• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Senate GOP tax bill will include repeal of ObamaCare mandate

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
94,281
Reaction score
82,663
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Senate GOP tax bill will include repeal of ObamaCare mandate

BY ALEXANDER BOLTON, PETER SULLIVAN AND NAOMI JAGODA
The Hill
11/14/17

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) announced Tuesday that the Senate tax bill will include language to repeal ObamaCare’s individual mandate, which could make it tougher for moderate Republicans to support. Conservatives led by GOP Sens. Ted Cruz (Texas), Rand Paul (Ky.) and Tom Cotton (Ark.) pushed hard to include the provision, which would eliminate the federal penalty on people who do not buy health insurance. President Trump has also pushed for the provision to be part of the tax bill. McConnell told reporters that adding the individual mandate repeal will make it easier to muster 50 votes to pass the bill. Sen. John Thune (S.D.), the Senate's No. 3 Republican, told reporters there has been a whip count and he is confident Republicans can pass a tax bill that includes a measure to repeal the mandate. Thune said a compromise bill negotiated by Sens. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) and Patty Murray (D-Wash.), aimed at stabilizing ObamaCare markets, would be brought up separately. That bill funds key payments to insurers for two years in exchange for more flexibility for states to change ObamaCare rules.

Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) blasted the move, saying in a statement, "Republicans just can’t help themselves. They’re so determined to provide tax giveaways to the rich that they’re willing to raise premiums on millions of middle-class Americans and kick 13 million people off their health care." Experts have predicted repealing the mandate would undermine the stability of ObamaCare. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has said 13 million people would lose health insurance. Alexander added that experts have called the penalty too low to make much of a difference, and the CBO recently revised its estimates of the mandate repeal. "So I don't think we know [the impact], but I think it would be a very bad idea to repeal the individual mandate and not pass Alexander-Murray," Alexander said.
Click to expand...

The GOP apparently will include a repeal of the ACA in their tax reform legislation. IMO, because the proposed GOP Senate (and GOP House) versions of tax reform are in excess of the $1.5 trillion dollar/decade limit to pass tax legislation using the Senate Rules of Reconciliation (51 votes to pass rather than 60) the GOP has to find an additional savings of ~1.2 trillion dollars/decade. Rather than decrease the huge tax breaks to the 1% wealthy and corporations, the GOP will save the ~1.2 trillion/decade by repealing Obamacare and removing healthcare from millions of Americans.
 
You forgot the massive tax break for golf course owners... wonder why that is in there...
 
Folks wonder why there are so many leaks to the media these days. That's because folks in government aren't always very honest and forthcoming about things. Take the repeal of the individual mandate in the ACA for example. The GOP couldn't defeat the ACA on their own. So, they once again use a backhanded tactic to undermine the law - something that goes contrary to their duty to the Constitution:

Art. I, Section 8 (last clause)

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Click to expand...

So, one way Congress has undermined the ACA was in defunding efforts. Now, they're trying to remove a fundamental funding mechanism from the law itself. (And we won't even talk about the Exec. Orders that have also worked to undermine the law.)

When Congress goes out of its way to undermine a law, it is, in affect violating the Constitution.
 
Objective Voice said:
Folks wonder why there are so many leaks to the media these days. That's because folks in government aren't always very honest and forthcoming about things. Take the repeal of the individual mandate in the ACA for example. The GOP couldn't defeat the ACA on their own. So, they once again use a backhanded tactic to undermine the law - something that goes contrary to their duty to the Constitution:

Art. I, Section 8 (last clause)



So, one way Congress has undermined the ACA was in defunding efforts. Now, they're trying to remove a fundamental funding mechanism from the law itself. (And we won't even talk about the Exec. Orders that have also worked to undermine the law.)

When Congress goes out of its way to undermine a law, it is, in affect violating the Constitution.
Click to expand...

Few points
The CBO cannot provide an estimate until the bill is passed. What happens if it is over the mandated 1.5 Trillion?? Does it go back to Congress?
Can the Senate Parliamentarian hold the bill till the CBO does a cost analysis??
Are all 52 Senators on board with a repeal?
When is the winner of the Alabama Senate race seated? New year or after election?
 
Adding some clarity. The Senate GOP tax reform bill would repeal the ACA mandate portion of the ACA. However an ACA mandate repeal is in effect another poison arrow.
 
Once again the GOP's legislative "strategy," if one can call it that, boggles the mind. Don't they want to pass something?
 
Rogue Valley said:
Adding some clarity. The Senate GOP tax reform bill would repeal the ACA mandate portion of the ACA. However an ACA mandate repeal is in effect another poison arrow.
Click to expand...

Sounds like its more of a antidote if you ask me.
Lol....the ACAs mandate, what a horrible idea. Its a great example of why Government, especially one run by Leftist shouldn't be allowed to interfere in market economies, or in something they know nothing about.

The Obama administration thought that the best way to provide " affordable healthcare " wasnt through Free market principles, no, it was through a authortarian ham fisted approach.

Here's the product, now buy it or else...LOL ! Its like CHILDREN came up with the idea, or the Sopranos, you pick.

Your premiums keep rising ? Too bad, buy it. Deductibles keep risng ? FU, buy it or we're fining you

And you people DEFEND this !! Lol !!
 
Fenton said:
And you people DEFEND this !! Lol !!
Click to expand...

Certainly. The GOP offered nothing like the 10 Essential Healthcare Benefits

  • Ambulatory patient services (outpatient care you get without being admitted to a hospital)
  • Emergency services
  • Hospitalization (like surgery and overnight stays)
  • Pregnancy, maternity, and newborn care (both before and after birth)
  • Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment (this includes counseling and psychotherapy)
  • Prescription drugs
  • Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices (services and devices to help people with injuries, disabilities, or chronic conditions gain or recover mental and physical skills)
  • Laboratory services
  • Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
  • Pediatric services, including oral and vision care (but adult dental and vision coverage aren’t essential health benefits)

The GOP offered :::drumroll::: stripping all healthcare from 24 million Americans and stealing $800 billion dollars from Medicaid for tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans
 
Objective Voice said:
Folks wonder why there are so many leaks to the media these days. That's because folks in government aren't always very honest and forthcoming about things. Take the repeal of the individual mandate in the ACA for example. The GOP couldn't defeat the ACA on their own. So, they once again use a backhanded tactic to undermine the law - something that goes contrary to their duty to the Constitution:

Art. I, Section 8 (last clause)

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Click to expand...

So, one way Congress has undermined the ACA was in defunding efforts. Now, they're trying to remove a fundamental funding mechanism from the law itself. (And we won't even talk about the Exec. Orders that have also worked to undermine the law.)

When Congress goes out of its way to undermine a law, it is, in affect violating the Constitution.
Click to expand...
The purpose of Obamacare repeal was precisely to eliminate taxes on rich GOP donors. They couldn't do it then, so now they want to place a provision on "tax reform" that will increase by 13 million the number of uninsured Americans. As we've been saying, tax "reform" is going to hurt a lot more people than those who directly see a tax increase. This is completely immoral. The GOP has become, based upon recent events, as the morally reprehensible party.
 
Greenbeard said:
Repealing the individual mandate jacks premiums up 10%.

Repealing the Individual Health Insurance Mandate: An Updated Estimate
Click to expand...

Lol ! Suuure it it does. Nope, there's nothing the GOP can do to give people who dont receive subsidies any relief, its a hopeless cause.

Because just thinking about changing ObamaCare causes premiums and deeuctibles to rise.

The ONLY thing the GOP can do is to abandon their base and totally acquiesce to the will of the minority party and its supporters

They need to fall in line with the party that passed a horrible healthcare law on false pretenses and bull **** CBO projections
 
Fenton said:
Sounds like its more of a antidote if you ask me.
Lol....the ACAs mandate, what a horrible idea. Its a great example of why Government, especially one run by Leftist shouldn't be allowed to interfere in market economies, or in something they know nothing about.

The Obama administration thought that the best way to provide " affordable healthcare " wasnt through Free market principles, no, it was through a authortarian ham fisted approach.

Here's the product, now buy it or else...LOL ! Its like CHILDREN came up with the idea, or the Sopranos, you pick.

Your premiums keep rising ? Too bad, buy it. Deductibles keep risng ? FU, buy it or we're fining you

And you people DEFEND this !! Lol !!
Click to expand...

And, as usual, another leftist policy which impacts the poor and middle class disproportionately. You know, the very people libs pretend to care about, but constantly target with bad policy? :roll:
 
Rogue Valley said:
Senate GOP tax bill will include repeal of ObamaCare mandate



The GOP apparently will include a repeal of the ACA in their tax reform legislation. IMO, because the proposed GOP Senate (and GOP House) versions of tax reform are in excess of the $1.5 trillion dollar/decade limit to pass tax legislation using the Senate Rules of Reconciliation (51 votes to pass rather than 60) the GOP has to find an additional savings of ~1.2 trillion dollars/decade. Rather than decrease the huge tax breaks to the 1% wealthy and corporations, the GOP will save the ~1.2 trillion/decade by repealing Obamacare and removing healthcare from millions of Americans.
Click to expand...

Let's get a 99% and up rate on those lousy rich people, free health care for all, except the rich. And the best way to be healthy is to have your own home and a nice income. So, other than the rich, a free house for everyone (of course a car too), internet, TV, etc... and let's start at a $50k income. But, will it happen?
 
Fenton said:
Lol ! Suuure it it does. Nope, there's nothing the GOP can do to give people who dont receive subsidies any relief, its a hopeless cause.

Because just thinking about changing ObamaCare causes premiums and deeuctibles to rise.

The ONLY thing the GOP can do is to abandon their base and totally acquiesce to the will of the minority party and its supporters

They need to fall in line with the party that passed a horrible healthcare law on false pretenses and bull **** CBO projections
Click to expand...

Yes, because with Obamacare we've reached the absolute apex in health care and low cost. Everything we try from here on increases rates, debt, war, and global warming.
 
Fenton said:
Lol ! Suuure it it does. Nope, there's nothing the GOP can do to give people who dont receive subsidies any relief, its a hopeless cause.
Click to expand...

It’s pretty inexcusable to not understand what adverse selection is this late in the game. The GOP’s “plan” here was tried in nearly a dozen states between the 1990s and passage of the ACA. In every one of those states premiums went up due to adverse selection. The only one that emerged with a functional individual market was the one with an individual mandate (ie, a deterrent to adverse selection), Massachusetts.

Repealing the individual mandate doesn’t provide “relief,” it jacks up premiums.

And I should’ve been clearer in my post: premiums aren’t 10 percent higher without the mandate, they rise by an extra 10 percent every year. Which means they’ll be double what they’d be under the ACA within a decade. This idea is a disaster.
 
countryboy said:
And, as usual, another leftist policy which impacts the poor and middle class disproportionately. You know, the very people libs pretend to care about, but constantly target with bad policy? :roll:
Click to expand...

Versus the Republican plan that will hurt those with pre-existing conditions, hurt middle aged people, allow people to get kicked off their insurance when they get sick and allow lifetime and yearly caps on healthcare which will definitely hurt cancer patients and many other pre-existing conditions.
 
I'm not going to get much into the Tax Reform bill itself, but just so it's out there: It's not the best because for those who are writing the paychecks at the big businesses (and small), it doesn't inspire much economic growth, so their tax rates still need to come down much more if you want to see a true booming economy. The rest of it, for the most part is fine (not great, but better than what it was). It's, at least, a step in the right direction, but hopefully that will change eventually so it's running in that direction. Anyway, I was wondering when someone would finally include stuff from Obamacare to be repealed because those parts do affect taxes. My only question is (and feel free to chime in because I don't know) does that include BOTH the individual and the employer mandates, or one or the other? It's all fine and dandy if the individual mandate is gone so we will no longer be punished for not getting health insurance (thank God), but the only reason why I say that is the employer mandate hurts the business itself and employees (and the employer) are getting a smaller paycheck as a result of it. Get rid of both then you'll see wages go back up. I can see more things within Obamacare get repealed in the near future because a lot of it does have to deal with taxes, but we'll see what happens.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Senate GOP tax bill will include repeal of ObamaCare mandate



The GOP apparently will include a repeal of the ACA in their tax reform legislation. IMO, because the proposed GOP Senate (and GOP House) versions of tax reform are in excess of the $1.5 trillion dollar/decade limit to pass tax legislation using the Senate Rules of Reconciliation (51 votes to pass rather than 60) the GOP has to find an additional savings of ~1.2 trillion dollars/decade. Rather than decrease the huge tax breaks to the 1% wealthy and corporations, the GOP will save the ~1.2 trillion/decade by repealing Obamacare and removing healthcare from millions of Americans.
Click to expand...

They are not repealing Obamacare. They are repealing the Obamacare mandate. And, the only people who will be "losing" insurance are the ones who don't want it in the first place. Let's be honest.
 
Objective Voice said:
Folks wonder why there are so many leaks to the media these days. That's because folks in government aren't always very honest and forthcoming about things. Take the repeal of the individual mandate in the ACA for example. The GOP couldn't defeat the ACA on their own. So, they once again use a backhanded tactic to undermine the law - something that goes contrary to their duty to the Constitution:

Art. I, Section 8 (last clause)



So, one way Congress has undermined the ACA was in defunding efforts. Now, they're trying to remove a fundamental funding mechanism from the law itself. (And we won't even talk about the Exec. Orders that have also worked to undermine the law.)

When Congress goes out of its way to undermine a law, it is, in affect violating the Constitution.
Click to expand...

That was quite a stretch. If you are right then you don't have nothing to worry about. Democrats can just take it to court for violating the constitution.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Certainly. The GOP offered nothing like the 10 Essential Healthcare Benefits

  • Ambulatory patient services (outpatient care you get without being admitted to a hospital)
  • Emergency services
  • Hospitalization (like surgery and overnight stays)
  • Pregnancy, maternity, and newborn care (both before and after birth)
  • Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment (this includes counseling and psychotherapy)
  • Prescription drugs
  • Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices (services and devices to help people with injuries, disabilities, or chronic conditions gain or recover mental and physical skills)
  • Laboratory services
  • Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
  • Pediatric services, including oral and vision care (but adult dental and vision coverage aren’t essential health benefits)

The GOP offered :::drumroll::: stripping all healthcare from 24 million Americans and stealing $800 billion dollars from Medicaid for tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans
Click to expand...

We didn't have the essential health benefits before Obamacare and insurance back then was much better and cheaper than it is today. Of course there were some horror stories but there are still many horror stories with Obamacare.
 
countryboy said:
And, as usual, another leftist policy which impacts the poor and middle class disproportionately. You know, the very people libs pretend to care about, but constantly target with bad policy? :roll:
Click to expand...

That's the bottom line with liberal policies. Their hearts are in the right places but, in reality, their policies either don't help the ones they want to help or downright hurt the ones they are trying to help. They pass things because they sound good and don't think them through. Then, when things don't work out the way they planned, they double down on the very things that backfired in the first place.
 
Moderate Right said:
That's the bottom line with liberal policies. Their hearts are in the right places but, in reality, their policies either don't help the ones they want to help or downright hurt the ones they are trying to help. They pass things because they sound good and don't think them through. Then, when things don't work out the way they planned, they double down on the very things that backfired in the first place.
Click to expand...

Liberalism always, always, always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.
 
Anthony60 said:
Let's get a 99% and up rate on those lousy rich people, free health care for all, except the rich. And the best way to be healthy is to have your own home and a nice income. So, other than the rich, a free house for everyone (of course a car too), internet, TV, etc... and let's start at a $50k income. But, will it happen?
Click to expand...

The funny thing is we have these models that don't work. With liberal policies there should be no homeless people anywhere and yet you look at California, New York, and some others, homeless people abound everywhere in record numbers. Why are there homeless people in California or New York? Because liberal policies obviously don't work.
 
Greenbeard said:
It’s pretty inexcusable to not understand what adverse selection is this late in the game. The GOP’s “plan” here was tried in nearly a dozen states between the 1990s and passage of the ACA. In every one of those states premiums went up due to adverse selection. The only one that emerged with a functional individual market was the one with an individual mandate (ie, a deterrent to adverse selection), Massachusetts.

Repealing the individual mandate doesn’t provide “relief,” it jacks up premiums.

And I should’ve been clearer in my post: premiums aren’t 10 percent higher without the mandate, they rise by an extra 10 percent every year. Which means they’ll be double what they’d be under the ACA within a decade. This idea is a disaster.
Click to expand...

Obamacare is the disaster.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom