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Jailed Russian says he hacked DNC on Kremlin’s orders and can prove it

ReverendHellh0und said:
:lol: so those polls being wrong has nothing to do with all the other polls being wrong, cept for the one common denominator, the pollster's bias.
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I appreciate the fact that the people on the far right consider science and facts biased. Unfortunately for you the truth has a political bias. Sorry pal, but one can not have a debate of impressions. If you can not settle on a few known truths, the idea of debate is just rhetoric masturbation.

When Trump tried telling us his inaugural crowd was the largest ever, I embarrassed for him; when his surrogates started supporting that statement with "alternative facts", I was embarrassed for our nation; when people on DP started to argue the same, I knew we were in trouble.
 
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Dittohead not! said:
Which is why Comey, after having been fired for getting too close to the truth in the Russian investigation, said under oath that there was no doubt that Russia meddled in the election.
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Well yes. It serms that the FBI was seeking out FISA warrants based upon anti-Trump information supplied to the Democrats by the Russian government.
Perhaps that is the interference he is referring to?
 
Athanasius68 said:
Couple of things:
1. Steele was hired by Fusion after they were hired by the Clinton campaign. Their
report has nothing to do with the Republicans.

2. We dont know who Steele sources were or whether they were sanctioned to say anything. Its probably easier to reason that the Russian government was full of benevolent folks when they were trashing Trump, and evil incarnate when it comes to dealing with Clinton. But there is certainly no evidence to draw such a conclusion.

3. The comparison made between the actions of Clinton vs. actions of Trump witg respect to Russia is rather amusing in light that the actions of the former are described as 'did happen' whereas the actions of the latter are described as 'may have happened.'

4. 'Whataboutism' exists because Clinton is tangled up with this stuff as well. "Collusion" is impossible absent Clinton bungling of her emails, and her campaign had no problems relying upon Russian sources to impugn Trump.
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You fail to understand the incredibility significant distinction between the two. The Trump campaign being contacted by officials of the Russian government and taking the meeting for the purpose of acquiring something of value from a foreign government to influence a US election may be a violation of multiple laws. The Clinton campaign contracting with a US company to perform opposition research is not. They are not comparable events.

The Trump campaign foolishly took that meeting and now is entitled to the wrath of suspicion. The only type of Trump defense that people have been about to amount are "whataboutisms" that are generally shallow (not comparable, as is this one) and non-responsive to the issue at hand. T

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...a32c91c6f40_story.html?utm_term=.55711072d03b

THE 2000 CAMPAIGN: THE DEBATE; Gore Aide Receives, Then Lets Go Of Hot Potato - The New York Times

OPINION | Trump says anyone would collude, but in 2000 election, I called the FBI | TheHill

It's revealing to all of us that the best argument you have in defense of Johnny is that Tommy did it to.... well, we are talking about Johnny.

Fletch said:
Pointing out liberal hypocrisy and hackery is relevant to every thread. Nowhere is it more evident than on the Russian issue. There is zero evidence of Trump collusion with Russia. The dossier is evidence that there was collusion but it the Clinton camp and the dems that engaged in it.
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The premise of your argument this is hypocrisy is the equivalence of the actions of Trump and Clinton. If they were equivalent, you might have a point. But, they are not equivalent, so you don't. This thread is about whether the Trump campaign were in receipt of stolen goods from the DNC. It is not about the Dossier. If you want to start that thread and make the assertion they are the same thing; go for it. I will debate that there. In this particular thread, the Dossier is irrelevant.

At the very least, the Trump campaign did a stupid thing. They (and their supporters) need to man-up and take the consequences.
 
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upsideguy said:
You fail to understand the incredibility significant distinction between the two. The Trump campaign being contacted by officials of the Russian government and taking the meeting for the purpose of acquiring something of value from a foreign government to influence a US election may be a violation of multiple laws. The Clinton campaign contracting with a US company to perform opposition research is not. They are not comparable events.

The Trump campaign foolishly took that meeting and now is entitled to the wrath of suspicion.
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Ok-- lets look at what we know:

Trump

Met with with a couple of people who DID NOT claim to be Russian government government officials, who said they might be able to get dirt on Clinton. The Russian government has denied they worked for the government. There is no evidence that Trump received anything, nor is there any evidence that Russia had anything to give (remember Russia denies any hacking. Be skeptical of that claim all you want, but we are talking here about crime for which proof is required. An intelligence conclusion us not proof).

Clinton

She hired a law firm which contracted out with a pro Russian firm who hired a british spy to get dirt on Trump from the Russian government. The famous dossier is the proof of what Clinton did.

Now-- upon whom is there more evidence of collusion, of working with the great enemy of America, of corrupting the political process to threaten mom, baseball, summer BBQ's and America in general, all to win the presidency?

Be suspicious of Trump all you want. But the evidence we have points at somebody else.
 
worksforpigs said:
Where is the evidence against Trump?

And the Democrats mocked Republicans who called Russia a geopolitical foe, so why accuse the Republicans of looking the other way?

https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/260497619862835201
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Of course, the flip side to that line of reasoning is that the Republicans were calling Russia a geo-political foe, yet too many now consider their meddling in our elections no big deal. Which is it? (for the record, I think Romney "overstated" the Russian foe quality and Obama understated it). They are not a friend of the US.

As to evidence of collusion or other election improprieties (including obstruction of justice), you are just going to have to be patient. There is an incredible team working on this.

Lawyers Robert Mueller hired for the Trump-Russia investigation - Business Insider

They will likely nail some and clear some. You will just have to be patient. No one likes spoilers.
 
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upsideguy said:
I appreciate the fact that the people on the far right consider science and facts biased. Unfortunately for you the truth has a political bias. Sorry pal, but one can not have a debate of impressions. If you can not settle on a few known truths, the idea of debate is just rhetoric masturbation.

When Trump tried telling us his inaugural crowd was the largest ever, I embarrassed for him; when his surrogates started supporting that statement with "alternative facts", I was embarrassed for our nation; when people on DP started to argue the same, I knew we were in trouble.
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You far left dependent class communists should really look at the polling demographics, when you as a matter of policy oversample democrats and independents you get looks like this on election night from your collectivist idols. ;)



you and your ilk are suckers for fake news and will gladly remain gullible and "useful" to them.
 
Fledermaus said:
Oh, I know that... But Haymarket believes that the best way to request covert assistance In throwing an election is to openly ask for it in the form of a joke during a campaign speech....

Kinda silly, eh?
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We don't know if that was a "joke" or not. You are making the gracious assumption that it was. OTH, when a Presidential candidate speaks from the podium, the electorate are free to assume that each thing he says is dead serious. He is accountable for all he says, in seriousness or in jest.

At the very least, it was a exceptionally poor form on Trump's part. He will have to answer to it. You can be assured if a conspiracy case is built, this will be a element (albeit a minor element) he will be compelled to explain as otherwise his "joking" speaks to his frame of mind.
 
worksforpigs said:
The smoking gun to what? That the DNC suffers such internal corruption that it coming to light in part cost them the election? This is just part of the Hillary scapegoat story. The woman sucks. She's corrupt. She was a bad candidate.
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You seem to forget she lost.
Strange that the Russians had zero C grabber emails?
Ever wonder about that?
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You far left dependent class communists should really look at the polling demographics, when you as a matter of policy oversample democrats and independents you get looks like this on election night from your collectivist idols. ;)



you and your ilk are suckers for fake news and will gladly remain gullible and "useful" to them.
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You really should do a little research into how polling works. This concept of "oversampling" of democrats is actually a refinement in polling technique that allows pollsters to better understand sub-demographics. The Democrats tend to have more sub-demographics than Republicans (the Dems include far more numerous ethnic groups). To a lay person or someone that does what they are told by Fox News this is believed to be some type of poll manipulation, but to educated people that understand the science of statistical sampling, it shows polling sophistication.

You need to do a much better job of independently verifying the garbage you are getting from Fox and other political porn sites. This will help.

Sampling | Pew Research Center

Oversampling is used to study small groups, not bias poll results | Pew Research Center
 
upsideguy said:
We don't know if that was a "joke" or not. You are making the gracious assumption that it was. OTH, when a Presidential candidate speaks from the podium, the electorate are free to assume that each thing he says is dead serious. He is accountable for all he says, in seriousness or in jest.

At the very least, it was a exceptionally poor form on Trump's part. He will have to answer to it. You can be assured if a conspiracy case is built, this will be a element (albeit a minor element) he will be compelled to explain as otherwise his "joking" speaks to his frame of mind.
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Yes... The evil villain always monologs the sooper sekret plot in front of an audience....

No, that is pure Conspiracy Theory thinking....
 
Fledermaus said:
Yes... The evil villain always monologs the sooper sekret plot in front of an audience....

No, that is pure Conspiracy Theory thinking....
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Foolish arrogance usually defies logic and defines the Trump presidency. From a smarter or less arrogant speaker, the benefit of the doubt would be his, but not so for Trump.

If you understand how legal cases are packaged, you will know that Trump, if charged, will be called to account for those statements.
 
upsideguy said:
Foolish arrogance usually defies logic and defines the Trump presidency. From a smarter or less arrogant speaker, the benefit of the doubt would be his, but not so for Trump.

If you understand how legal cases are packaged, you will know that Trump, if charged, will be called to account for those statements.
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And anyone that takes an effing joke as some sort of invitation to hack the election should be bounced off the jury for being a fool.
 
upsideguy said:
Of course, the flip side to that line of reasoning is that the Republicans were calling Russia a geo-political foe, yet too many now consider their meddling in our elections no big deal. Which is it? (for the record, I think Romney "overstated" the Russian foe quality and Obama understated it). They are not a friend of the US.

As to evidence of collusion or other election improprieties (including obstruction of justice), you are just going to have to be patient. There is an incredible team working on this.

Lawyers Robert Mueller hired for the Trump-Russia investigation - Business Insider

They will likely nail some and clear some. You will just have to be patient. No one likes spoilers.
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An investigation is occuring into the actions of the current president. Yet the evidence that pops up seems to keep pointing to shennanigans by his predecessor and by the person the current president beat.
Such is the cause of 'whataboutism.'
 
Athanasius68 said:
Well yes. It serms that the FBI was seeking out FISA warrants based upon anti-Trump information supplied to the Democrats by the Russian government.
Perhaps that is the interference he is referring to?
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Oh, sure, sure, it was all interference by the Democrats, not by the Russians at all.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Russia launches an effort to screw with the USA election and its a problem just for the Democrats?
How about 'How does Russia think it can get away with something like that'? Doesnt their lack of concern suggest a problem?
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what did they actually do?

what did they actually screw with?

people keep alluding that trump's team paid for it to happen, yet we are miles from any proof on that aspect from what i see

do i like they tried messing with the election? no

but it would be nice if we actually knew what if anything they accomplished....

and was it done because we mess with other countries elections, or was Putin trying to get something to happen, or did someone high up in government want it to happen?

all speculation right now....and we dont even know if this guy is telling the truth
 
Dittohead not! said:
Oh, sure, sure, it was all interference by the Democrats, not by the Russians at all.
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Look-- if you wish to argue Russia attempted to interfere with 2016 election, no argunent from me.

But if you wish to argue that Trump colluded with that interference, I am sorry, there simply is a dearth of evidence supporting the assertion.

And if you wish to argue that Trump and others might/will face jail time behind this, then I am sorry to say, but there is no evidence, that would be suitable in a court of law, that Russia even interfered in the election.
And since that cant be proven, it can hardly be proven there was collusion.
 
upsideguy said:
You really should do a little research into how polling works. This concept of "oversampling" of democrats is actually a refinement in polling technique that allows pollsters to better understand sub-demographics. The Democrats tend to have more sub-demographics than Republicans (the Dems include far more numerous ethnic groups). To a lay person or someone that does what they are told by Fox News this is believed to be some type of poll manipulation, but to educated people that understand the science of statistical sampling, it shows polling sophistication.

You need to do a much better job of independently verifying the garbage you are getting from Fox and other political porn sites. This will help.

Sampling | Pew Research Center

Oversampling is used to study small groups, not bias poll results | Pew Research Center
Click to expand...





See they depend on your arrogant gullibility.


Your vaunted pollsters over-sample democrats by 10-15% plus way over-sample independents. You then arrogantly proclaim this is "Scientific". Let me ask you then. if trump received 2% less votes than hillary in the popular, why would you way oversample democrats?


They count on your close minded team sports arrogance. yet you and your ilk are constantly embarrassed by these fraudulent polls.


I don't watch fox, or any cable news, and whatever porn you watch is your business.


And education is one thing, I would happily put mine up against yours. It's that independent, logical, and critical thinking skills you forgot to develop when it comes your true believer glasses.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Russia launches an effort to screw with the USA election and its a problem just for the Democrats?
How about 'How does Russia think it can get away with something like that'? Doesnt their lack of concern suggest a problem?
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The problem with an assumption of Russia targeting Trump is it misses the obvious purpose of Russian meddling. The goal of Russian meddling is to undermine the confidence that US citizens have in their democratic institutions. Full stop.

That being the goal, there is no better and more fertile soil to sew such distrust than in the hearts and minds of the losing side. To assume that Russian meddling just took a gamble and went all in on Trump (when all conventional wisdom gave him a single digit chance of winning) is pretty crazy and not supported by the evidence. Putin is many things, but he doesn't show any signs of being a political gambler. He covers all the bases. Russia did nothing that has been proven to actually significantly change the voting pattern of American voters. The Russian Facebook ads were targeting wing nuts on both sides of the political spectrum. They sewed the seeds of discontent on both sides, and it just happens that the seeds sewn with Republican voters didn't sprout because Trump won, while the seeds sewn with the Democrats blossomed.

Honest question: What would the anti-Trumpers on this forum think Putin's disposition is on the Mueller investigation? How do you think he wants that to turn out and why?
 
Conservative said:
Sounds like a DNC problem that needs to be prosecuted. How did that affect the election results?? seems your outrage is misguided but certainly predictable. Those great Trump economic numbers are indeed staggering
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Yea thanx for the hyper partisan BS, but things kept on a hard drive are private property. And I deeply believe in private property rights. No doubt the DNC had some incriminating things stolen from them and made public. ANd if what was released by Russia in that data breach bothers you then pursue it. But you have to realize at some point that the information was released because of foreign nation wanted to destabilize the US. And as it stands it appears that the Trump campaign was involved in some way with the attack on the US. Now I dont know about you, but I find that very alarming even if Trump naively not knowing wtf he was doing was manipulated by Russia its still something that needs to be thoroughly investigated. But here you are chasing the carrot that Putin is waving in front of you.

AT this point I view hyper partisan politics as anti American. You are playing into the enemies hand. And make no mistake Putin is our enemy as much as Stalin, Hitler, Mao or anyone else like that was. We are not ever going to get along with Putin, like our traitor President thinks we could. IMO the best action at this point is for Americans to reject the president and to pit the world against Putin and stop him in his tracks. Much like North Korea a choice needs to be made, either we sit by and let it happen or we become proactive. But then again people like you are too busy attacking your rival political party.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Yea thanx for the hyper partisan BS, but things kept on a hard drive are private property. And I deeply believe in private property rights. No doubt the DNC had some incriminating things stolen from them and made public. ANd if what was released by Russia in that data breach bothers you then pursue it. But you have to realize at some point that the information was released because of foreign nation wanted to destabilize the US. And as it stands it appears that the Trump campaign was involved in some way with the attack on the US. Now I dont know about you, but I find that very alarming even if Trump naively not knowing wtf he was doing was manipulated by Russia its still something that needs to be thoroughly investigated. But here you are chasing the carrot that Putin is waving in front of you.

AT this point I view hyper partisan politics as anti American. You are playing into the enemies hand. And make no mistake Putin is our enemy as much as Stalin, Hitler, Mao or anyone else like that was. We are not ever going to get along with Putin, like our traitor President thinks we could. IMO the best action at this point is for Americans to reject the president and to pit the world against Putin and stop him in his tracks. Much like North Korea a choice needs to be made, either we sit by and let it happen or we become proactive. But then again people like you are too busy attacking your rival political party.
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Appreciate your opinion but that is all it is. Too bad the same scrutiny wasn't done on Hillary. We had two choices and I chose Trump. So far the results support my vote and the change being generated is positive. PC bs has to stop and Trump is doing that.

Russia doesn't concern me at all China does. No votes were hacked and all the charges against Trump are partisan and you know it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
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