• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

ABC: Trump admin. to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa

ecofarm said:
Two comments on that. Money cannot make up for population control. Ultimately, sustainable populations is an ecologic issue without monetary solution; there is no alternative to culling. Trophies themselves account for little if any of the hunt price. The villagers, or anyone else, could care less about taking animal parts, they're of no value to the village. After all, can't sell ivory.


Trophies will not increase hunting or the price of individual hunts. There's no value added, for locals, by allowing trophies. What trophies will do is open the black market. Before, there was no way to export ivory. No way to transport it. No way to sell it. No way to even have it. All of that is illegal. The reason that market was eliminated was to reduce poaching. When someone cannot gain from poaching, what's the point?

Trophies will increase poaching by opening the market. When goods flow legally, there is opportunity for fake trophy permits, piggy-backing and other methods of transporting and selling illegally obtained ivory. Will the increase in poaching be significant? That remains to be seen. Are we gonna take that risk so that someone can have a trophy? Looks like it.
Click to expand...

I hear you, and I would share the same concerns...my comment was more directed towards the folks who think there should be no hunt at all. If it is well thought out, though, I think trophies could be easily managed, and drive added value, or ROI, to the hunt. Simply creating a registry of each trophy (wouldn't be that large, given the cost to hunt trophy animals) coming from an endangered species would enable us to identify legitimately acquired trophies. Adding a hefty trophy fee would route more money into conservation / protection, as well as into local villages. The important thing is to make it work FOR conservation FIRST.

Of course, that's in my perfect world...hehe...we'll see how it rolls out. :)
 
prometeus said:
Making ignorant comments about things you clearly do not understand is, well lets just say uneducated.
Click to expand...
It is what is commonly called an opinion. We all have one.
 
Things in Zimbabwe aren't going so good right now...I doubt they care what trump is babbling over "trophy hunting"....Still if these ass hole hunters go and get caught up or killed in a civil war...That is a good thing I suppose
 
MTAtech said:
[h=1]Trump admin. to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa[/h]
So, it will be easier to import endangered species trophies. We will be able to point to them and tell our grandchildren that there were once animals called lions and elephants.

This policy reversal is indefensible and is only being done to undo an Obama rule.
Click to expand...

You realize this changes nothing? You abide by foreign law and hunting laws. All this does is allow you to bring back a dead animal
 
Aristaeus said:
Unethical doesn't mean inaccurate. The ethical aspect appears to revolve around the consent of the patient, and not the accuracy of such a diagnosis.
Click to expand...

No, the ethical aspect is about diagnosing someone you've never met.
 
dobieg said:
Bleh


I'm a pretty big hunter and try not to criticize how anyone else hunts but I have a real problem with elephants. Shooting a slow moving, highly intelligent animal as big as a barn down at the only watering hole within 50 miles is not hunting.


Not a fan of this at all.
Click to expand...

Awful as it is, legal hunting of elephants controls their population, ensures their habitat doesn't shrink even more, and funds the local economy as well as anti-poaching efforts.

There's no need to import trophies, however - the fewer available avenues for poached carcasses, the better.
 
upsideguy said:
Trump is a sociopath. When will our leaders stand up and assert 25th amendment remedies? To paraphrase Conde Rice, "do we want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud?"

The man has to go. He is the biggest existential threat to our democracy since the civil war.
Click to expand...

No, the biggest threat to our republic and Constitution are progressive who whine, cry and stomp their feet, because they didn't get their way.
 
American said:
No, the biggest threat to our republic and Constitution are progressive who whine, cry and stomp their feet, because they didn't get their way.
Click to expand...

The "stomping" I'd like to see is a Bull Elephant on Donald Jr's ass
 
Saladin4 said:
The "stomping" I'd like to see is a Bull Elephant on Donald Jr's ass
Click to expand...

Harming people is morally superior to harming animals? Trophy hunting is barbaric, and I will stand behind that, although I understand the notion of conservation. Wanting harm done to human beings? C'mon now.
 
Lovebug said:
Harming people is morally superior to harming animals? Trophy hunting is barbaric, and I will stand behind that, although I understand the notion of conservation. Wanting harm done to human beings? C'mon now.
Click to expand...

Human Being?.....Donald Trump Jr?......Hardly
 
This makes me so angry that I literally have no words. Elephants are intelligent mammals. Killing them for "sport" is repugnant and inhumane. People who want to hunt elephants for sport should be taken out to the desert and shot.
 
Lovebug said:
Harming people is morally superior to harming animals? Trophy hunting is barbaric, and I will stand behind that, although I understand the notion of conservation. Wanting harm done to human beings? C'mon now.
Click to expand...

Have you seen Antifa; same with Progressives.
 
Saladin4 said:
Say what??????...Antifa is hunting Elephants?...Is this what these Russian Fake News Trolls are putting out today?
Click to expand...

Violent group, kind of like you're promoting.
 
OlNate said:
This.



It's not something I would ever be interested in participating in, and it's likely not anything I could ever afford, but I support the hunt...and, believe it or not, so does the WWF:

| WWF

From the article:
Click to expand...

I did examine your link to the WWF and see no mention of trophy hunting and elephants. Trophy hunting was considered successful for snow leopards in Aisa and Black Rhinos in Africa at one time. There is another page on WWF specifically speaking of elephants and I see no mention of the benefits of trophy hunting:

WWF African Elephant Programme | WWF

I think sometimes there is a need to manage the number and range of wild animals, but the idea that rich Americans should do that for sport makes me sick to my stomach. The picture of our first son, with his little knife still in his hand holding the tail of an animal more majestic that he could ever hope to become, with a dumb expression of LOOK AT ME is repulsive.
 
MTAtech said:
[h=1]Trump admin. to reverse ban on elephant trophies from Africa[/h]
So, it will be easier to import endangered species trophies. We will be able to point to them and tell our grandchildren that there were once animals called lions and elephants.

This policy reversal is indefensible and is only being done to undo an Obama rule.
Click to expand...

Why do I sense he's only doing this because it's an Obama thing? Needs to keep the Suckers stimulated. He has nothing substantial to point to.
 
JMR said:
I did examine your link to the WWF and see no mention of trophy hunting and elephants. Trophy hunting was considered successful for snow leopards in Aisa and Black Rhinos in Africa at one time. There is another page on WWF specifically speaking of elephants and I see no mention of the benefits of trophy hunting:

WWF African Elephant Programme | WWF

I think sometimes there is a need to manage the number and range of wild animals, but the idea that rich Americans should do that for sport makes me sick to my stomach. The picture of our first son, with his little knife still in his hand holding the tail of an animal more majestic that he could ever hope to become, with a dumb expression of LOOK AT ME is repulsive.
Click to expand...

Well, no, they are pretty general, so one would assume they are talking about trophy hunting in general. And don't get me wrong, this is nothing I would ever participate in myself, the idea of travelling around the world to shoot at elephants isn't really on my bucket list. But, in many cases the animals selected for the hunt are either old, or problem elephants that are probably going to end up shot by locals for ruining their crops. And, many hunters are willing to go after those animals, vs. insisting upon shooting one in more idyllic settings, so it's give and take.

I don't disagree with you on not being personally aligned...I'm an animal lover, I can't sit through those documentaries that get too graphic about poaching practices, I don't even really like watching a lion take down a gazelle on nature shows...hehe... But, after learning about the positive impact that this hunt has on conservation efforts, I guess I'd rather it happen than not...until there's some other way to replace the funds and get local buy in. Without those pictures of dumb rich folks it's just going to go to the poachers and the locals. You can't exactly tell someone in a country you don't live in not to shoot the animal that's digging up their back yard and destroying their livelihood. Since animals are going to die anyway, might as well make their deaths pay for the conservation of their relatives.

I know that sounds super harsh, I feel a little gross saying it, if there are other solutions I'd be open to hearing them.
 
pillars said:
This makes me so angry that I literally have no words. Elephants are intelligent mammals. Killing them for "sport" is repugnant and inhumane. People who want to hunt elephants for sport should be taken out to the desert and shot.
Click to expand...

How many more trophies do his sons need? Rescinding the ban so his boys can hack off and pose with an elephant's tail or a dead leopard is truly an abuse of power. jmo
 
It seems the WH has put a hold on the reversal, possibly as a response to all the bad publicity. Still, it crowded the tax scam bill release a bit in the news stakes..
 
Last edited:
azgreg said:
I can imagine in their cabinet meetings Trump asking "What else did Obumer do?" Then one his minions mentions something and Trump starts to rub his hands together grinning "That's a good one.....reverse it!"
Click to expand...

It doesn't hurt that both of his sons are big game hunters, and love to kill elephants.
 
Manc Skipper said:
It seems the WH has put a hold on the reversal, possibly as a response to all the bad publicity. Still, it crowded the tax scam bill release a bit in the news stakes..
Click to expand...
He seems to backtrack a lot. So much for the macho decisive he-man his Suckers think him to be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom