Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell steps back Roy Moore criticism

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

I was certain when the story of Roy Moore and child molestation first broke that not only was it not strategically timed to help Jones in any way, but that Republicans would in time come around to support Moore just as they came around to support trump. After the Access Hollywood tape in which trump bragged about committing sexual assault was made public, Republicans condemned and abandoned trump en masse, only to rally behind him as the election neared, and to bury the story of the tape as well as the thirteen women who accused him of sexual assault altogether.

After the election, the excuse for the tape and allegations of sexual assault was often, "People knew who he was when they voted for him. He won," as though an electoral victory constituted a legal and moral exoneration for all past turpitudes. This was also mirrored in the Gianforte incident, in which a House candidate beat up a reporter and likewise experienced complete exoneration through electoral victory in the following days, suffering no censure and certainly not removal by Congress.

As condemnation of Moore by the GOP continues to recede, it's clear that Moore is following the post-Access Hollywood tape trajectory with almost perfect precision.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell stepped back his criticism of embattled Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore with just over a week until the Dec. 12 special election in Alabama.

Asked by ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos on "This Week" Sunday if he believes Roy Moore should be in the Senate, McConnell said, "I'm going to let the people of Alabama make the call."

Earlier in November, McConnell called on Moore to step aside.

"I believe the women, yes," McConnell said to reporters in Kentucky on Nov. 13 about women alleging sexual misconduct by Moore.

Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell steps back Roy Moore criticism - ABC News

MaggieD · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
I was certain when the story of Roy Moore and child molestation first broke that not only was it not strategically timed to help Jones in any way, but that Republicans would in time come around to support Moore just as they came around to support trump. After the Access Hollywood tape in which trump bragged about committing sexual assault was made public, Republicans condemned and abandoned trump en masse, only to rally behind him as the election neared, and to bury the story of the tape as well as the thirteen women who accused him of sexual assault altogether.

After the election, the excuse for the tape and allegations of sexual assault was often, "People knew who he was when they voted for him. He won," as though an electoral victory constituted a legal and moral exoneration for all past turpitudes. This was also mirrored in the Gianforte incident, in which a House candidate beat up a reporter and likewise experienced complete exoneration through electoral victory in the following days, suffering no censure and certainly not removal by Congress.

As condemnation of Moore by the GOP continues to recede, it's clear that Moore is following the post-Access Hollywood tape trajectory with almost perfect precision.

Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell steps back Roy Moore criticism - ABC News

Quote where he asked Ray Moore to step down, please.

Captain Adverse · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
I was certain when the story of Roy Moore and child molestation first broke that not only was it not strategically timed to help Jones in any way, but that Republicans would in time come around to support Moore just as they came around to support trump. After the Access Hollywood tape in which trump bragged about committing sexual assault was made public, Republicans condemned and abandoned trump en masse, only to rally behind him as the election neared, and to bury the story of the tape as well as the thirteen women who accused him of sexual assault altogether.

After the election, the excuse for the tape and allegations of sexual assault was often, "People knew who he was when they voted for him. He won," as though an electoral victory constituted a legal and moral exoneration for all past turpitudes. This was also mirrored in the Gianforte incident, in which a House candidate beat up a reporter and likewise experienced complete exoneration through electoral victory in the following days, suffering no censure and certainly not removal by Congress.

As condemnation of Moore by the GOP continues to recede, it's clear that Moore is following the post-Access Hollywood tape trajectory with almost perfect precision.

Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell steps back Roy Moore criticism - ABC News

Correction: "the story of Roy Moore and (ALLEGED) child molestation first broke." Always best to be accurate.

That's exactly the point. Despite such stories, and every effort to use them to defeat Senator Moore, the Alabama electorate still chose him.

Of course the Republicans in Congress will now dial back the rhetoric, since Moore is duly elected and they have to work with him if they want his vote. They already got their moral points by showing they opposed him before the vote, now they have to deal with reality and show they accept the "people's choice."

Innocent until proven guilty has been my argument all along in every instance either side tries to smear someone they oppose.

If I were an elected representative, I would strive to work with him unless and until any allegations are proven and thus provide grounds for action. :shrug:

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

Captain Adverse said:
Correction: "the story of Roy Moore and (ALLEGED) child molestation first broke." Always best to be accurate.

That's exactly the point. Despite such stories, and every effort to use them to defeat Senator Moore, the Alabama electorate still chose him.

Of course the Republicans in Congress will now dial back the rhetoric, since Moore is duly elected and they have to work with him if they want his vote. They already got their moral points by showing they opposed him before the vote, now they have to deal with reality and show they accept the "people's choice."

Innocent until proven guilty has been my argument all along in every instance your side tries to smear someone you oppose. If I were an elected representative, I would strive to work with him unless and until any allegations are proven and thus provide grounds for action. :shrug:

It highlights the naiveté at best or the disingenuousness at worst of Republicans who claimed a moral high ground because Republican congressional leaders condemned Moore and claimed they might unseat him should he win the election.

It was obvious to anybody who paid attention to events within the last year that such a prediction was laughably false.

And so what if "got their moral points" if they no longer claim to believe the women who accused Moore? If they shrug aside child molestation, then there's no moral points to get.

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

MaggieD said:
Quote where he asked Ray Moore to step down, please.

Why are you asking me to quote that?

MaggieD · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
Why are you asking me to quote that?

Know what? I have absolutely no idea. I reread your post carefully just to be sure I’d lost my mind and find I had. My apologies. Gads!

RetiredUSN · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
It highlights the naiveté at best or the disingenuousness at worst of Republicans who claimed a moral high ground because Republican congressional leaders condemned Moore and claimed they would unseat him should he win election.

It was obvious to anybody who paid attention to events within the last year that such a prediction was laughably false.

And so what if "got their moral points" if they no longer claim to believe the women who accused Moore? If they shrug aside child molestation, then there's no moral points to get.

What a disingenuous post .

The democrat family is chock full of social warriors who are always screaming for women's rights, and meanwhile, Franken still has his seat.

beerftw · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
It highlights the naiveté at best or the disingenuousness at worst of Republicans who claimed a moral high ground because Republican congressional leaders condemned Moore and claimed they might unseat him should he win the election.

It was obvious to anybody who paid attention to events within the last year that such a prediction was laughably false.

And so what if "got their moral points" if they no longer claim to believe the women who accused Moore? If they shrug aside child molestation, then there's no moral points to get.

I think congressional republicans got a dose of reality, that the worst thing they could do was override their voters without proof of his wrongdoing, it would look like the republicans telling their voters they voted wrong and they are rewriting the election results. The only way republicans can get rid of him in short notice without pissing off voters is to prove the allegations true giving them a legitimate reason to kick him out.

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

RetiredUSN said:
The democrat family...

...is currently in the process of pushing Conyers to resign. Franken's career is over. Both will face ethics investigations. We accept this as right. Maybe the wheels of justice and political retribution aren't turning fast enough for you, but unlike with Trump, Moore and Gianforte, they are turning.

How the Democratic party is dealing with Conyers and Franken is glaringly opposite to the Republican Party, who has chosen to stand unapologetically by a sexual assaulter, a child molester and a man who beat up a reporter.

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

beerftw said:
I think congressional republicans got a dose of reality, that the worst thing they could do was override their voters without proof of his wrongdoing, it would look like the republicans telling their voters they voted wrong and they are rewriting the election results. The only way republicans can get rid of him in short notice without pissing off voters is to prove the allegations true giving them a legitimate reason to kick him out.

The walking-back of condemnation of Moore is cementing the pattern that started to form with trump and Gianforte. This is no strategy for dealing with a morally abhorrent human being in their midst. Rather, it's an acceptance that he's going to serve in the Senate with them and a decision to move on.

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

MaggieD said:
Know what? I have absolutely no idea. I reread your post carefully just to be sure I’d lost my mind and find I had. My apologies. Gads!

If it makes you feel any better, your question made me wonder if I had written that in the first post and simply forgot it.

beerftw · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
The walking-back of condemnation of Moore is cementing the pattern that started to form with trump and Gianforte. This is no strategy for dealing with a morally abhorrent human being in their midst. Rather, it's an acceptance that he's going to serve in the Senate with them and a decision to move on.

They have to accept what the people chose, think back to 2016 republicans and democrats tried everything they could to keep trump from getting nominated, down to the election where they thought they could convince the electors to change their votes to keep trump out. They all talked a big game but in the end most backed out, they knew they would doom their own party by backstabbing their voters and leaving the impression democracy only counts when it is who they wanted you to vote for. Overwriting the voters and kicking out elected officials to replace them with favorable ones is banana republic type stuff going on, and I can not understand why anyone would want a banana republic style govt.

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

beerftw said:
They have to accept what the people chose, think back to 2016 republicans and democrats tried everything they could to keep trump from getting nominated, down to the election where they thought they could convince the electors to change their votes to keep trump out. They all talked a big game but in the end most backed out, they knew they would doom their own party by backstabbing their voters and leaving the impression democracy only counts when it is who they wanted you to vote for. Overwriting the voters and kicking out elected officials to replace them with favorable ones is banana republic type stuff going on, and I can not understand why anyone would want a banana republic style govt.

Political expediency is a morally bankrupt excuse for standing unapologetically behind a sexual assaulter, a child molester and a man who beat up a reporter.

beerftw · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
Political expediency is a morally bankrupt excuse for standing unapologetically behind a sexual assaulter, a child molester and a man who beat up a reporter.

One of those is true, the other two are unproven accusations and ones that have fallen apart as the story has inconsistencies, witnesses claim his behavior while other witnesses counter that, and even gloria allred is stepping back her support. What you want is guilty until proven innocent, not innocent until proven guilty, so you want a banana republic style govt combined with a soviet style criminal system of guilty until proven innocent.

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

beerftw said:
One of those is true, the other two are unproven accusations and ones that have fallen apart as the story has inconsistencies, witnesses claim his behavior while other witnesses counter that, and even gloria allred is stepping back her support. What you want is guilty until proven innocent, not innocent until proven guilty, so you want a banana republic style govt combined with a soviet style criminal system of guilty until proven innocent.

I'm not addressing people who are in willful denial. This thread is with concern to Congressional Republicans and the people who credited them for condemning Moore and floating the idea of removing him if elected. It follows the pattern established by Republican reaction to Trump, and outright silence in reaction to Gianforte.

beerftw · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
I'm not addressing people who are in willful denial. This thread is with concern to Congressional Republicans and the people who credited them for condemning Moore and floating the idea of removing him if elected.

Actually you call out willful denial, yet you call the man a child molester just off an accusation, so the only willfull denial is you being willfully in denial of justice, you arleady consider him guilty of a crime, yet fail to understand why others would want innocent until proven guilty.

You would probably have made a great politician during the salem witch hunts, however in a civilized republic, we do not believe in guilty until proven innocent, and we do not override the voters will because we feel like being a banana republic.

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

beerftw said:
Actually you call out willful denial, yet you call the man a child molester just off an accusation, so the only willfull denial is you being willfully in denial of justice, you arleady consider him guilty of a crime, yet fail to understand why others would want innocent until proven guilty.

You would probably have made a great politician during the salem witch hunts, however in a civilized republic, we do not believe in guilty until proven innocent, and we do not override the voters will because we feel like being a banana republic.

Short of a full confession by Moore and Trump, I accept that there's no amount of evidence that could convince you of their guilt. And even if they did confess, then they would immediately enter into the same basket as Gianforte, who didn't even earn a shrug from you. That's why this thread isn't about those in willful denial, but how Republicans come to rally behind morally reprehensible candidates they once loudly condemned.

beerftw · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
Short of a full confession by Moore and Trump, I accept that there's no amount of evidence that could convince you of their guilt. And even if they did confess, then they would immediately enter into the same basket as Gianforte, who didn't even earn a shrug from you. That's why this thread isn't about those in willful denial, but how Republicans come to rally behind morally reprehensible candidates they once loudly condemned.

But you call him morally reprehensible which would imply you consider him guilty already, which runs back to the same argument. The argument boils down to guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty, you seem to side with the prior while the gop sided with the latter. Gianforte is an entirely different subject as what he did is not under question, but the people chose him anyways, whereas moore has conflicting witnesses saying he did or he did not, and even witnesses that nearly debunk the claims of the main accuser.

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

beerftw said:
Gianforte is an entirely different subject as what he did is not under question, but the people chose him anyways,

[bold mine]

That harks back to the Republican defense I stated in the OP, which treats electoral victory as exoneration for past turpitudes. That too is morally bankrupt.

apdst · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
It highlights the naiveté at best or the disingenuousness at worst of Republicans who claimed a moral high ground because Republican congressional leaders condemned Moore and claimed they might unseat him should he win the election.

It was obvious to anybody who paid attention to events within the last year that such a prediction was laughably false.

And so what if "got their moral points" if they no longer claim to believe the women who accused Moore? If they shrug aside child molestation, then there's no moral points to get.

Why haven't the Democrats forced Franken and Conyers out of Congress?

Cardinal · Dec 3, 2017

apdst said:
Why haven't the Democrats forced Franken and Conyers out of Congress?

They are being forced out. Slowly, to be sure, but they're doing it. This is in stark contrast to the Republican Party who made a conscious decision to stand behind a sexual predator and a violent assaulter, and is now in the process of rallying behind a child molester.

apdst · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
They are being forced out. Slowly, to be sure, but they're doing it. This is in stark contrast to the Republican Party who made a conscious decision to stand behind a sexual predator and a violent assaulter, and is now in the process of rallying behind a child molester.

Yeah, whatever. :lamo

That's a joke!

beerftw · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
[bold mine]

That harks back to the Republican defense I stated in the OP, which treats electoral victory as exoneration for past turpitudes. That too is morally bankrupt.

Electoral win does not mean exoneration, but you keep proving my point, you want someone considered guilty until proven innocent, the western world does not agree with you, if you have that mindset north korea or the middle east or china may be for you, here rational people do not call for someone to be hanged or dragged through the mud off accusations other than hyper partisans.

Chomsky · Dec 3, 2017

beerftw said:
They have to accept what the people chose, think back to 2016 republicans and democrats tried everything they could to keep trump from getting nominated, down to the election where they thought they could convince the electors to change their votes to keep trump out. They all talked a big game but in the end most backed out, they knew they would doom their own party by backstabbing their voters and leaving the impression democracy only counts when it is who they wanted you to vote for. Overwriting the voters and kicking out elected officials to replace them with favorable ones is banana republic type stuff going on, and I can not understand why anyone would want a banana republic style govt.

Exactly.

McConnel has little choice but to accept the will of the voters, as it should be.

He does have choice however, from the point of the election onward, if Moore were to do some additional abhorrent activity.

joG · Dec 3, 2017

Cardinal said:
I was certain when the story of Roy Moore and child molestation first broke that not only was it not strategically timed to help Jones in any way, but that Republicans would in time come around to support Moore just as they came around to support trump. After the Access Hollywood tape in which trump bragged about committing sexual assault was made public, Republicans condemned and abandoned trump en masse, only to rally behind him as the election neared, and to bury the story of the tape as well as the thirteen women who accused him of sexual assault altogether.

After the election, the excuse for the tape and allegations of sexual assault was often, "People knew who he was when they voted for him. He won," as though an electoral victory constituted a legal and moral exoneration for all past turpitudes. This was also mirrored in the Gianforte incident, in which a House candidate beat up a reporter and likewise experienced complete exoneration through electoral victory in the following days, suffering no censure and certainly not removal by Congress.

As condemnation of Moore by the GOP continues to recede, it's clear that Moore is following the post-Access Hollywood tape trajectory with almost perfect precision.

Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell steps back Roy Moore criticism - ABC News

I agree fully with you that being elected should not and does not protect you from criminal prosecution.
I no longer follow the many sexual allegations against anyone with power and pants. What is the situation with regarding evidence and all that?

Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell steps back Roy Moore criticism

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