Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

Oreo said:

Where in the hell did you get that this is a middle class tax cut? The middle class cuts expire in 5 years, meaning your tax brackets will be changed upwards. Large Corporations, you know like Big pharma that has been ripping us off get a reduction in their taxes from 35% down to 21% and those will remain permanent.

This is being spun that it will create more jobs in this country. It won't. Large corporations move jobs overseas to avoid payroll, payroll taxes, workman's compensation, etc. here.-- So you give them this yuuuuuuge tax cut, they'll just use that money to expand their operations overseas, or stuff their own pockets with it.

Elimination of the Obamacare mandate in this bill--will skyrocket insurance premiums around the country.

The middle working class in this country gets a big stick shoved up a dark spot.

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Um.....no idea what your first question in bold means. Did you maybe not understand my post?

Conservative said:

Well then don't listen but the fact remains that liberals like you will never answer direct questions using official data because then you would have to admit you are wrong. How does people keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family or the country??

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Well lets say those getting the big breaks use that money to buy residential real estate to use as rentals, which they have been doing.

This takes homes off the market which causes prices to go up. Which causes rents to go up. So I will have to pay higher rents while having to save even more money to buy.

That's one way.

Conservative said:

Really? how does allowing people to keep more of what they earn create a deficit?? 1-2 trillion dollars? where were you when Obama added 9.3 TRILLION to the debt??

Reducing income? People keeping more of what they earn reduces income? Really? Data doesn't support your contention so maybe you ought to call Treasury and tell them that Reagan didn't increase FIT revenue over 60% with three years of tax cuts or Bush didn't increase tax revenue over 30% with his tax cuts. Seems that the left believes their own lies.

It does appear that most people including you have no understanding of what is in the bill. When people see more spendable income they will change that number quickly. Apparently you buy predictions and ignore history

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My but you have no understanding of how things work.
Reduced income refers to government income reduction due to decreased tax income.
Reduced governmental income increases the deficit, also known as debt.
The 1 to 2 trillion dollars is the lost federal income and corresponding deficit increases.
What Obama did is not relevant in the discussion of this bill and the moronic GOP actions.
Your entire post shows some serious ignorance in how governmental cash flow works.
Maybe some remedial research might help to educate you.

Deuce said:

First, their taxes only go down temporarily. Then they go up. Their taxes going up does not make them better off.

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Wrong, they would revert to previous policy if the cut isn't extended. They will only revert to old policy if there is a Democrat Congress or a Democrat president. A Republican Congress and President would extend the new tax policy.

Then, their insurance premiums are going to go up also. For many families, the rise in premiums will be higher than the temporary cut in taxes.

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Who's "they"? There is no longer a mandated level of coverage requirement, so anyone who wants catastrophic insurance outside of the exchanges will get a far better deal than the crap they were being force fed on the exchanges.

Then, and this will shock you, it's not just about money in pockets. This is "1.5" trillion dollars their kids will have to pay off. (actual number will be higher). Teachers will have a harder time paying for school supplies in the classroom that that family's kids go to.

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AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! THis from a guy who defended the growth of the national debt to nearly $20 trillion under Obama... seriously, why are Democrats so mysteriously ignorant of recent history?

The thing is, if those families have jobs rather than welfare in 2025 that will matter more than an extra 0.7% to the national debt annually, assuming the projections hold through 2027.

Then there's some oddball cases. 100k income with two kids in college? Whoops. Taxes go up because you've eliminated some major deductions there. It gets worse over time because the deductions in the new plan don't adjust for inflation.

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How about you show the math, is it anything like this bizarre CNN scenario list? What they don't tell you is that the one scenario where the person making $70k has their taxes go up would have to have $500,000 in personal property for that tax bill...

Cuts to federal revenue mean some things we want might not get paid for. Remember CHIP? GOP is claiming we just can't afford it, but we can tack on trillions more in deficits to fund corporate tax cuts? What if a family relies on CHIP for their child's health care. You really don't understand why they're upset about all this?

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LOL. Again, we ran debts over a trillion annually and not a peep. Now a potential $150 billion and "ZOMG!! HOW WE PAYZ!?" :roll:

It doesn't seem to occur to you that people care about more than the 2018 tax return.

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Based on your post people concern themselves with a lot of bull ****.

Conservative said:

So tell us exactly what specifically in the bill that you don't support? Apparently people keeping more of what they earn is a problem for you so send yours back

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It ain't about me.
What part indicating that only 33% of Americans support this bill is difficult for you to comprehend?
You seem to be exceptionally challenged about very simple concepts.
Your mindless regurgitation of party talking points without understanding the overall situation ain't doing you any favors here.
You need to work harder to understand what is really going on instead of just talking.

Removable Mind said:

Of course you support Republican (conservative) propaganda. You still don't have a clue about the REAL consequences of the tax bill/law.

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I have a pretty good idea unlike you, People keeping more of what they earn is always a good thing and does nothing to hurt you, your family, or this country. You buy rhetoric and ignore history and results. I was a JFK Democrat who cut TAXES, Reagan CUT TAXES, and GW Bush CUT taxes, all generated incredible economic growth and activity growing Federal Revenue. History isn't your friend so why don't you stop letting the left make a fool out of you. Consequences? What consequences are there for people keeping more of what they earn?

ttwtt78640 said:

OK, but since the deficit did increase then it is an outright lie to say that it decreased.

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Lie? hardly, in 4 months Obama added 360 billion to the deficit and in 9 Trump added 307 billion to the deficit. Is that an increase or a reduction in the growth of the deficit. My mistake was not saying growth in the deficit which is hardly a lie

Conservative said:

Therein lies the problem, you believe the federal bureaucrats can solve state and local problems vs the people closest to the problem. When you send a dollar to the Federal Govt. it is one less dollar for the state to solve those problems you deem important. My solution one is personal responsibility and two changing human behavior from that entitlement mentality and then let states and local communities solve their own problems

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Yeah, just don't be poor, poor people! That's the Conservative solution to sick children not getting health care.

Must be nice to live in this land of unicorns and fairies where if anyone just works hard everything will be fine always. The universe is totally fair that way.


You still haven't actually put forward a policy. Just platitudes. Did you think I wouldn't notice?

Conservative said:

Well then don't listen but the fact remains that liberals like you will never answer direct questions using official data because then you would have to admit you are wrong. How does people keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family or the country??

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Oh the irony is strong with this one today....LOL. Conservative you know that you are constantly called out on this site for posting data that you obviously know nothing about and when people point out that the data doesn't support your argument you scamper off every time.

SMTA said:

My but you have no understanding of how things work.
Reduced income refers to government income reduction due to decreased tax income.
Reduced governmental income increases the deficit, also known as debt.
The 1 to 2 trillion dollars is the lost federal income and corresponding deficit increases.
What Obama did is not relevant in the discussion of this bill and the moronic GOP actions.
Your entire post shows some serious ignorance in how governmental cash flow works.
Maybe some remedial research might help to educate you.

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One more time, show me the Treasury data that shows a reduced income because of FIT cuts?? They have only happened three times in modern history, JFK, Reagan and GW Bush. A rebate isn't a tax cut.

Reduced income has never happened because of those cuts as Treasury shows but for some reason you still believe what you are told and refuse to accept Treasury data

There is a prediction of 1-2 trillion in lost revenue but that is a prediction. Let me know when it happens and where was your outrage over the 9.3 trillion Obama added? For some reason you believe the Federal Govt. needs the money more than the people who give it to them. still waiting for an answer to the direct question, how does people keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family, or the country? Somehow for some reason you believe tax dollars leaving the state and local communities going to the Federal Govt. helps solve state and local problems. That logic gave us the current 20 trillion dollar debt and more people dependent on the people who actually pay the FIT

Conservative said:

One more time, show me the Treasury data that shows a reduced income because of FIT cuts?? They have only happened three times in modern history, JFK, Reagan and GW Bush. A rebate isn't a tax cut.

Reduced income has never happened because of those cuts as Treasury shows but for some reason you still believe what you are told and refuse to accept Treasury data

There is a prediction of 1-2 trillion in lost revenue but that is a prediction. Let me know when it happens and where was your outrage over the 9.3 trillion Obama added? For some reason you believe the Federal Govt. needs the money more than the people who give it to them. still waiting for an answer to the direct question, how does people keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family, or the country? Somehow for some reason you believe tax dollars leaving the state and local communities going to the Federal Govt. helps solve state and local problems. That logic gave us the current 20 trillion dollar debt and more people dependent on the people who actually pay the FIT

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Obama deficits: bad
Trump deficits: fine

SMTA said:

It ain't about me.
What part indicating that only 33% of Americans support this bill is difficult for you to comprehend?
You seem to be exceptionally challenged about very simple concepts.
Your mindless regurgitation of party talking points without understanding the overall situation ain't doing you any favors here.
You need to work harder to understand what is really going on instead of just talking.

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How do you know how it will affect others? Are you so different? You claim it will hurt the American people, how? You claim 33% support the bill but like you most don't even know what is in the bill. Still waiting for an answer to the questions posed and let me know what part of the House bill you don't like? Apparently logic and common sense now are party talking points. I prefer data to your mindless rhetoric and opinions

Conservative said:

I have a pretty good idea unlike you, People keeping more of what they earn is always a good thing and does nothing to hurt you, your family, or this country. You buy rhetoric and ignore history and results. I was a JFK Democrat who cut TAXES, Reagan CUT TAXES, and GW Bush CUT taxes, all generated incredible economic growth and activity growing Federal Revenue. History isn't your friend so why don't you stop letting the left make a fool out of you. Consequences? What consequences are there for people keeping more of what they earn?

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Please, stop...seriously. Why do you pretend to know how our nation's tax debacles work or what the ongoing consequences have been from one administration to another? Bull****. That's like a 100 people giving a different interpretation of the same bible scripture.

Our country has been in a Tax mess for a lot of decades because congress does not give two rats asses about their allegiance to the taxpayers. It's Congress exercising their most important power - abusively.

Conservative said:

How do you know how it will affect others? Are you so different? You claim it will hurt the American people, how? You claim 33% support the bill but like you most don't even know what is in the bill. Still waiting for an answer to the questions posed and let me know what part of the House bill you don't like? Apparently logic and common sense now are party talking points. I prefer data to your mindless rhetoric and opinions

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Says the guy who hasn't posted a single bit of data.

Deuce said:

Obama deficits: bad
Trump deficits: fine

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Yep....that's the way it works with Con.

disneydude said:

Oh the irony is strong with this one today....LOL. Conservative you know that you are constantly called out on this site for posting data that you obviously know nothing about and when people point out that the data doesn't support your argument you scamper off every time.

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LOL, yep constantly called out but never having that data refuted with facts. You do that a lot. How are things in that alternate universe you live. What data doesn't support my claim? Stop trolling and answer the direct questions

Conservative said:

LOL, yep constantly called out but never having that data refuted with facts. You do that a lot. How are things in that alternate universe you live. What data doesn't support my claim? Stop trolling and answer the direct questions

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LOL.......9 times out of 10 YOUR data is used against you. It almost always contradicts your claims which is why you are constantly called out on it. Doh!

Conservative said:

Lie? hardly, in 4 months Obama added 360 billion to the deficit and in 9 Trump added 307 billion to the deficit. Is that an increase or a reduction in the growth of the deficit. My mistake was not saying growth in the deficit which is hardly a lie

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Indeed, a reduction in growth is not a decrease it is simply a smaller increase. Bragging that a diet works because you only gained 10 pounds while on it is still ridiculous.

Removable Mind said:

Please, stop...seriously. Why do you pretend to know how our nation's tax debacles work or what the ongoing consequences have been from one administration to another? Bull****. That's like a 100 people giving a different interpretation of the same bible scripture.

Our country has been in a Tax mess for a lot of decades because congress does not give two rats asses about their allegiance to the taxpayers. It's Congress exercising their most important power - abusively.

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Which is why people keeping more of what they earn is an issue for me. it never is about taxes really but rather how those taxes are spent. for some reason you seem to believe we need a 4 trillion dollar Federal Govt. Take the mandated expenses in the Constitution and tell me what that total is, hardly 4 trillion dollars.

Seems I know a lot more about taxes that those here on the left continuing to regurgitate leftwing rhetoric and promoting class warfare. Your so called interpretation of a PROPOSED tax bill is based upon speculation that a deficit will occur. I can only show you what happened after the taxes were cut during Reagan and Bush none of which meet the leftwing rhetoric

Conservative said:

Which is why people keeping more of what they earn is an issue for me. it never is about taxes really but rather how those taxes are spent. for some reason you seem to believe we need a 4 trillion dollar Federal Govt. Take the mandated expenses in the Constitution and tell me what that total is, hardly 4 trillion dollars.

Seems I know a lot more about taxes that those here on the left continuing to regurgitate leftwing rhetoric and promoting class warfare. Your so called interpretation of a PROPOSED tax bill is based upon speculation that a deficit will occur. I can only show you what happened after the taxes were cut during Reagan and Bush none of which meet the leftwing rhetoric

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Still you don't know squat and pretend to. And you just can't help yourself from trying to pass along the government propaganda that they do so well in imparting to gullible people, which is most people when it comes to government activities.

Again, please stop trying to pass off this stuff as reality.

tres borrachos said:

Come on, Republicans. You have a golden opportunity to pass a bill that simplifies the tax code and gives permanent tax relief to the people you most need to get on your side - the middle class. You need to live up to your promise to reduce the deficit. You need to at least put forth the appearance of not wanting to help the wealthy and the corporations.

But you didn't. This bill is bad, and will negatively impact you for a very long time. This is history repeating itself. Look at what the ACA did to the Democrats.

It's depressing.

With the House of Representatives likely to take up the Republican tax reform bill Tuesday, the plan faces growing opposition and a widespread perception that it will benefit the wealthy more than the middle class, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

Opposition to the bill has grown 10 points since early November, and 55% now oppose it. Just 33% say they favor the GOP's proposals to reform the nation's tax code.

Related: Full poll results

Two-thirds see the bill as doing more to benefit the wealthy than the middle class (66%, vs. 27% who say it'll do more to benefit the middle class) and almost four in 10 (37%) say that if the bill becomes law, their own family will be worse off. That's grown five points since early November. Just 21% say they'll be better off if the bill becomes law.

President Donald Trump, the bill's salesperson-in-chief, lands at an overall 35% approval rating in this poll, his worst mark yet in CNN polling by one point. Trump's approval ratings continue to be the lowest for any modern president at this point in his presidency. As of December of their first year in office, all first-time elected presidents back to Eisenhower have approval ratings of 49% or higher except for Trump.

More than six in 10 (63%) see the tax bill as leaving the President and his family better off. Just 5% think it harms the Trump clan. And disapproval of the President's handling of taxes has risen six points in the last month, to 57%.


More here:

Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

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Ditto, Tres...

When it comes to this Tax Bill "and EVERY OTHER ENACTED", people simply don't know whether to scratch their asses or wind their watches. And everytime I read somebody's interpretation of the tax bill/law - or hear somebody tell me exactly what this tax bill/law will do, I'd rather wear a football helmet with somebody beating me my head with a baseball bat - because 99 percent of people don't understand this bill/law's true consequences, short or long-term.

Taxpayers wake up, go to work, get their paychecks and bitch about paying so much taxes come out of their checks. Then they go to the store and buy merchandise and pay more taxes. Then they by property and pay more taxes. Then they get utilities for their homes and pay more taxes. Then they get internet and like utilities, they pay taxes for it. BUT IN THE END...taxpayers don't know squat about tax laws and how they are abusive...or why they are abusive.

Our government IS CONSTITUTIONALLY INCAPABLE of being competent or truthful. Why? They are puppets and paid to legislate for the best interests of entities outside of the American taxpayers/citizens/voters. And apparently a hell of a lot of citizens are so ****ing gullible it's unbelievable. Decades of propaganda has paid off. Putin would be proud at how the American government has advanced its ability to disseminate propaganda (about every possible thing related to knowledge about government) with such effectiveness.

This is another amazing mind ****, circle jerk by Congress. Both sides of this situation in government are making me sick. Seriously.

trouble13 said:

What is bad about the bill?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

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Do you really and truly believe the US Congress in this matter? Do you actually understand this tax bill, implicitly or explicitly? Do you really have the foresight to know what the consequences of this tax bill will impose on the taxpayers in the short and long term?

Conservative said:

I have a pretty good idea unlike you, People keeping more of what they earn is always a good thing and does nothing to hurt you, your family, or this country. You buy rhetoric and ignore history and results. I was a JFK Democrat who cut TAXES, Reagan CUT TAXES, and GW Bush CUT taxes, all generated incredible economic growth and activity growing Federal Revenue. History isn't your friend so why don't you stop letting the left make a fool out of you. Consequences? What consequences are there for people keeping more of what they earn?

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You are woefully uninformed.
Reagan added $1.86 trillion dollars, adding 186% to Carter's ending deficit of $998 billion from FY1981, proving that Reaganomics did not work in getting the economy to offset tax cuts. Excessive spending.

George HW Bush added $1.544 trillion to the defect, a 54% increase from the $2.8 trillion from Reagans last year of FY1989. Excessive spending.

Clinton added $1.396 trillion, a 32% Increase to the $4.4 trillion debt left by Bush in FY1993.

If one has an IQ higher that toast, one can see that excessive spending, coupled with tax cuts, simply increases the country's deficit, or debt.
This rudimentary math can be easily understood even by folks with low IQs.

Deuce said:

Says the guy who hasn't posted a single bit of data.

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Wow, I have posted more data and more official links than any leftist in this forum. BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and Treasury data is posted over and over again only to be ignored by you. Suggest you learn how to resTable 3.2. Federal Government Current Receipts and Expenditures

[Billions of dollars]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: November 29, 2017 - Next Release Date December 21, 2017

Line 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
Line
1 Current receipts 533.7 621.1 618.7 644.8 711.2 775.7 817.9 899.5 962.4 2068.2 2031.8 1870.6 1895.1 2027.4 2303.5 2537.7 2667.2 2579.5
2 Current tax receipts 356.2 408.3 387 393.7 425.7 460.7 479.8 544.2 567.2 1313.9 1253.9 1077.7 1075.5 1158.7 1389.3 1563.4 1642.4 1520.7
3 Personal current taxes1 250.6 291.2 295.6 286.8 301.9 336.5 350.6 393 403.8 999.8 996.3 832.8 778.5 803.2 936.8 1054.6 1169.7 1174.3

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Reagan 250.6 billion to 403.9 billion in FIT revenue growth

Bush 999.9 billion to 1174.3 billion in FIT revenue growth, where are the cuts in revenue

Conservative said:

Which is why people keeping more of what they earn is an issue for me. it never is about taxes really but rather how those taxes are spent. for some reason you seem to believe we need a 4 trillion dollar Federal Govt. Take the mandated expenses in the Constitution and tell me what that total is, hardly 4 trillion dollars.

Seems I know a lot more about taxes that those here on the left continuing to regurgitate leftwing rhetoric and promoting class warfare. Your so called interpretation of a PROPOSED tax bill is based upon speculation that a deficit will occur. I can only show you what happened after the taxes were cut during Reagan and Bush none of which meet the leftwing rhetoric

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You know nothing about taxes.
If you did, you would understand how tax cuts represent a reduction in Federal revenue.
Revenue reduction coupled with excessive spending radically increases federal debt, which is bad.
No tax cuts coupled with severely reduced spending is the only way to reduce the current deficit.