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Trump breaks silence on Flynn

Paperview said:
That's the new "popcorn" phrase Rush and some in the media are tossing out lately about this. The dutiful cult members are repeating it over and over now. Good little members.
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I think I like alternative crimes better!


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Cardinal said:
*Sigh*. Okay.

Flynn lies to FBI. This is a Federal crime.
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Trump fires Flynn for lying to the FBI. Trump was aware of the crime when he fired him.
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Trump pressures Comey to drop investigation into Flynn.
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Comey doesn't drop investigation.
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Trump fires Comey.
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Obstruction of justice.


The missing component before was intent (mens rea). Now we have that.
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You left out the most important information.

There absolutely was no obstruction of justice, Flynn was charged and plead guilty!
Flynn was charged with lying to the FBI. Not collusion with the Russians.
For months and months all we heard was "collusion" with the Russians. #Fail
 
Athanasius68 said:
I understand what you are saying just happened. I think you are jumping the gun.
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That depends on what you think I'm saying.

If I said that Trump is going to be impeached right now, that would be jumping the gun. If, however, I said that Congress now has official grounds for removing Trump from office, that statement would be just plain boringly accurate.

Since I made the latter statement and not the former, I am not jumping the gun.
 
Cardinal said:
I certainly didn't mean to imply that the current Congress would impeach him (there's that whole "Republican majority" thing), but should be they disposed, they could pull the trigger right now.
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I'd be willing to wager that demo's wouldn't do such even if they were in power right now....There's nothing there, and they know it....

"It appears the Democrats have all but conceded that media hype about Russian collusion with the Trump campaign isn’t backed up by even an ounce of truth.

An article on political website The Intercept by award-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald was quoted widely in the media recently wherein Greenwald stated that “key Democratic officials are clearly worried about the expectations [regarding Trump-Russia collusion] that have been purposely stoked and are now trying to tamp them down. Many of them tried to signal that the beliefs the base has been led to adopt have no basis in reason or evidence.”

Greenwald went on to call the Trump-Russia story a “fact-free conspiracy” and quoted at length globalist cheerleader Michael Morell, former acting head of the CIA for President Obama and one of the most prominent public officials to endorse Hillary Clinton for president in 2016. (Political watchers may remember Morell loudly calling for the death of aides to Vladimir Putin in an interview last August with PBS’ Charlie Rose.)

“On the question of the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians here, there’s smoke, but there’s no fire at all,” Morell admitted, adding, “There’s no little campfire; there’s no little candle; there’s no spark. And there’s a lot of people looking for it.”

Democrats Admit Trump-Russia Collusion Is Fake (Finally) |
 
Cardinal said:
He didn't "perjure" himself, but he definitely lied to the American public about his reason for firing Flynn. Several times, actually. But lying to the American public is least of his concerns now. Now there's a legitimate reason to impeach him. Violations of the emoluments clause would have worked, but an all-out, in-your-face example of obstruction of justice will do nicely.
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What did you make of Obama refusing to allow the release of documents in the Fast and Furious investigation?
 
Athanasius68 said:
So Trump fires Flynn because he knows that he has lied to the FBI.

Then, some months later, he fires Comey.

Its obstruction because the objective was to stop the investigation into Flynn.
But we know the investigation didnt end when Comey was fired. Nor did Trump order it ended.

Tough to see the obstruction.
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You don't actually have to stop the investigation to be guilty of obstruction. All you have to do is attempt to impede it.
 
Erod said:
Or in this case, investigate for the sake of investigating so that maybe you might find something one day that you can fabricate into charges even though those things have been done every day by American governments for hundreds of years.It's childish.
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Jeff Sessions's deputy is the one that appointed a special counsel, it's a Republican administration investigation, and Mueller is a Republicans.
Furthermore, if Trump had not appeared to violate that law as he fired Comey, he probably could have avoided half the mess.

No Erod, you know full well that Trump is Trump's won worst enemy. Blaming it on dems who have no power and didn't appoint special counsel and didn't fire Comey under those circumstances, etc., is just absurd.
 
j-mac said:
So, why aren't they pulling the trigger? Pfft. you or the Trump haters in Congress have NOTHING.
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The GOP will never impeach its own. They're too corrupt.
 
j-mac said:
I'd be willing to wager that demo's wouldn't do such even if they were in power right now....There's nothing there, and they know it....
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You seem to be from a parallel earth where Nixon was never President.

j-mac said:
"It appears the Democrats...
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...are not the topic of this thread." That's what you meant to say, right?
 
Common Sense 1 said:
You left out the most important information.

There absolutely was no obstruction of justice, Flynn was charged and plead guilty!
Flynn was charged with lying to the FBI. Not collusion with the Russians.
For months and months all we heard was "collusion" with the Russians. #Fail
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He lied about contacts with the Russians.
 
Cardinal said:
You seem to be from a parallel earth where Nixon was never President.



...are not the topic of this thread." That's what you meant to say, right?
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LOL, hardly....I get it though, for your illusion of the 'high ground' to work here can't have people looking at your motives can we...How sad.
 
Cardinal said:
...not being the topic of this thread? I agree. He's not the topic of this thread.
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I predict that your obstruction of justice charge against Trump will go just about as well as the obstruction of justice charge went against Obama.

No, Obama isn't the topic of this thread, but you can learn a lot from paying attention to history.
 
Well...lets see where your chain breaks down for me.

Cardinal said:
*Sigh*. Okay.

Flynn lies to FBI. This is a Federal crime.
↓
Trump fires Flynn for lying to the FBI. Trump was aware of the crime when he fired him.
↓
Trump pressures Comey to drop investigation into Flynn.
↓
Comey doesn't drop investigation.
↓
Trump fires Comey.
↓
Obstruction of justice.

The missing component before was intent (mens rea). Now we have that.
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Okay, let me break this down.

So Trump finds out in January 2017 that Flynn had "Russian Contacts." White House was warned Flynn could be blackmailed by Russia - CNNPolitics

Flynn had lied to Vice-President Pence about such contacts.

Comey — who is widely known for keeping meticulous records — wrote the memo on Feb. 14, the day after Flynn resigned following reports that he misled Vice President Mike Pence about his conversations with Russia's ambassador to the United States, the sources told NBC News.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...mp-urged-him-drop-flynn-investigation-n760471

Flynn resigned on 02/13/17. Flynn resigns amid controversy over Russia contacts - CNNPolitics

Comey writes a memo about a conversation he had with Trump a day after Flynn resigned, on 02/14/17, indicating the President asking "I hope you can let this go" regarding Flynn and the Russia investigation.

Mr. Comey wrote the memo detailing his conversation with the president immediately after the meeting, which took place the day after Mr. Flynn resigned...
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/...html?_r=0&utm_source=nl-politics-daily-051617

In May 2017 he fired Comey, three months after the alleged conversation. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/us/politics/james-comey-fired-fbi.html

There were several reasons Trump fired Comey, none appear to have involved Flynn:

Mueller Has Early Draft of Trump Letter Giving Reasons for Firing Comey.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html

IMO the facts indicate Trump's actions were not of a man who was worried about treason and collusion being exposed...it was knowing the whole issue was crap and wanting it over with so he could get on with his business.

So while he may have asked for Comey to let Flynn slide...Flynn's contacts were his own business, and with his resignation Trump felt there was nothing else to do with allegations he himself was involved is any collusion.

That's how I see your train of thought being derailed.
 
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Deuce said:
You don't actually have to stop the investigation to be guilty of obstruction. All you have to do is attempt to impede it.
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That isnt quite the case when it comes to the president. The investigation occurs under his authority. He does have the right, the authority, to stop an investigation.

The investigation did not end with the firing of Comey. Nor did Trump order it ended.
 
j-mac said:
Yep, which is dumb, considering nothing was illegal.
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Oh, you are personally familiar with the conversations, eh?
 
Athanasius68 said:
That isnt quite the case when it comes to the president. The investigation occurs under his authority. He does have the right, the authority, to stop an investigation.

The investigation did not end with the firing of Comey. Nor did Trump order it ended.
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Presidential authority over investigations doesn't cover obstruction of justice.
 
j-mac said:
Yep, which is dumb, considering nothing was illegal.
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Yes, committing the felony of lying to the FBI is dumb. Knowingly firing Flynn for committing a Federal crime, then firing Comey for not dropping the investigation into Flynn, is also dumb. And then admitting to all of this on Twitter is also very dumb. But at the end of the day, dumb is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.
 
Cardinal said:
Yes, committing the felony of lying to the FBI is dumb. Knowingly firing Flynn for committing a Federal crime, then firing Comey for not dropping the investigation into Flynn, is also dumb. And then admitting to all of this on Twitter is also very dumb. But at the end of the day, dumb is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.
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:doh So much fail....smh
 
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