• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NYT: Trump Says Putin ‘Means It’ About Not Meddling in U.S. Elections

Athanasius68 said:
Ok- so what evidence do you have that Putin is NOT in control of the Russian government?
Click to expand...

Do you think President Trump is in control of the U.S. government? Or is he the one held accountable for what it does?

Was Barack Obama in control of the U.S. government when agencies went beserk with wild parties and extravagant waste of taxpayer money on his watch? When the IRS violated it trust by targeting innocent citizens just because of their ideology? Etc.? Did Obama order Loretta Lynch to meet with Bill Clinton at the airport that day? Or did he order Hillary to put that server in the basement of her home?

As a one time CEO of a large organization, I can assure you I was not in control of a LOT that went on in that organization. And I'm quite sure that to this day there were a few unkosher things that went on that I still don't know about. I wish I could have been in control. I could have spared us all a lot of grief.

I can believe a lot goes on in the Russian government that Putin never hears about too.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Look-- its one thing to question and challenge the claim that Trump and Putin were in cahoots to throw the election.

Its another to suggest it wouldnt happen because Putin is such an honorable man who would never engage in such skuldudgery. 'interfere with an election??!!' Why, the KGB would never do that!!'
I mean, lets be real.
Click to expand...

Oh no, I know full well that Putin can do some pretty underhanded things.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Do you think President Trump is in control of the U.S. government? Or is he the one held accountable for what it does?

Was Barack Obama in control of the U.S. government when agencies went beserk with wild parties and extravagant waste of taxpayer money on his watch? When the IRS violated it trust by targeting innocent citizens just because of their ideology? Etc.? Did Obama order Loretta Lynch to meet with Bill Clinton at the airport that day? Or did he order Hillary to put that server in the basement of her home?

As a one time CEO of a large organization, I can assure you I was not in control of a LOT that went on in that organization. And I'm quite sure that to this day there were a few unkosher things that went on that I still don't know about. I wish I could have been in control. I could have spared us all a lot of grief.

I can believe a lot goes on in the Russian government that Putin never hears about too.
Click to expand...

In the executive department, of course Trump or Obama are to be held responsible. Its their job to know. Perhaps not to blame for the actual act.

But then we are left with a claim that Putin would have been unaware of an intelligence operation against the USA, the blowback from which could be massive. It is simply not plausable.
 
Saladin4 said:
Good to see Brennen-Clapper and Comey all call trump a loud mouth ass hole today......Now trump is kissing butt with the thug in the Phillipines....
Click to expand...

They're all unemployed and collecting welfare right about now.
 
Athanasius68 said:
In the executive department, of course Trump or Obama are to be held responsible. Its their job to know. Perhaps not to blame for the actual act.

But then we are left with a claim that Putin would have been unaware of an intelligence operation against the USA, the blowback from which could be massive. It is simply not plausable.
Click to expand...

Do you presume that President Trump, President Obama, President Bush 43, President Clinton, President Bush 41 etc. knew everything their justice departments and/or intelligence agencies were investigating? There are roughly 28,000 employees in the Dept. of Justice, more than 35,000 in the FBI, about 20,000 in the CIA. Would the directors of those agencies know everything happening within those agencies? Would any President?

As I previously explained, being accountable/responsible for and knowing everything that is happening are two entirely different things.
 
Pres. Trump said he believed that Putin believes there was no Russia meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

Put another way: Trump is convinced that Putin is convinced there was no meddling.

That's really a cop out and it's sad.

It's a cop out because our own President won't confront this man when the evidence is clear the Russian government interfered with American democracy.

It's sad that our own President is trying to hard to give cover our #1 geo-political foe. (Hey, if you believe that was the case when Mitt Romney declared them as such in 2012, why don't you believe that remains the case today?)
 
AlbqOwl said:
Do you presume that President Trump, President Obama, President Bush 43, President Clinton, President Bush 41 etc. knew everything their justice departments and/or intelligence agencies were investigating? There are roughly 28,000 employees in the Dept. of Justice, more than 35,000 in the FBI, about 20,000 in the CIA. Would the directors of those agencies know everything happening within those agencies? Would any President?

As I previously explained, being accountable/responsible for and knowing everything that is happening are two entirely different things.
Click to expand...

Of course not. I am sure, somewhere in the vast bureaucracy, sonebody called out sick today. And I am sure President Trump has no knowledge of it. Nor is it unreasonable that he doesnt.
And I am sure somebody in the Russian government called out sick today and that President Putin doesnt know about. And its not unreasonable that he doesnt know.

But to suggest that the president of Russia, an ex-spook himself, has no knowledge of a strategy to destabilize the USA...?
That is NOT reasonable to believe.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Of course not. I am sure, somewhere in the vast bureaucracy, sonebody called out sick today. And I am sure President Trump has no knowledge of it. Nor is it unreasonable that he doesnt.
And I am sure somebody in the Russian government called out sick today and that President Putin doesnt know about. And its not unreasonable that he doesnt know.

But to suggest that the president of Russia, an ex-spook himself, has no knowledge of a strategy to destabilize the USA...?
That is NOT reasonable to believe.
Click to expand...

Maybe. Maybe not. I still remember not so long ago, however, that Julian Assange stated on camera that the Russians were not the ones who hacked the DNC emails.

All good investigators don't just automatically accept the obvious or most especially the popular narrative. Things aren't always as they seem or how we hope they are for whatever reason.

I lost count of all the times Barack Obama said he found out about this or that scandal in his administration the same way we did, i.e. via reading about it in the newspapers. Was he telling the truth? I suspect sometimes yes. Sometimes no. But I have no evidence one way or the other to prove whether he was or was not telling the truth.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom