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Trump transition lawyer: Mueller improperly obtained documents in Russia probe

vesper said:
If this report is true, it will only add to the calls for Sessions/Rosenstein to act . Mueller has no business with documents pertaining to lawyer/client conversations. That is definitely over the line.
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"I have no idea what these documents are but they have nothing to do with the investigation."

-A totally non-partisan member of the DP community
 
vesper said:
Did you read the article?
the transition team’s attorney alleges “unlawful conduct” by the career staff at the General Services Administration in handing over transition documents to the special counsel’s office.

Kory Langhofer, the counsel to Trump for America, wrote in the letter that the special counsel’s office is aware that the GSA “did not own or control the records in question.”

But, Langhofer says, Mueller’s team has “extensively used the materials in question, including portions that are susceptible to claims of privilege.”

If this is true then there is a problem!
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"Susceptible to claims of privilege" = not actually privileged. If it was privileged, then it would have been stated outright as being privileged.
 
vesper said:
After what has unfolded the last couple of months, it really is starting to look like a cabal orchestrated with the Obama WH, FBI and DOJ. The Clinton email investigation and the Trump campaign/transition team "Collusion with Russians" narrative have melded into one because the same players were working both at the same time.

If it is found that those at the FBI dressed up that opposition research Trump Dossier as counter intelligence to obtain a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump team, the **** is going to hit the fan.
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I take a certain degree of exception to "a cabal orchestrated with the Obama WH, FBI, and DOJ".

That is a significant amount of bull****.

Every president may change the leadership of any or all of those three systems, but I don't see a wholesale change of mission as likely, at least in terms of the FBI and DOJ - those organizations are large and have many members, whose positions do not automatically shift with the changing political tides.

I'd need to see some significant evidence of them mishandling of justice for partisan reasons before I distrust them when some politician or political type claims they are doing so.

They're just more trustworthy, organizationally and culturally speaking - I mean the internal culture and organisation of those agencies would, I think, tend towards justice over politics.
 
radcen said:
This made me chuckle. :lol:
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Well at least one of us is laughing. I don't find it a damn bit funny. And from all the crap coming to light the last couple of months on how the FBI, DOJ and Obama WH engaged in things, I think regardless of what your political affiliation is it should made you very uncomfortable.
 
vesper said:
At some point you and a lot of others need to look at things objectively and stop blowing everything you don't like off as BS.
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You're just repeating crap you heard on right-wing echo-chambers, and are spouting these conspiracy theories off like they dignify a serious response.
 
Cardinal said:
"Susceptible to claims of privilege" = not actually privileged. If it was privileged, then it would have been stated outright as being privileged.
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How many damn times do I have to write "IF" G-d Almighty.
 
vesper said:
Well at least one of us is laughing. I don't find it a damn bit funny. And from all the crap coming to light the last couple of months on how the FBI, DOJ and Obama WH engaged in things, I think regardless of what your political affiliation is it should made you very uncomfortable.
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Riiight, and let me guess, everything that has come out concerning how involved Russia nationals were in Trumps campaign doesn't concern you at all.
 
vesper said:
How many damn times do I have to write "IF" G-d Almighty.
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"If Vesper took a right on a red light and if it was illegal, then he should get a ticket."

Do you see the multiple problems with that statement?
 
MovingPictures said:
You're just repeating crap you heard on right-wing echo-chambers, and are spouting these conspiracy theories off like they dignify a serious response.
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Actually I have spent a lot of time watching the hearings in Congress and following all stories. My conclusion is something really really stinks.
 
Cardinal said:
"If Vesper took a right on a red light and if it was illegal, then he should get a ticket."

Do you see the multiple problems with that statement?
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Do you see the multiple problems with your statement?
 
The Mark said:
Interesting.

I'm wondering if that lawyer is correct.

Some would depend on the contract Trump/his transition team had with this service provider.
But if the service provider willingly gave the information to the investigation, would the investigation be at fault in any way for accepting it?

Not sure how the nuance and details around that kind of thing work.
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Attorney client protection even applies to emails. Same with doctors.
If they used those emails and violated those terms then the evidence must be thrown out just like any court case.
 
vesper said:
Did you read the article?

The transition team’s attorney alleges “unlawful conduct” by the career staff at the General Services Administration in handing over transition documents to the special counsel’s office.
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Of course I did. Doesn't change my position, however, because I don't believe the information was obtained illegally. It's like Paperview said:

Paperview said:
They are gov't emails -- and they may not have even needed a subpoena, nonetheless:

Jeffrey Cramer, a longtime former federal prosecutor who specialized in white collar cases, echoed that point.

"This is not a problem," he said, referring to the way Mueller's team got a hold of the emails. "The server owner, in this case GSA, properly has the emails and can turn them over if there was a subpoena or court order," in the same way that internet providers and banks can provide emails and records about clients to law enforcement.

More than that, Cramer added, the special counsel's team may not even have needed a subpoena to obtain the emails. An administrative request — a legally authorized and judicially enforceable demand for records issued by a government authority — may have sufficed, he said.

It's unclear which officials the emails belong to and what they contain. But it's likely they will provide a number of new leads for the special counsel to follow. "

Mueller has obtained 'tens of thousands' of Trump transition team emails - Business Insider
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Which gets me right back to this...

Objective Voice said:
If you can't stop the Russia investigation by removing the investigator(s), stop it by discrediting the evidence and the methodology under which its obtained.
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Good Luck with that!
 
vesper said:
Do you see the multiple problems with your statement?
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Yes, because the statement was intended to have multiple problems with it as it was a mirror statement of your own. So if you're able to see multiple problems with my statement, then you're able to see multiple problems with your own.
 
vesper said:
Actually I have spent a lot of time watching the hearings in Congress and following all stories. My conclusion is something really really stinks.
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In what regard, dare I ask?
 
ludin said:
Attorney client protection even applies to emails. Same with doctors.
If they used those emails and violated those terms then the evidence must be thrown out just like any court case.
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Seems like determining whether anything was acquired in an unacceptable way will be yet another court case.

Or at least part of any proceedings.


I find myself wondering if that is precisely why this claim was made - to delay and diffuse focus.
 
Paperview said:
"It's totally unfair that you're using your subpoena power to collect evidence," screamed the Trump desperate defense attorney.
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Sorry but lawyer client privilege cannot be broken even by subpoena it is protected communication.

Any evidence obtain would be obtained illegally no matter who received it or where they received it.
It would be suppressed and thrown out of court.
 
The Mark said:
Seems like determining whether anything was acquired in an unacceptable way will be yet another court case.

Or at least part of any proceedings.


I find myself wondering if that is precisely why this claim was made - to delay and diffuse focus.
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Yes that would be the case. It would be a motion to supress. Filed to a judge. It would be a cabinet chamber meeting more than likely.
 
digsbe said:
Trump transition lawyer: Mueller improperly obtained documents in Russia probe | Fox News

More trouble for the witch hunt. With each day it appears there are more problems and more examples of bias/collusion by the special counsel against President Trump. They may have obtained "evidence" illegally in an overreach of authority.
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Fox News as your cite..... they have gone from credible news organization to getting down in the gutter with the likes of Daily Caller, Brietbart and World nutjob. Fox News is trying to make the news. They are the front line in the assault on Mueller. The fact that the viewers don't see through their propensity to try to make mountains out of molehills speaks volumes on the intelligence, savvy and/or education of their viewers. Sad.

Sorry, but on this particular subject, Fox has zero credibility. We should not take this seriously unless it can be collaborated with a real news organization that is not trying to discredit the Mueller investigation. Don't be played. Produce a real cite for this or move it down the hall to conspiracy theories.
 
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The Mark said:
Interesting.

I'm wondering if that lawyer is correct.

Some would depend on the contract Trump/his transition team had with this service provider.
But if the service provider willingly gave the information to the investigation, would the investigation be at fault in any way for accepting it?

Not sure how the nuance and details around that kind of thing work.
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General Services Administration isn't a "service provider". It's a government agency and part of the Executive Branch.
 
Objective Voice said:
Of course I did. Doesn't change my position, however, because I don't believe the information was obtained illegally. It's like Paperview said:



Which gets me right back to this...



Good Luck with that!
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Once again if it is proved that Mueller has been using documents he shouldn't have privilege due to lawyer/client privilege then it becomes an issue. The big word is IF. The letter has been sent to Congress. If there is something to it, no doubt we will find out about it.
 
vesper said:
Once again if it is proved that Mueller has been using documents he shouldn't have privilege due to lawyer/client privilege then it becomes an issue. The big word is IF. The letter has been sent to Congress. If there is something to it, no doubt we will find out about it.
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If it can be proven that Republicans are committing obstruction of justice, then they should all go to prison.
 
Angelus said:
Surely you jest - people connected to Trump lying?!
Shocked I say - shocked!

:wow::popcorn2:
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Especially lawyers. Who would think that could happen? Lawyers lying...never heard of such a thing!
 
Sounds like Trumps lawyers just found this out last week.

Given how large the volume of emails is, my guess is there's something in the emails Trumps lawyers are aware of they have concerns with the special counsel seeing.

The plot thickens.
 
That awkward moment when you complain that damning emails of yours were illegally obtained after you asked a hostile foreign power to illegally obtain emails.
 
digsbe said:
Trump transition lawyer: Mueller improperly obtained documents in Russia probe | Fox News

More trouble for the witch hunt. With each day it appears there are more problems and more examples of bias/collusion by the special counsel against President Trump. They may have obtained "evidence" illegally in an overreach of authority.
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Of course you realize that doesn't make the evidence untrue. It may not be able to be used in court, but that's something else entirely.

Since you think all the evidence is fabricated, why are you worried that something false may have been illegally obtained?
 
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