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Thread: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

  1. #21
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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Come on, Republicans. You have a golden opportunity to pass a bill that simplifies the tax code and gives permanent tax relief to the people you most need to get on your side - the middle class. You need to live up to your promise to reduce the deficit. You need to at least put forth the appearance of not wanting to help the wealthy and the corporations.

    But you didn't. This bill is bad, and will negatively impact you for a very long time. This is history repeating itself. Look at what the ACA did to the Democrats.

    It's depressing.

    With the House of Representatives likely to take up the Republican tax reform bill Tuesday, the plan faces growing opposition and a widespread perception that it will benefit the wealthy more than the middle class, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

    Opposition to the bill has grown 10 points since early November, and 55% now oppose it. Just 33% say they favor the GOP's proposals to reform the nation's tax code.

    Related: Full poll results

    Two-thirds see the bill as doing more to benefit the wealthy than the middle class (66%, vs. 27% who say it'll do more to benefit the middle class) and almost four in 10 (37%) say that if the bill becomes law, their own family will be worse off. That's grown five points since early November. Just 21% say they'll be better off if the bill becomes law.


    President Donald Trump, the bill's salesperson-in-chief, lands at an overall 35% approval rating in this poll, his worst mark yet in CNN polling by one point. Trump's approval ratings continue to be the lowest for any modern president at this point in his presidency. As of December of their first year in office, all first-time elected presidents back to Eisenhower have approval ratings of 49% or higher except for Trump.

    More than six in 10 (63%) see the tax bill as leaving the President and his family better off. Just 5% think it harms the Trump clan. And disapproval of the President's handling of taxes has risen six points in the last month, to 57%.


    More here:

    Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches
    They don't care for voters, just wealthy corporations. They know they can sell lies to the Fox "news" watching dupes forever.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    More than half the country opposed Obamacare when it was passed. Should that have prevented it from becoming law?
    No. But if that's true (and it is), then why should we repeat history?

    Keep in mind too that most Americans had employer sponsored insurance before the ACA was passed, and most Americans continue to have employer sponsored insurance today. If I remember the polls correctly, the plurality of Americans (myself included) believed that the ACA would have no impact on us. Generally speaking, it didn't. I still have my insurance.

    The ACA was a failure as it was only an entitlement and didn't lower costs for most Americans. So again, that said, why would Republicans try to do the same thing that Democrats did?
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  3. #23
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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoverness View Post
    Uh, no?
    I agree. Curious that people think a poll should determine whether a bill should be passed or not.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    It expires for everyone due to reconciliation rules. Read the bill. Page one states the tax rate changes only apply through 2025.

    ‘(1) IN GENERAL.—In the case of a taxable
    19 year beginning after December 31, 2017, and before
    20 January 1, 2026—
    21 ‘‘(A) subsection (i) shall not apply, and
    ‘(B) this section (other than subsection
    2 (i)) shall be applied as provided in paragraphs
    3 (2) through (6).

    Only the business changes are permanent.
    Wrong. According to the Tax Foundation, this bill:

    Lowers the corporate income tax rate permanently to 21 percent, starting in 2018.
    https://taxfoundation.org/final-tax-...ails-analysis/
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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You're confident that you're going to see a $4000 pay raise, tw? You're one of almost 126 million households in this country. That would be a $503 billion pay increase across the board. Given that the Treasury collected $297 billion in corporate income taxes in fiscal year 2017, before the tax cut, how do you square that?

    https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsre...mt/mts0917.pdf
    A $4K annual pay increase for someone making $15/hour would be about more 5 hours of work per week. It would not take much economic improvement for me to have the opportunity to work an extra 5 hours per week (should I elect to do so).
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 12-19-17 at 08:56 AM.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    No. But if that's true (and it is), then why should we repeat history?

    Keep in mind too that most Americans had employer sponsored insurance before the ACA was passed, and most Americans continue to have employer sponsored insurance today. If I remember the polls correctly, the plurality of Americans (myself included) believed that the ACA would have no impact on us. Generally speaking, it didn't. I still have my insurance.

    The ACA was a failure as it was only an entitlement and didn't lower costs for most Americans. So again, that said, why would Republicans try to do the same thing that Democrats did?
    Polls are shaped by public perception of an issue, and not really the actual facts of the situation. From what I've seen, a lot of the media has been pretty negative regarding the tax bill, and that impacts the public's perception. Also, from what I've read and heard about the bill itself, I don't think this tax bill is as horrible as is being presented.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    A $4K annual pay increase for someone making $15/hour would be about more 5 hours of work per week.
    Okay?

    So again, do you expect that $4000 pay raise from the corporate tax cut, and how does everyone get it since that would be $503 billion, and corporations only paid $297 billion before their taxes are cut?
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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Polls are shaped by public perception of an issue, and not really the actual facts of the situation. From what I've seen, a lot of the media has been pretty negative regarding the tax bill, and that impacts the public's perception. Also, from what I've read and heard about the bill itself, I don't think this tax bill is as horrible as is being presented.
    I'm sure the media is negative. Many in the media were negative about the ACA and other bills, too.

    I looked at what I could of the tax plan, and read like a demon the last few weeks. I can't see the benefit to me. And it's supposed to benefit me (a middle class American), not corporations.

    Do you think many Americans are sitting around saying "I sure hope the already record profitable corporations get a tax cut"? Only about 50 percent of Americans are invested in the market in one form or another.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    I agree. Curious that people think a poll should determine whether a bill should be passed or not.
    I don't recall anyone saying that, Moon. I started this thread and never said that.

    The perception of the American public about this bill should give anyone who is a Republican, like me, pause. I don't know about you, but I don't care to see the same thing happen to the Republicans that happened to the Democrats after they passed the unpopular ACA. Or is it better to not have that conversation?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Okay?

    So again, do you expect that $4000 pay raise from the corporate tax cut, and how does everyone get it since that would be $503 billion, and corporations only paid $297 billion before their taxes are cut?
    What are you basing this claim that "everybody will get $4K annual raise from the corporate tax rate reduction" on?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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