see a lot of stupid little gamers behind bars. I don't see where anyone even died in this following incident:



I bet we seem some stricter laws after this.
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We already have laws for making false reports, we don't need more, yet we keep taking the onus off the police for THIER misdeeds. The police need to be held accountable for their actions.
 
LowDown said:
Man arrested in 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax that led to fatal police shooting | Fox News

The police were told that the man had killed someone and was threatening to kill others and himself. A completely crazy, violent person, in other words. So when they went there, and the guy failed to keep his hands in the air, they shot him.

He wasn't even the guy who Barriss argued with.

A lot of people are angry with the police, but I don't think that this is a case where they can just go up and knock on the door in a plain uniform. On the other hand, there has to be a better way to do this than shooting someone because he's confused and reaches for his pants. Of course, such reasoned judgments are difficult in the heat of the moment.

As for Barriss, if he is convicted of doing what is alleged I wish upon him the most medieval of punishments. According to Forbes and others, he has done this sort of thing multiple times in the past.
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We are at a place in time where this just isn't a problem for society any longer. We have accepted this stuff as normal for the US just as we have accepted gun violence as part of the culture. There will be a period of faux hand wringing and then we'll await the next incident, tsk tsk tsk, gee isn't that a shame.
 
Lutherf said:
I don't know about that. If you drive drunk and bounce a pedestrian off your hood you should be charged with more than just DUI. This is kind of the same thing. The false report lead to a homicide so he's definitely got some culpability there.
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The officer firing the fatal shot must have much more than a hoax report of an alleged crime at that address to execute the alleged "perp". As I read the story, it was the (life threatening?) actions of the "perp" (lowering his hands?) that caused the officer to shoot.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The "perp" might also have assumed that having shown his hands to have been empty was why the officer then told him to walk forward. If it is a life and death difference then it is certainly worth repeating and emphasizing the importance of keeping your hands raised (or on/above your head) while walking forward. The "perp" may have (fatally) assumed that hands up time was over when it became walk forward time.

It was interesting to hear the 911 operator's (dispatcher's?) questions about the "crime scene" description. From the information given one would expect a single story structure that strongly smelled of gasoline. Asking more questions of this type (color/type of exterior walls and trim), and actually paying attention to the answers given, could limit the effectiveness of these (long distance?) hoax calls.
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When you have a dozen cops pointing guns at you it's no time to assume that "hands up time" is over.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The officer firing the fatal shot must have much more than a hoax report of an alleged crime at that address to execute the alleged "perp". As I read the story, it was the (life threatening?) actions of the "perp" (lowering his hands?) that caused the officer to shoot.
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I'm not happy with the way it went down but I can understand why it happened. In some respects it mirrors the incident in Phoenix where the cops got called about a guy with a gun in a hotel room and shot him as he was crawling.
 
PirateMk1 said:
He made a false report. Period. That's all he should go to jail for.
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Even if this situation didn't end in death, his prank would have costed the city or county tens of thousands of dollars for SWAT services. It shows a clear intent to harrass and endanger another persons life. It is in NO WAY simply filing a false police report. Similar to calling in a bomb threat which can result in multiple years of prison. Our court recognizes proportionality in crimes. The fact that a man died because of this prank means this person will suffer to the fullest extent of the law as he should.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The officer firing the fatal shot must have much more than a hoax report of an alleged crime at that address to execute the alleged "perp". As I read the story, it was the (life threatening?) actions of the "perp" (lowering his hands?) that caused the officer to shoot.
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Which is total crap, as most folks don't know the way they should act in order not to get shot.
People are overwhelmed with confusion, terror and fear, yet they get shot for not acting perfectly.
 
Crovax said:
Sure they can since all the received was an anonymous phone call. I wish a lot more police would get shot(note:not seriously hurt or killed) when they go unannounced into homes like that and maybe they would stop doing it. Someone comes unannounced through my door they are getting quite a few rounds into them.
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The problem is that from the police's perspective it is not an anonymous phone call. Often in these swatting pranks the phone number is made to look as if it came from that residence.
 
Lutherf said:
When you have a dozen cops pointing guns at you it's no time to assume that "hands up time" is over.
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That appears to be the case but whether the call was a hoax or not does not alter that basic reality. Either it was, or was not, a legitimate shoot because the law clearly states that one is presumed to be innocent. The assertion, well founded or not, of a crime at a particular address is what caused this police encounter - how that police encounter goes is not up to anyone but those present.
 
Lutherf said:
I'm not happy with the way it went down but I can understand why it happened. In some respects it mirrors the incident in Phoenix where the cops got called about a guy with a gun in a hotel room and shot him as he was crawling.
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Yep, very similar LEO response - a report of seeing a gun was plenty enough to make a deviation from expected behavior a justification for police to shoot to kill. Was it the caller's fault that the Phoenix the "perp" was killed for having a pellet rifle in public view?
 
Lutherf said:
I'm not happy with the way it went down but I can understand why it happened. In some respects it mirrors the incident in Phoenix where the cops got called about a guy with a gun in a hotel room and shot him as he was crawling.
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Yea. Very similar. When you are scared and confused, it's easy to flinch or move in a habitutal way like pulling your pants up. I understand why police do these things. Perhaps theres room in their training to be more understanding that people who are suddenly confronted by armored police with rifles might flinch, but the dude in Phoenix was warned a million times. I gotta think a different approach would have been better there. Instead of making a terrified young couple crawl on the floor at gun point, they could have gone over and searched them for weapons.
 
vash1012 said:
Yea. Very similar. When you are scared and confused, it's easy to flinch or move in a habitutal way like pulling your pants up. I understand why police do these things. Perhaps theres room in their training to be more understanding that people who are suddenly confronted by armored police with rifles might flinch, but the dude in Phoenix was warned a million times. I gotta think a different approach would have been better there. Instead of making a terrified young couple crawl on the floor at gun point, they could have gone over and searched them for weapons.
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Except in that situation the cops would have put themselves in danger. The reason they were told to crawl toward them was so that they could search them clear of the doorways in the hall. The cops do not know if someone else is in the room waiting with a weapon.
 
Nap said:
Except in that situation the cops would have put themselves in danger. The reason they were told to crawl toward them was so that they could search them clear of the doorways in the hall. The cops do not know if someone else is in the room waiting with a weapon.
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When you are storming a house with a person who you have verified to be armed and dangerous, that makes perfect sense. The common denominator in these cases is a dubious claim from an unknown caller. One saw a gun being pointed out a window from who knows how far away. Another made a false claim about the person holding them hostage. There was the person who called about a young black boy they thought had a gun on the playground a few years back who ended up being shot. The guy in walmart who was walking around with an air rifle. Etc. Etc. We've change the way we train police and use SWAT forces in this country to address our ever increasing threats we face from mass shooters and terrorists in this country. Thats necessary, but its also true that we are increasingly using these tactics to confront situations where the police do not have any first hand reason to believe a person is a threat. They've been taught to assume the worst and, when they do, innocent people get killed. Maybe asking them to change that mindset is asking them to take on more risk. It probably is. But its a fair thing to do in light of all the unnecessary killings that are taking place in my opinion.
 
PirateMk1 said:
It was in NO way his fault the man died. An attorney can present a case for that. I do mean NO way. The death of that man was completely and totally on the police. This guy is guilty of calling in a false report at best.
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It's on both.

We have voluntary manslaughter specifically for situations where a reasonable person would understand that their actions were sufficiently reckless to create whatever likelihood of death the given state requires. Even an imbecile would understand that making that particular false report is very likely to leave someone dead. It shouldn't, but that's the state of modern policing it would seem.
 
He should be tried for premeditated murder.
 
Deuce said:
Exactly how much tactical analysis do you think occurs during the three seconds you have remaining to live when armed men kick your door down?
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If armed men in tactical gear are kicking down my door I sure as heck am not thinking of shooting them.
 
Crovax said:
Cops do tens of millions of no knock entries every year? That seems excessive
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Did I say that? Or did I say that there are tens of millions of police interactions every year? Don't pretend via cherry picking that all the hubbub of police killings happen with just no knock entries. You know as well as I do that this killing will be added to the over all "score" by those that are always criticizing the police. Which includes every type of killing. Both justified and the even fewer instances of unjustified. And while no knock entries may not be as common as all other types of police interactions they are still happen every day. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean they don't happen.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I think he said "interactions" not "no knock entries."

Everytime an officer writes a moving violation ticket it's an interaction.
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And that is a completely different dynamic that the situation in the OP.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Did I say that? Or did I say that there are tens of millions of police interactions every year? Don't pretend via cherry picking that all the hubbub of police killings happen with just no knock entries. You know as well as I do that this killing will be added to the over all "score" by those that are always criticizing the police. Which includes every type of killing. Both justified and the even fewer instances of unjustified. And while no knock entries may not be as common as all other types of police interactions they are still happen every day. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean they don't happen.
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I don’t know why you would be talking about any other types of interactions since the OP is about a no knock entry and I was talking about no knock entries and I specifically said that I support police judgment calls that turn out bad outside of no knock entries. No knock entries are highly dangerous to the citizens and are largely avoidable.
 
vash1012 said:
When you are storming a house with a person who you have verified to be armed and dangerous, that makes perfect sense. The common denominator in these cases is a dubious claim from an unknown caller. One saw a gun being pointed out a window from who knows how far away. Another made a false claim about the person holding them hostage. There was the person who called about a young black boy they thought had a gun on the playground a few years back who ended up being shot. The guy in walmart who was walking around with an air rifle. Etc. Etc. We've change the way we train police and use SWAT forces in this country to address our ever increasing threats we face from mass shooters and terrorists in this country. Thats necessary, but its also true that we are increasingly using these tactics to confront situations where the police do not have any first hand reason to believe a person is a threat. They've been taught to assume the worst and, when they do, innocent people get killed. Maybe asking them to change that mindset is asking them to take on more risk. It probably is. But its a fair thing to do in light of all the unnecessary killings that are taking place in my opinion.
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There has been a drastic increase in cop killings and ambushes, police are human and know that the slightest hesitation could result in them not being able to go home to their families. Simply looking at the issue from one side without accounting for the reasons police might be on edge is rather ignorant of the danger these people face. Changing ones mindset when it could very well mean life or death is a rather tall order.

Also, in this swatting incident it wasn't someone calling about being held hostage. From the police's perspective it was the hostage taker and the phone appearing to originate from that property. There was no way for them to know that it was a prank.
 
Goshin said:
He should be tried for premeditated murder.
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Seriously. I'm tired of people who do stupid and dangerous **** "for the lulz."
 
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