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That's right, the President can't obstruct justice

tres borrachos said:
The same Alan Dershowitz who thinks OJ Simpson is innocent and who strongly advocates for gun control and vehemently opposes the Second Amendment and says "The Second Amendment has no place in modern society”. I didn't know he was the new mouthpiece for the right. Or do we just believe him when we agree with his legal opinion?
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I know we all do it but try to stay with the thread.

The Thread:
Trump's personal lawyer claims the President can't obstruct justice - CNNPolitics
 
Geoist said:
We are treading dangerous territory here. Yes, the president has the privilege/power to remove an FBI director for almost reason, but to do so to prevent investigation into him or his allies is grounds for obstruction of justice. I doubt very much our Founders intended presidential powers to be used in a way to stay above the law.
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You forgot the part about the FBI Director being hopelessly partisan in practice.

The FBI has forever been damaged by all this. It's been reduced to the security detail for an entire political party.
 
Cardinal said:
That's all he can do: recommend charges to the DOJ or recommend to Congress to impeach.
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Yep, which means Mueller needs to ssssttttttrrrrrreeeeetttccccchhhhh this out for another year and hope the Democrats flip Congress in the mid-terms.

That's quite obviously the plan. That, and to just muck up the water for four years out of a giant temper tantrum.
 
Erod said:
You forgot the part about the FBI Director being hopelessly partisan in practice.

The FBI has forever been damaged by all this. It's been reduced to the security detail for an entire political party.
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You mean when Comey threw the election to President Trump less than 10 days before the election?

Erod said:
Yep, which means Mueller needs to ssssttttttrrrrrreeeeetttccccchhhhh this out for another year and hope the Democrats flip Congress in the mid-terms.

That's quite obviously the plan. That, and to just muck up the water for four years out of a giant temper tantrum.
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What the hell are you talking about? Republicans are ignoring the checks and balances of government, you know, their constitutionally obligated jobs, because doing so is considered "friendly fire".

If republicans were capable of being responsible, we could have closed this issue by now.
 
Absentglare said:
You mean when Comey threw the election to President Trump less than 10 days before the election?



What the hell are you talking about? Republicans are ignoring the checks and balances of government, you know, their constitutionally obligated jobs, because doing so is considered "friendly fire".

If republicans were capable of being responsible, we could have closed this issue by now.
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You mean while he was helping her destroy emails?

They thought there was no way Trump would win, so they were trying to kill the story before she took the oath.

OOPS!
 
Absentglare said:
You mean when Comey threw the election to President Trump less than 10 days before the election?



What the hell are you talking about? Republicans are ignoring the checks and balances of government, you know, their constitutionally obligated jobs, because doing so is considered "friendly fire".

If republicans were capable of being responsible, we could have closed this issue by now.
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Yup, that twisted trio of the lunatic left/progressives and wanna be socialist are so very reasonable.
 
Erod said:
You mean while he was helping her destroy emails?

They thought there was no way Trump would win, so they were trying to kill the story before she took the oath.

OOPS!
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Just to be clear, you're claiming that Comey was part of a criminal conspiracy to help Clinton...?

How do you reconcile that obviously false claim with his, you know, behavior?
 
Erod said:
Yep, which means Mueller needs to ssssttttttrrrrrreeeeetttccccchhhhh this out for another year and hope the Democrats flip Congress in the mid-terms.

That's quite obviously the plan. That, and to just muck up the water for four years out of a giant temper tantrum.
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The independent counsel investigation of Bill Clinton lasted 4.5 years, and that was a relatively simple matter.

Patience, grasshopper.
 
tres borrachos said:
The same Alan Dershowitz who thinks OJ Simpson is innocent and who strongly advocates for gun control and vehemently opposes the Second Amendment and says "The Second Amendment has no place in modern society”. I didn't know he was the new mouthpiece for the right. Or do we just believe him when we agree with his legal opinion?
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The fact that such a leftist holds such an opinion should give you pause, not an excuse to go after those pointing out what he said.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
Guess what Alan Dershowitz agrees with him.


Alan Dershowitz: 'You cannot charge a president with obstruction of justice for exercising his constitutional power'

Alan Dershowitz: 'You cannot charge a president with obstruction of justice for exercising his constitutional power'

Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz on Monday said President Trump was within his rights as commander in chief when he fired former FBI director James Comey, and warned Democrats trying to take him down on obstruction of justice charges that they won't succeed.

"You cannot charge a president with obstruction of justice for exercising his constitutional power to fire Comey and his constitutional authority to tell the Justice Department who to investigate, who not to investigate. That's what Thomas Jefferson did, that's what Lincoln did, that's what Roosevelt did. We have precedents that clearly establish that.
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"You can't charge a president with a war crime for exercising his constitutional power to command the military. So it's legal for the president to order gassing of civilians."
 
Thelion said:
Trump's personal lawyer claims the President can't obstruct justice - CNNPolitics

>President Donald Trump's personal attorney, John Dowd, claims the President cannot be guilty of obstructing justice, according to an interview with Axios.

"(The) President cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under (the Constitution's Article II) and has every right to express his view of any case," Dowd told Axios.

The new defense comes after a tweet from Trump's account suggested the President knew former White House national security adviser Michael Flynn had lied to the FBI when he was fired in February, raising questions about whether Trump knew about Flynn's lying before pressuring former FBI Director James Comey to let go of inquiries into Russian election meddling.<

Which is why, since Trump DID obstruct justice, he cannot be President.

As the article goes on to say, Nixon tried that same tactic, and it didn't end well for him.
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- Nixon was going to be impeached for obstruction of justice, before he resigned and bailed because his political support was completely eroded.
- Clinton was impeached for obstruction of justice; and Democrats in the Senate let him off the hook.

Trump, like anybody else who breathes oxygen, can be impeached for obstruction of justice. Trump may have spent a life time buying his way out of trouble, but he is not above the law. Of course, there was that one time when God liked teena...er...I mean when God lied too, so....


Besides, the Senate has a history of shrugging, especially Democrats. No Democrat voted guilty for Andrew Johnson (D), and he was acquitted. No Democrat voted guilty for Bill Clinton (D), and he was acquitted. Even with Trump wearing out his welcome among Republicans, does anybody actually think the Republicans will choose country over team? Not this Jarhead.

Marines: God, Country, Corps.

Politicians: Donor, Lobbyist, State, Team, ...........................................Country.
 
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Anthony60 said:
All indications are that Comey was removed because he sucked at his job, so I don't think we need to worry.
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According to Trump, it was related to the investigation. Guy can't keep his big mouth shut.
 
Erod said:
You forgot the part about the FBI Director being hopelessly partisan in practice.
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If he was 'hopelessly partisan' then he wouldn't have dropped the poorly-timed (for Dems) bombshell when he did.
 
Geoist said:
We are treading dangerous territory here. Yes, the president has the privilege/power to remove an FBI director for almost reason, but to do so to prevent investigation into him or his allies is grounds for obstruction of justice. I doubt very much our Founders intended presidential powers to be used in a way to stay above the law.
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They didn't, which is why they created the impeachment process.
 
Deuce said:
"You can't charge a president with a war crime for exercising his constitutional power to command the military. So it's legal for the president to order gassing of civilians."
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Everything you say here is actually, and literally, true.
 
Someone should tell Sessions that the president can't obstruct justice.

IMPEACHMENT TRIAL OF PRESIDENT WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON

Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. President, the Constitution of the United States
requires the Senate to convict and remove the President of the United
States if it is proven that he has committed high crimes while in
office. It has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral
certainty that President William Jefferson Clinton has persisted in a
continuous pattern to lie and obstruct justice.
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https://www.congress.gov/congressio...h":["obstruction+of+justice","sessions"]}&r=1
 
Harshaw said:
Everything you say here is actually, and literally, true.
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Gassing of civilians would literally be murder under the law. The president cannot do this, legally.
 
Geoist said:
Gassing of civilians would literally be murder under the law. The president cannot do this, legally.
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There is no "murder" when it comes to war powers. There is no applicable law against targeting civilians in war. And it would be stupid and self-defeating for there to be such a law, not to mention (most likely) unconstitutional.

(And no, Calley was not convicted of murder because he targeted civilians. He was convicted of murder because he did so in contravention of the rules of engagement.)
 
wolfsgirl said:
Someone should tell Sessions that the president can't obstruct justice.



https://www.congress.gov/congressio...h":["obstruction+of+justice","sessions"]}&r=1
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This is surreal.

I can just imagine President Trump, freaking the **** out about Flynn flipping on him, to which his scared handlers fed him some bull**** about how the president can't break the law because he is the law, which settled his tantrum just enough for him to demand that they go on TV to tell everybody this ... "fact".
 
Deuce said:
"You can't charge a president with a war crime for exercising his constitutional power to command the military. So it's legal for the president to order gassing of civilians."
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Nice try to spin this. If you have a complaint talk with Alan Dershowitz.
Guess that is the talking point to counter Professor Dershowitz?
 
wolfsgirl said:
Someone should tell Sessions that the president can't obstruct justice.



https://www.congress.gov/congressio...h":["obstruction+of+justice","sessions"]}&r=1
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They can impeach the President for obstructing justice - or, because of how impeachment works, any reason at all - but they almost certainly cannot charge a sitting President with a crime.

Different issues, but they've been conflated across the board here.

There are a number of threads snickering about how Dershowitz says you cannot charge a President with obstruction. True but irrelevant, since you can impeach him for obstruction to get him out of office. Once out of office, he could then be charged criminally (if not pardoned). There's no double jeopardy there because impeachment isn't a conviction (even though the senate "convicts" on articles of impeachment). It's a political process with no judicial oversight.



The only thing constraining impeachment is how congress critters bet on public reaction. There is no court review of it. They could have impeached Clinton for wasting a good cuban cigar instead of for perjury, if they chose. They'd just pay at the polls (maybe). But even though the constitution says 'high crime and misdemeanor', there's no Court review that might keep congress in line.

There's no explicit statement in statute or constitution about whether or not the President can be charged criminally while sitting, but all we have points to the opposite.


So yeah, if you have perhaps seen threads noting that Dershowitz said the president cannot be criminally charged with obstruction, those threads are correct but just as irrelevant as Dershowitz's point. It's a way to imply an untruth by stating a carefully tailored truth.
 
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Geoist said:
According to Trump, it was related to the investigation. Guy can't keep his big mouth shut.
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Well, everyone everywhere wanted Comey fired, right up to the second that Trump finally did it. Obama refused, he was afraid it would make him look bad, I guess. He was doing a poor job, and his boss fired him. Sorry, to all the new found Comey supporters.
 
Erod said:
You forgot the part about the FBI Director being hopelessly partisan in practice.
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Lol... Comey is a Republican... who was he being a partisan for?
 
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