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Mueller Has Enough Evidence to Bring Charges in Flynn Investigation

JANFU said:
Guess I was wrong on Flynn flipping.
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People on both sides who wanted a speedy resolution to the investigation are going to be disappointed.
 
Cardinal said:
People on both sides who wanted a speedy resolution to the investigation are going to be disappointed.
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Not on a speedy resolution, anyone who realizes the complexity would know these investigations can easily run into 2 years or more.
I had figured Flynn flipped.
 
JANFU said:
Not on a speedy resolution, anyone who realizes the complexity would know these investigations can easily run into 2 years or more.
I had figured Flynn flipped.
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Whatever the expectation was, the time scale has been significantly stretched out due to the increased confidence of the targets. The trial for Manafort has been set for May, and rather than flipping, as you and I both now know, both Flynns will want to go to trial as well. In essence, we probably won't be getting any more news with the novelty appeal of Monday's revelations before then. Oh, sure, we'll probably see more indictments before May, but I doubt it'll be anything more groundbreaking than that.
 
Cardinal said:
Whatever the expectation was, the time scale has been significantly stretched out due to the increased confidence of the targets. The trial for Manafort has been set for May, and rather than flipping, as you and I both now know, both Flynns will want to go to trial as well. In essence, we probably won't be getting any more news with the novelty appeal of Monday's revelations before then. Oh, sure, we'll probably see more indictments before May, but I doubt it'll be anything more groundbreaking than that.
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Mantaforts trial(s) will go on for years. Now if Gates flips, that would be a game changer for Manatafort.
Mueller should go after the accounts he can show are laundered and freeze those. Along with any other assets as it restricts his funds for paying lawayers. And a lawyer is always with ya, when they are paid.

Mueller is looking for bigger game. But I do see Kushner and possibly Donnie Jnr in the photo lineup when charges are laid, and I think before Christmas.
Question- do they still take line up police line up photos when charged??
 
Rogue Valley said:
Flynn will cooperate ... for his son's sake and to protect his very generous military pension.
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He can only wish they will be that generous. I think he's going to prison myself.
 
upsideguy said:
Up, Trump uprgraded our infrastructure all right. Drained one swamp and built a brand new one. I don't think we have had this much corruption in a single administration since Warren Harding.
x

Trump is Leading the Most Corrupt Administration in U.S. History, One of First-Class Kleptocrats

Warren G. Harding - U.S. Presidents - HISTORY.com

The noose is tightening. Over a month ago Newsweek wrote:

"As the noose starts to close around the White House and around the Trump family, a very different set of behaviors could emerge,” Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-Rhode Island) told Politico on Tuesday. "It’s under those kinds of pressures that the special counsel needs to be able to continue its work.”

Noose Tightening Around Trump Family in Russia Probe, Top Democrat Warns

Trump is about to get even more erratic (and dangerous). My God have mercy on the United States of America and the free world.



At the very least, the Trump Administration, and Trump specifically, are guilty of gross managerial incompetence (if not dereliction of duty) by failing to perform the usual and customary due diligence appropriate in the hiring of a National Security Advisor. He had a position that made him privy to ALL of the nation's secrets. This position demands a squeaky-clean, loyal American. The vetting, obviously, was not done.

This one is on the Donald. It is a fine example of his laziness and disrespect for the office in which he inhabits.
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But but he only has the "best people!"
 
Nickyjo said:
Your final comment prompts me to ask: what do people think (supporters and opponents) it is with Trump? Do his actions, like his suggestions of the death penalty for the recent terrorist, that the DOJ should investigate the Clintons/Dems, etc., reflect ignorance of his role and how government works, arrogance and carelessness, tyrannical tendencies, or what? What he said in these cases is almost indisputably inappropriate and might be considered criminal obstruction of justice, but why does he say such dumb things?
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I find it curious you actually need to ask these questions.
 
holbritter said:
Which is it?

Federal investigators have gathered enough evidence

or

The investigators are speaking to multiple witnesses in coming days to gain more information
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Evidence points to an article that announces Russia, Flynn, and Trump in the same sentence or paragraph as being completely sufficient to make some all breathless. It's probably better to just wait and see what happens. Then we can get all breathless. Or not.
 
Cardinal said:
Now this will certainly be an interesting test of Trump's willingness to use the pardon. Trump forsook Manafort a looong time ago, but it was the investigation into Flynn that caused him to fire Comey.
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According to Trump, himself he fired Comey for failing to shut down the investigation into the Trump campaign's collusion with Russia.
 
vesper said:
How does NBC know if Mueller has enough evidence to indict Flynn and his son?

Who is doing the leaking?
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Someone patriotic enough to make sure our citizens know what kind of criminals with which our corrupt president associates.
 
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Nickyjo said:
Your final comment prompts me to ask: what do people think (supporters and opponents) it is with Trump? Do his actions, like his suggestions of the death penalty for the recent terrorist, that the DOJ should investigate the Clintons/Dems, etc., reflect ignorance of his role and how government works, arrogance and carelessness, tyrannical tendencies, or what? What he said in these cases is almost indisputably inappropriate and might be considered criminal obstruction of justice, but why does he say such dumb things?
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To play to his base. Regardless of the harmful effect of Trump's words and actions, appealing to 30% of our electorate is Trump's only objective. The White House is an international laughingstock. We will recover our standing in the world once a Democrat is back in office.
 
Cardinal said:
I think you (and sort of everybody else, to be fair) are ignoring the white elephant in the room. Flynn will hold onto the hope that a pardon could be in store for him. After Arpaio, there's no way he's not thinking of that.
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In the spirit of "correcting others, that's entirely irrelevant Cardinal.

Mueller and anyone competent in his position will play the best hand they have in the best way possible. To do otherwise would be incompetence.
What are you suggesting he do, don't execute the best overall strategy because he wants to gamble that IF they do succeed at shaking loose convictions, Trump *may* pardon them? It makes no difference, he has to simply do the best possible given the circumstances. His odds are definitely lower with pardon power looming, but it's still the best odds so you roll them.

Worrying about pardons is only relevant in that calculus if he's allowed to, and able to, have state charges brought against someone in anticipation of this. The idea that they have not thought that through, doesn't seem like a white elephant in the room. Presidential power is substantial, and it dramatically limits what legal jeopardy can be brought to bear against anyone Trump chooses, and for himself personally. There's nothing to be done about that by Mueller. From what I understand some state AG (NY at least) was brought in early on, I suspect they will do what they can on that front and have factored it all in.

Trump is a dangerous mother****er and has the power of the president. Not an ideal situation.
 
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lurchadams said:
To play to his base. Regardless of the harmful effect of Trump's words and actions, appealing to 30% of our electorate is Trump's only objective. The White House is an international laughingstock. We will recover our standing in the world once a Democrat is back in office.
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Sorry, after Trumps done, it will be decades before anybody takes America seriously again.
 
MovingPictures said:
Sorry, after Trumps done, it will be decades before anybody takes America seriously again.
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I hang my hopes on America being resilient. We tend to pull together and bounce back from tragedies. Even one as severe as Trump and his administration.
 
lurchadams said:
I hang my hopes on America being resilient. We tend to pull together and bounce back from tragedies. Even one as severe as Trump and his administration.
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I use to, but I don't any longer. You will see a bubble burst otherwise it will conitnue to grow. We have not seen any bubble burst, we ARE are seeing it continue to grow.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ia-fox-trump-white-house-circa-breitbart-news
For example, the rise of Sinclair, looming + Tribune. Murdoch/Sinclair gave us Trump, and Trump is scratching their back in return. These are media empires, built on anti-democrat platforms, supported by the presidents they help to elect...in plain sight no less.

During last year’s presidential campaign, Sinclair conducted zero interviews with Clinton. But it touted 15 “exclusive” ones with Trump, which aired mostly in critical swing states in the final months of the election and without any commentary, despite the copious fact-checking Trump interviews tend to require. Sinclair has insisted it had no special arrangement with the Trump campaign and that Clinton simply did not make herself available to them. Clinton campaign officials say they spurned Sinclair for a reason, though her vice-presidential nominee, Tim Kaine, gave a handful interviews to Sinclair stations.

According to Politico, Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner told a room full of Manhattan business executives that the campaign had struck a deal with Sinclair to secure better coverage in the states where they needed spots most.
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Mach said:
That's entirely irrelevant Cardinal.

Mueller and anyone competent in his position will play the best hand they have in the best way possible. To do otherwise would be incompetence.
What are you suggesting he do, don't execute the best overall strategy because he wants to gamble that IF they do succeed at shaking loose convictions, Trump *may* pardon them? Why would anyone do that?

Worrying about pardons is only relevant in that calculus if he's allowed to, and able to, have state charges brought against someone in anticipation of this. The idea that they have not thought that trough, doesn't seem like a white elephant in the room.

Trump is a dangerous mother****er and has the power of the president...that's the elephant sure, but it has nothing to do with Mueller's investigation directly. That's a matter for the house/senate apparently, and later, the voters. He may pardon everyone involved in a sweeping display of the middle finger to Mueller and our entire system of justice...it would not shock anyone, and it would be supported by 33%(ish) of the population no doubt, including Fox news.
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I have to disagree.

My impression is that Mueller is not interested in flipping people at this moment. He's stacked his office with so many experts in financial crimes that it would likely be unnecessary, given that these people can untangle a web of financial fraud without flipping people. Manafort and Gates left a paper trail a mile wide that made it easy as pie to indict them, and the same will be the case with Flynn.

If he wants to go after Trump for abuse of office and obstruction, he's not really going to need people to flip. All he needs is to put people under oath and threat of perjury; plus Trump has left so much evidence for his obstruction that it's remarkable we need a special counsel.

In the unlikely scenario that Mueller dives into Trumps finances, needing people to flip is unlikely. Trumps con games with the Bayrock, Silk Road Group, and the flood of shady real estate projects, are so clunky and obvious I find it hard to believe you'd need anything other than the paperwork itself.

The only scenario he will flip someone is to find out what involvement the Trump campaign had with Russian involvement in the election itself. There are likely so many people that would be privy to it, it's unlikely he'd bother trying to flip someone with loyalty to Trump, when he could find some young cat that wants to avoid perjury charges like Papadopoulos.
 
Mach said:
I use to, but I don't any longer. You will see a bubble burst otherwise it will conitnue to grow. We have not seen any bubble burst, we ARE are seeing it continue to grow.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ia-fox-trump-white-house-circa-breitbart-news
For example, the rise of Sinclair, looming + Tribune. Murdoch/Sinclair gave us Trump, and Trump is scratching their back in return. These are media empires, built on anti-democrat platforms, supported by the presidents they help to elect...in plain sight no less.
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Wait a minute now. I thought the all U.S. media outlets were liberal Trump haters! Please don't present us with any facts that might burst our right-wing propaganda bubble!
 
MovingPictures said:
Sorry, after Trumps done, it will be decades before anybody takes America seriously again.
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We'll take some "ribbing" from our allies for awhile - but I think our allies are smart enough to realize Trump was a rare cancer upon what were otherwise, honorable past and future administrations. For all his goofiness, even W. behaved in a presidential way.

We'll get past Trump.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
I find it curious you actually need to ask these questions.
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I don’t get the guy. Seems simple to just dismiss him as an ignorant buffoon.
 
upsideguy said:
Up, Trump uprgraded our infrastructure all right. Drained one swamp and built a brand new one. I don't think we have had this much corruption in a single administration since Warren Harding. [...]
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Trump took the swamp, and turned it into a cesspool.

If the Dems were smart, they'd run on "Clean-up the cesspool" or some-such.
 
holbritter said:
Which is it?

Federal investigators have gathered enough evidence

or

The investigators are speaking to multiple witnesses in coming days to gain more information
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Why would you believe those two premises are mutually exclusive?

Criminals often commit multiple crimes.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
There was never any doubt that Mueller would put this scalp on his wall, though I tend to doubt that he has any dirt on the Trump Family or can be any help in spinning this Putin/Trump fantasy.
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Papadopolous' indictment claimed Papadopolous reported Putin's desires to meet with Trump to a campaign supervisor, whose name was redacted and still remains sealed. In the campaign Flynn was the top advisor in national security, and Papadoplous was an under national security advisor. So it's possible Flynn is the yet-to-be-known supervisor.

If so, this could be leading to Trump through Flynn.

Now there's a lot of "if's" there, but already Trump and Sessions are now claiming they don't remember the contents of the meeting where Mueller's indictments claim Papadopolous proposed the Putin meet-up. Yet there's a source claiming Trump wanted to pursue the idea, but Sessions shot it down.
 
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