2nd woman accuses Sen. Al Franken of inappropriate touching

Cardinal said:

If somebody accused me of copping a feel of a woman's butt, I wouldn't respond, "Gee, I don't remember that particular occasion," because the answer would be "No way did I do that!" If, however, I knew that I was the kind of person to do that type of thing, then I might indeed try to search back in my memory for whether or not I copped a feel of that woman's butt.

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I thought the same exact thing.

Cardinal said:

The notion that one false accusation discredits all the other women's accusations is rather grotesque, and it's even more grotesque that this notion has come to be accepted as common wisdom in the public consciousness.

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Concur. That, however, is where we are at. People like simple narratives that reinforce what they already believe, or want to believe. If it is tied to a campaign of deliberately leveraging false narratives... :shrug:

MaggieD said:

Men will never be less accessible to women.

There’s an old joke... I’ll just give you the punchline. Lucy said it to Charlie Brown. “With one of THESE, I can get all of THOSE I want.”

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Wow you are smug about it. Whether you realize it ir not men have already begun losing interest in women who overvalue themselves.

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cAPSLOCK said:

How do you think his security detail would have reacted to that? Power is what he is abusing.

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Before or after the woman shouted out "Honey, he grabbed by ass!" and then slapped him. And by that time the husband would figure out what was happening and would be confronting Franken as well. Security detail isn't going to do anything but tell the couple to move along.

trouble13 said:

Wow you are smug about it. Whether you realize it ir not men have already begun losing interest in women who overvalue themselves.

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I’m not smug about it. It’s a JOKE! But, as with much humor, therein lies some truth. I am not a woman who over-values herself. But what I can tell? Is that strong, confident women make you a just a bit uncomfortable. Not a criticism. Just an amateur observation. And perhaps I am wrong..

Please tell me you’re not 13.

Cardinal said:

If somebody accused me of copping a feel of a woman's butt, I wouldn't respond, "Gee, I don't remember that particular occasion," because the answer would be a resounding "No way did I do that!" If, however, I knew that I was the kind of person to do that type of thing, then I might indeed try to search back in my memory for whether or not I copped a feel of that woman's butt.

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Franken is sensitive to not calling her a liar. He said he has thousands of people ask to take pics with him and doesn't remember the incident. He may have brushed up against her accidentally and she remembered and he didn't. It happens all the time on the subway.

The story is suspicious since the woman's husband was right there. I don't know anyone who would knowingly do that with a husband present. In any case, I think we need to lighten up on this stuff.

MTAtech said:

Franken is sensitive to not calling her a liar. He said he has thousands of people ask to take pics with him and doesn't remember the incident. He may have brushed up against her accidentally and she remembered and he didn't. It happens all the time on the subway.

The story is suspicious since the woman's husband was right there. I don't know anyone who would knowingly do that with a husband present. In any case, I think we need to lighten up on this stuff.

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Nobody is going to throw their Senatorial career away for fear of besmirching the honor of a false accuser. That passes as much logical muster as "Her accusation can't be true because it happened forty years ago." Your argument is also a perfect mirror of the Right's rationale in defending Trump by forgetting the very basic power dynamic that exists when a non-powerful victim accuses a powerful man of assault (although they conveniently re-remember the existence of that power dynamic when discussing the consensual relationship between Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky).

MaggieD said:

According to the link, she did tell her husband. But I’d say this, the thrill to AF would have been that her husband WAS right there. I don’t fault her husband or her for not responding. And, if true, don’t blame her for stepping up now.

Each one of these revelations sends a powerful message to powerful men. Stop that ****!” Every woman out there knows it goes on. And, frankly, even if some of these allegations are NOT true? They still serve a purpose. Men have been put on notice.

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Let's not call them "men", because that isn't manly. And, as a man, that doesn't apply to me, I'm not on notice for anything, since that's not in my make up. Something along the lines of "degenerates" sounds more accurate to me.

I give the women making accusations the benefit of the doubt 99% of the time. Most men are guilty of some form of sexual harassment, even if it's just repeated unwanted advances. That's still bad. I volunteered for the Franken campaign and I fully support an ethics investigation. Groping a woman while she's asleep isn't funny. If Franken were to resign or if he got the boot, I wouldn't shed a single tear.

All that said, I'm very skeptical of this particular claim. I don't know about other states, but in Minnesota the state fair is packed for the entire week. Groping a woman for 5-10 seconds - especially when you're a celebrity - is not going to go unnoticed. I have to echo Franken's statement that he feels bad if she felt he crossed a line and I also hate to insinuate for a moment that this woman is lying. Still, she's smiling in the picture, no look of horror, husband took the picture, surrounded by a hundred thousand people... I don't know. There's good reason to call for Franken's resignation, just not over this. I'm not formally quoting Maggie but she got one thing correct: men need to stop this crap right now. I've done reflecting of my own and I said something to a young lady when I was in college that I feel terrible about now. Even if that's all you've ever done (message to men) think about it. Regret it. Stop it. Move on. Treat women with dignity.

Stay inside, the weather report calls for a cold day tomorrow with am 80% chance of hoards of perverted men sexually violating innocent women.

MaggieD said:

I’m not smug about it. It’s a JOKE! But, as with much humor, therein lies some truth. I am not a woman who over-values herself. But what I can tell? Is that strong, confident women make you a just a bit uncomfortable. Not a criticism. Just an amateur observation. And perhaps I am wrong..

Please tell me you’re not 13.

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If thats your idea of a joke you have an offendive sense of humor.

The lesson your teaching men is that we should not care when a woman is a victim of abuse because your making it abundantly clear that you think its ok for a man to be victimized by abusive women.

I dont have a problem with strong confident women. I have a problem with people like yourself that condone women weaponizing their sexuality.

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vesper said:

You know what I find strange about this story? It isn't that I find the behavior hard to believe but that a woman getting her picture taken with Franken by her HUSBAND while Franken squeezes her butt cheek and didn't say anything to her husband while it was happening. The picture should not have been of her posing with Franken but rather her slapping Franken in the face.

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You see, out of all the questions I have seen pop up. I like this one the best, because you are actually raising a point.

I honestly don't know, maybe the fact was that it surprised her. Or she didn't want her husband to tear old Al in half like a cheap phone book.

There could be a number of reasons, maybe she liked it at the time. Though in recent history, as with several of the allegations we see come forward on college campuses. She only later changed her mind about the whole encounter after the fact.

What would you suspect?

Oborosen said:

You see, out of all the questions I have seen pop up. I like this one the best, because you are actually raising a point.

I honestly don't know, maybe the fact was that it surprised her. Or she didn't want her husband to tear old Al in half like a cheap phone book.

There could be a number of reasons, maybe she liked it at the time. Though in recent history, as with several of the allegations we see come forward on college campuses. She only later changed her mind about the whole encounter after the fact.

What would you suspect?

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Maybe decades after the fact.

Maybe her opinion on the matter charges as her needs do.

Hawkeye10 said:

Maybe decades after the fact.

Maybe her opinion on the matter charges as her needs do.

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possibly, but there is no real way of knowing that at this point.

Anthony60 said:

Let's not call them "men", because that isn't manly. And, as a man, that doesn't apply to me, I'm not on notice for anything, since that's not in my make up. Something along the lines of "degenerates" sounds more accurate to me.

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You know what I neglected in my post? To include men and WOMEN. Your suggestion we call them degenerates works for me. Much better.

trouble13 said:

If thats your idea of a joke you have an offendive sense of humor.

The lesson your teaching men is that we should not care when a woman is a victim of abuse because your making it abundantly clear that you think its ok for a man to be victimized by abusive women.

I dont have a problem with strong confident women. I have a problem with people like yourself that condone women weaponizing their sexuality.

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Could you kindly take your focus from ME and put it on the subject of this thread?

Another poster pointed out I only referred to men. Very short-sighted of me... ironic as well. I personally know of two women who positively without doubt sexually assaulted and harassed two male subordinates even to the point that their families’ were effected. How I could have temporarily forgotten these two incidents shows me my own bias on this subject... probably because of my personal experience with being a victim. (As most women have...)

I don’t understand how my opinion condones women weaponizing sexuality. I don’t even understand what that means.

MaggieD said:

Could you kindly take your focus from ME and put it on the subject of this thread?

Another poster pointed out I only referred to men. Very short-sighted of me... ironic as well. I personally know of two women who positively without doubt sexually assaulted and harassed two male subordinates even to the point that their families’ were effected. How I could have temporarily forgotten these two incidents shows me my own bias on this subject... probably because of my personal experience with being a victim. (As most women have...)

I don’t understand how my opinion condones women weaponizing sexuality. I don’t even understand what that means.

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He's just being ridiculous.

MaggieD said:

I’m not smug about it. It’s a JOKE! But, as with much humor, therein lies some truth. I am not a woman who over-values herself. But what I can tell? Is that strong, confident women make you a just a bit uncomfortable. Not a criticism. Just an amateur observation. And perhaps I am wrong..

Please tell me you’re not 13.

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How dare you make a joke. Jokes aren't allowed here!

trouble13 said:

Apparently you do think they should



As pointed out earlier by another. The only thing your accomplishing by alienating men is making men less accessible to women.

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And we all know, men can get along just fine without women.
Also, maybe women would be better off without those particular men.

Cardinal said:

Nobody is going to throw their Senatorial career away for fear of besmirching the honor of a false accuser. That passes as much logical muster as "Her accusation can't be true because it happened forty years ago." Your argument is also a perfect mirror of the Right's rationale in defending Trump by forgetting the very basic power dynamic that exists when a non-powerful victim accuses a powerful man of assault (although they conveniently re-remember the existence of that power dynamic when discussing the consensual relationship between Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky).

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And the non-consensual ones like Paula Jones, and Juanita Broderick, and Kathleen Willey, and Elizabeth Gracen, and . . .

Keep in mind, Democrat hypocrisy on that - and it is EXTREME - is not dissimilar from Republican hypocrisy when it comes to "family values." It's worse for Democrats to be caught in these things because they spend so much energy not only on preaching, but also on accusing Republicans of (at the very least) not caring about it.

MaggieD said:

Could you kindly take your focus from ME and put it on the subject of this thread?

Another poster pointed out I only referred to men. Very short-sighted of me... ironic as well. I personally know of two women who positively without doubt sexually assaulted and harassed two male subordinates even to the point that their families’ were effected. How I could have temporarily forgotten these two incidents shows me my own bias on this subject... probably because of my personal experience with being a victim. (As most women have...)

I don’t understand how my opinion condones women weaponizing sexuality. I don’t even understand what that means.

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I was not the one who made it persona. You did that when you misscharaterized the particular women i was referring too as strong confident women that i have a problem with and how i have the intelect of a 13yr old. Refrain from those tyoe comments and i will too.

What im trying to discuss is why you think its something we should toerate when a woman falsely accuses a man of something he did not do.

To refresh your memory you said this and when i challenged you on it you doubled down on it.

MaggieD said:

While I do agree with you, and I know full well that some of these allegations are false, UNFORTUNATELY their falseness is very difficult to prove. And while someone is trying to do that, and what all that entails, the message is out there loud and clear. We can’t prevent false allegations. They might as well be put to good use.

Maybe it’s a bit of payback for all those hundreds of years when a man could simply say, and quite often did, “It isn’t mine.”

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Can you maybe now that you discovered your own bias maybe rethink your position?

We have shared many exchanges on this board and i like you very much but i find yours and many others attitude of innocent men being punished for the sins of others horrific. That is what i mean by weaponizing your sexuality. Your saying its acceptable for accusing a man of being inappropiate as if its some sort of privilege of being femine.








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trouble13 said:

I was not the one who made it persona. You did that when you misscharaterized the particular women i was referring too as strong confident women that i have a problem with and how i have the intelect of a 13yr old. Refrain from those tyoe comments and i will too.

What im trying to discuss is why you think its something we should toerate when a woman falsely accuses a man of something he did not do.

To refresh your memory you said this and when i challenged you on it you doubled down on it.

Can you maybe now that you discovered your own bias maybe rethink your position?

We have shared many exchanges on this board and i like you very much but i find yours and many others attitude of innocent men being punished for the sins of others horrific. That is what i mean by weaponizing your sexuality. Your saying its acceptable for accusing a man of being inappropiate as if its some sort of privilege of being feminine.

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First, my apologies. I miscommunicated a couple of things. The strong woman thing was how I thought you might be relating to me. The Age comment was because I thought you just might be younger and then noticed your user name. Again, my apologies.

We absolutely should not tolerate false accusations. It is almost impossible to know if they’re false which is part of the problem. Being immediately suspicious of women telling the truth by discounting them and digging into THEIR past, as a sloppy example, has a chilling effect on OTHER real victims stepping forward.

Your last sentence is your incorrect assumption.

Again, apologies.

MaggieD said:

First, my apologies. I miscommunicated a couple of things. The strong woman thing was how I thought you might be relating to me. The Age comment was because I thought you just might be younger and then noticed your user name. Again, my apologies.

We absolutely should not tolerate false accusations. It is almost impossible to know if they’re false which is part of the problem. Being immediately suspicious of women telling the truth by discounting them and digging into THEIR past, as a sloppy example, has a chilling effect on OTHER real victims stepping forward.

Your last sentence is your incorrect assumption.

Again, apologies.

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All good mags. We are not always gonna agree on everything and if we did what fun would that be?

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