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Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

calamity said:
Weren't you against raising deficits before you suddenly became in favor of them?

That's OK. Once the automatic triggers kick in, and your Medicare gets cut, you'll realize what hit you. :)
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I see predictions no deficits, what I see is Trump reducing the deficit during his first 8 months in office and expect that to continue. You buy rhetoric and predictions but when those predictions are wrong you attack Trump and Republicans on some other issue. What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty and stupidity?
 
tres borrachos said:
Come on, Republicans. You have a golden opportunity to pass a bill that simplifies the tax code and gives permanent tax relief to the people you most need to get on your side - the middle class. You need to live up to your promise to reduce the deficit. You need to at least put forth the appearance of not wanting to help the wealthy and the corporations.

But you didn't. This bill is bad, and will negatively impact you for a very long time. This is history repeating itself. Look at what the ACA did to the Democrats.

It's depressing.

With the House of Representatives likely to take up the Republican tax reform bill Tuesday, the plan faces growing opposition and a widespread perception that it will benefit the wealthy more than the middle class, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

Opposition to the bill has grown 10 points since early November, and 55% now oppose it. Just 33% say they favor the GOP's proposals to reform the nation's tax code.

Related: Full poll results

Two-thirds see the bill as doing more to benefit the wealthy than the middle class (66%, vs. 27% who say it'll do more to benefit the middle class) and almost four in 10 (37%) say that if the bill becomes law, their own family will be worse off. That's grown five points since early November. Just 21% say they'll be better off if the bill becomes law.

President Donald Trump, the bill's salesperson-in-chief, lands at an overall 35% approval rating in this poll, his worst mark yet in CNN polling by one point. Trump's approval ratings continue to be the lowest for any modern president at this point in his presidency. As of December of their first year in office, all first-time elected presidents back to Eisenhower have approval ratings of 49% or higher except for Trump.

More than six in 10 (63%) see the tax bill as leaving the President and his family better off. Just 5% think it harms the Trump clan. And disapproval of the President's handling of taxes has risen six points in the last month, to 57%.


More here:

Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches
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The constant lashing by the press is bound to have that effect. How are people suppose to know if it benefits them our not?

I suspect when people do their taxes this year, they will realize they have been duped. Except you rich liberals out there who don't want to pay more taxes, and don't want anyone else to pay less!
 
tres borrachos said:
I don't watch the news media to formulate my opinion of wanting the Republicans to keep their majorities.
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But you DO use an article from CNN to back up your thread!!! Shocked you do not admit the obvious.
 
tres borrachos said:
Meanwhile the man probably uses $500 worth of toilet paper sitting on his gold plated commode while constructing his morning Tweets.

But his supporters, who have blindly followed the reality TV game show host into the abyss, don't even realize the con job he perpetrated on them. Why should they? They haven't caught on to him so far. They enable him to con them. In fact, it appears that they encourage him to do it.
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Those hand drawn pictures of Hillary on each square add up.
 
SMTA said:
That horse**** bill has only 33% approval from American taxpayers.
It is an albatross piece of crap.
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So tell us exactly what specifically in the bill that you don't support? Apparently people keeping more of what they earn is a problem for you so send yours back
 
jmotivator said:
The law won't go into effect until at least February, and for the vast majority of people the effect won't really be felt until their March paychecks, and their 2018 tax returns. Pretty much any family with itemized deductions of less than $28,000

To put that in perspective, 71% of all filings in 2014 opted for the standard deduction, those refunds would, by default, be higher under the new plan than the old plan. Of all filings that did itemize their deductions, the average was $26,374... so it can probably be assumed that the majority of those who used the itemized deduction in 2014 will likely only need the standard deduction in 2018. Granted, that depends on the number of filers in that group who are families with at least two kids... but if we assume only 30% of those filing itemized deductions are families of 4+, that would still mean that a minimum of 80% of all filers will see a higher refund in 2018, or higher net pay in their paychecks.

Compare that to the poll in the OP that asks: "Q19. From what you know of those proposals, do you think you and your family will be better off, worse off, or about the same if they are passed and signed into law?"

... to which only 21% believed they would be better off. Do 79% of those polled not care about money, or are they just grossly misinformed?
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First, their taxes only go down temporarily. Then they go up. Their taxes going up does not make them better off.

Then, their insurance premiums are going to go up also. For many families, the rise in premiums will be higher than the temporary cut in taxes.

Then, and this will shock you, it's not just about money in pockets. This is "1.5" trillion dollars their kids will have to pay off. (actual number will be higher). Teachers will have a harder time paying for school supplies in the classroom that that family's kids go to.

Then there's some oddball cases. 100k income with two kids in college? Whoops. Taxes go up because you've eliminated some major deductions there. It gets worse over time because the deductions in the new plan don't adjust for inflation.

Cuts to federal revenue mean some things we want might not get paid for. Remember CHIP? GOP is claiming we just can't afford it, but we can tack on trillions more in deficits to fund corporate tax cuts? What if a family relies on CHIP for their child's health care. You really don't understand why they're upset about all this?

It doesn't seem to occur to you that people care about more than the 2018 tax return.
 
Fraggle Rock said:
What I love about Conservatives is that they bring to a debate their Conspiracy horse crap pulled from the bowels of Rush and Hannity's arse then complain that Liberals can't argue without name calling. Let's be clear if a person argued the earth was flat I would call them an idiot and a moron, if they claim the earth is a little more then 5000 years old I would call them an idiot and a moron. Repeating right wing conspiracy theories makes you a Parrot. Am I to gleem that the Conservative leaning FBI agents; which amount to a large portion of the FBI contingent, can not investigate Hillary because of their bias. This logic is just so DUMB. They took an oath and I believe in them. Not just in this investigation but in ALL investigations. If only people that did not call TRUMP an idiot were allowed to investigate him it would be only his family and a handful of lemmings conducting it. For Christ Sakes move on.
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LOL, you mean like the left's claim that tax cuts have to be paid for? Liberal talking points and mindless people making up their base. Rather sad to see how uneducated the radical left truly is in that they believe the govt. needs the money more than the taxpayers. Still will not answer the question, will you? How does someone else keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family or this country? you are economically challenged
 
Conservative said:
I see predictions no deficits, what I see is Trump reducing the deficit during his first 8 months in office and expect that to continue. You buy rhetoric and predictions but when those predictions are wrong you attack Trump and Republicans on some other issue. What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty and stupidity?
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:lamo
 
Conservative said:
LOL, you mean like the left's claim that tax cuts have to be paid for? Liberal talking points and mindless people making up their base. Rather sad to see how uneducated the radical left truly is in that they believe the govt. needs the money more than the taxpayers. Still will not answer the question, will you? How does someone else keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family or this country? you are economically challenged
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Ask families who relied on CHIP for their child's health care ****in how.
 
Deuce said:
This is how Republicans are better at politics. They know people can be fooled into actually buying into what jmotivator posted here.
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People don't need to be fooled into believing the truth..

So tell me Deuce, in your view, do you believe a Republican congress and President would allow the tax cuts to expire in 2025? If so, what do you believe will be their motivation?

If the GOP wants the tax cuts to actually be permanent, they need to write a bill that makes them permanent.
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For the same reason that Democrats could have permanently changed how the debt ceiling was addressed...but didn't. In 2024 the continuation of the individual tax plan will be placed before the voting public and they can decide whether to vote Democrat and see their taxes automatically go up, or vote Republican and see the cuts extended.

And they need to tell us all what that does to the deficits. You do still care about deficits, right?
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LOL. You folks have ZERO room to lecture anyone about deficits. Better that 150 billion annually in assumed extra borrowing is balanced by extra cash in my pocket for my family's expenses rather than in the bank accounts of Solyndra executives and shovel ready jobs that never materialize.
 
Removable Mind said:
Oh, God! What a crock....

To date NOBODY has a clue about what the hell the consequences will be. Most Americans aren't qualified to understand what the **** is going to happen with the new tax bill (laws)...and today...not even professional CPAs etc. People in this forum need to stop pretending they understand this bull****.

But one thing is for sure. I see all of the Democrats in Congress stand on the podium and cry about the mean old conservatives ****ing up America with their new tax bills - and then go back to their seats, curl up in the fetal position and cover their heads up. THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO EXPLAIN TO AMERICA DAILY ON NATIONAL TV, Radio, Internet, printed sources EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM THEY CLAIM with the tax bill, and what should be done to remedy every single perceived problem. What the **** is wrong with these people?

The government doesn't want people to understand this nonsense. It's what gives them power. The most powerful thing Congress holds is the right to tax. It doesn't take an Einstein to know that government is self-serving and that they have been ****ing us all to death with their "right to tax". The tax system sucks. It always has sucked. For it sucks for a reason. And the reason isn't in the best interest of America.

Hell, ordinary citizens can't debate anything about this ****. They can't understand what government is lying about every time they open their mouths.

And when I see people in DP playing like they know what this new tax law is all about...is nothing less than extraordinary, delusional bull****.
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Right, the left playbook, keep the People fat, dumb and stupid thus dependent on liberal social program that keep the left in power. How does the left explain how people keeping more of what they earn gives the Federal Govt. more power. the outrage from the left and the media over a bill that isn't even passed yet speaks volumes about the liberal ideology which is truly a disaster and is destroying this country
 
jmotivator said:
People don't need to be fooled into believing the truth..

So tell me Deuce, in your view, do you believe a Republican congress and President would allow the tax cuts to expire in 2025? If so, what do you believe will be their motivation?



For the same reason that Democrats could have permanently changed how the debt ceiling was addressed...but didn't. In 2024 the continuation of the individual tax plan will be placed before the voting public and they can decide whether to vote Democrat and see their taxes automatically go up, or vote Republican and see the cuts extended.



LOL. You folks have ZERO room to lecture anyone about deficits. Better that 150 billion annually in assumed extra borrowing is balanced by extra cash in my pocket for my family's expenses rather than in the bank accounts of Solyndra executives and shovel ready jobs that never materialize.
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I'm sure the extra cash in your pocket will be great for the family that sees their taxes go down temporarily by $500/year and sees their insurance premiums go up by $1000/year. HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY THINK THIS IS BAD FOR THEM I DONT UNDERSTAND!?

I'm glad you're admitting you never actually gave a **** about deficits.
 
Deuce said:
Ask families who relied on CHIP for their child's health care ****in how.
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So you think child healthcare is an issue for the Federal Govt. and not the states? I will be happy to ask these people WHEN there is a bill and IF what you say happens and the states don't step to assist those truly in need. You want a federal bureaucrat to do what is state and local responsibility. No wonder we have a 20 trillion dollar debt as you just throw money at problems never getting solutions
 
lurchadams said:
So you're ok with Trump and the GOP further widening the disparity between corporations and the wealthy vs. everyone else. Forget the trillions the tax bill will add to the national debt and the insecurity that will create.
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I think we really are in the part of the biological/historical cycle where it starts to get really bad.

History is nothing but the same phenomenon playing out.

The member of any species with the best access to resources is the most likely to reproduce.

As such, acquiring access to resources is strongly neurochemically rewarded. These rewards are addictive. That's how it works. This is how "instincts" work. Our brains give us pleasurable, addictive chemicals for behaviors that are pro-survival.

But like all addictions, tolerance develops.

So ever more money, more power is needed to get the same pleasurable feelings.

And as with any addict, any behavior can be justified to keep the joy juice flowing.

Looked at through this lens, history, since we adopted the sedentary lifestyle, is a cycle where those at the top feed their addictions until their activities make life so untenable for the majority that that majority forces them to stop. Then the new ones at the top start the cycle all over again.

Looks like a rough ride ahead.
 
Conservative said:
What rush? there are two bills, you have no idea what is being passed. Now answer the question how does someone keeping more of what they earn affect you and your family? Any tax cut for the American taxpayer is a good deal regardless of the leftwing rhetoric
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Ones full of cat crap and the other baby diarrhoea.

So I'm betting the final one will be ****.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
What do your purported claims about "mismanaged collected taxes" have to do with the new tax bill? How did you calculate that "they could accomplish twice as much with half of what they get"? You can support and elaborate on your last paragraph, but I think you and I both know that will be a waste of our time.

I will insist that you substantiate a post like this. Take note for the future.
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You'll insist on nothing. Like every conservative that ventures into this or any liberal vomit of a message board, I know the standard old lefty tactics of circle-talk, prepared labels, and tired charts and graphs that are absolute horse crap. It looks and sounds legit, but everybody knows it's not. ESPECIALLY you people.

If I have to provide detailed analysis for you to support the point that the government wastes massive amounts of money.....good gosh, comrade.
 
What if...? said:
Ones full of cat crap and the other baby diarrhoea.

So I'm betting the final one will be ****.
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Right any bill that allows people to keep more of what they earn is a problem for the entitlement crowd of which you are probably part of. How does anyone keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family, or the country?
 
Conservative said:
LOL, you mean like the left's claim that tax cuts have to be paid for? Liberal talking points and mindless people making up their base. Rather sad to see how uneducated the radical left truly is in that they believe the govt. needs the money more than the taxpayers. Still will not answer the question, will you? How does someone else keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family or this country? you are economically challenged
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Because governments need money to keep the country running.
 
Conservative said:
So you think child healthcare is an issue for the Federal Govt. and not the states? I will be happy to ask these people WHEN there is a bill and IF what you say happens and the states don't step to assist those truly in need. You want a federal bureaucrat to do what is state and local responsibility. No wonder we have a 20 trillion dollar debt as you just throw money at problems never getting solutions
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Parents relying on that program don't care whether it's state or Federal. They want help getting their child to a doctor when they're sick.

I'm not sure what other solution you have in mind for "sometimes poor people have children who get sick." Please, elaborate.
 
MSgt said:
Of course they are involved. The business must exist before there are consumers. But it is the consumer who provides the business owner an incentive to hire more workers and grow. Without consumers, they lose their business. Besides this being 101, do you see how I can use my brain and generate common sense? You can do it too. You just need to knock off the political team spirit garbage.



That's because you have political **** in your ears, Fenton...



If you don't understand how the GOP has used Trickle Down Economics to woo you into an ignorant slumber, then you must have slept through the Great Recession. While banks received their bail out, they refused to push the money down to the Middle Class. Instead, they seized businesses and homes. If all the tax-cuts to the wealthy since Ronald Reagan were supposed to be about allowing the wealthy to create jobs, then we should have been drowning in the jobs during the Great Recession instead of seeing unemployment skyrocket. What we saw were lay-offs, a lack of consumer spending, banks sitting on cash, and a wealthy elite burying their money off shore like squirrels.

My wife is a CPA. She is still trying to work through this Bill for her company. Her company, is angry over some of the crap that benefits the bigger corporations at the expense of smaller companies.

Damn, some rich guy could come along and tell you that smacking you in the face is good for you and you would probably offer him both cheeks.
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Sorry, I just dont buy into the Liberal class warfare mentallity. Im just not nor was ever that naive or gullible.

Demagoguery to me is insulting, but you apparently eat it up.

You think tax and economic policy should be predicated on envy and toxic and devisive Left wing talking points and identity politics.
I dont, nor does anyone else who has a firm grasp on market based economies.
 
Conservative said:
Right any bill that allows people to keep more of what they earn is a problem for the entitlement crowd of which you are probably part of. How does anyone keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family, or the country?
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Because in exchange for "keeping" more of what they earn, they'll spend more on health insurance. And their children will pay back the debt in taxes.

You impotently raged about deficits for eight years under Obama, now you don't give a ****. It's hilarious.
 
Conservative said:
Right any bill that allows people to keep more of what they earn is a problem for the entitlement crowd of which you are probably part of. How does anyone keeping more of what they earn hurt you, your family, or the country?
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See, I've always paid my way. So you know nothing and I don't have to listen to you anymore.
 
The Mark said:
State and local taxes pay for things in the state and locally, which means that federal taxes are not needed for those things.

I assume that is the reason that deductions of those taxes are currently possible (and may be still, even if the tax bill is passed in some form).
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Why would federal taxes be used to pay for state and local needs to begin with? That's the whole problem in a nutshell.

I will give you this. I think property taxes for primary residences should be deductible in full because of their direct affect on the economy as a whole. People paying mortgages provide a cash flow that keeps the economy moving. They also provide a stable work force. I like it when my employees buy houses because it gets them motivated.

That's the one part of this I think this bill got wrong. That, and the AMT and marriage penalty need to be formally eliminated.
 
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