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House GOP releases sweeping tax overhaul plan

Just a bit of news about talking points put out by Democratic Policy and Communications Committee.



Senate Democrats falsely claim GOP tax plan will raise taxes for most working-class families

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/11/02/senate-democrats-falsely-claim-gop-tax-plan-will-raise-taxes-for-most-working-class-families/?utm_term=.d19c7cc2cae1

The Pinocchio Test

In their haste to condemn the GOP tax plan, Democrats have spread far and wide the false claim that families making less than $86,100 on average will face a hefty tax hike. Actually, it’s the opposite. Most families in that income range would get a tax cut. Any Democrat who spread this claim should delete their tweets and make clear they were in error.

pinocchio_4.jpg
 
As the Times editorial states:
With their new bill that would slash taxes on the wealthy and blow up the federal budget deficit, House Republicans and President Trump are making it absolutely clear whom they are working for — the top 1 percent — and whom they consider dispensable.
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All the talk of populism is merely BS.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
Just a bit of news about talking points put out by Democratic Policy and Communications Committee.



Senate Democrats falsely claim GOP tax plan will raise taxes for most working-class families

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/11/02/senate-democrats-falsely-claim-gop-tax-plan-will-raise-taxes-for-most-working-class-families/?utm_term=.d19c7cc2cae1

The Pinocchio Test

In their haste to condemn the GOP tax plan, Democrats have spread far and wide the false claim that families making less than $86,100 on average will face a hefty tax hike. Actually, it’s the opposite. Most families in that income range would get a tax cut. Any Democrat who spread this claim should delete their tweets and make clear they were in error.

View attachment 67224557
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I note this was based on Tax Policy estimates. I still haven't seen where the brackets fall on what incomes, so how can I tell if my taxes will go up or down? Without that information, I would rate any claims on what this will do as 4 pinnochios.
 
jmotivator said:
Was Mulvaney talking about 3% ABOVE the current three percent or SUSTAINING the 3%?



From your provided evidence, since he stated that there will be deficits, I don't believe he was not adding 3% on top of the current 2-3%, he was talking about sustaining the current 3% growth rate.... which is also what they gave to CBO for scoring. By your own argument a 5-6% growth would be budget neutral which he said wouldn't happen.
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Trumps tax reform can't be deficit-neutral (pay for itself) with only 3% economic growth. In order to pay for the lost $1.5 trillion in revenue over 10 years, a sustained economic growth rate of 5-6 percentage points per year is required.

That's an economic miracle that is not going to happen.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trumps tax reform can't be deficit-neutral (pay for itself) with only 3% economic growth. In order to pay for the lost $1.5 trillion in revenue over 10 years, a sustained economic growth rate of 5-6 percentage points per year is required.

That's an economic miracle that is not going to happen.
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I realize that! My point is that the quote you gave from Mulvaney clearly shows that he doesn't expect it to be budget neutral either. You have falsely assume, against your own evidence, that Mulvaney expects 3% growth on top of the existing 2-3% growth. He simply doesn't, by you own quote he doesn't.
 
CletusWilbury said:
How has the AMT effected you? (I've seen that argument used on other issues, I don't think it's a valid argument)

So seriously, why?
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I just looked it up.

Last year, my total tax burden (with my deductions) would have been $4,897. After the AMT was factored in, I owed $7,258.

And nobody can explain why.
 
Just the same failed Trickle Down plan with a different colored bow. The Republicans only have one plan...and the fact that it fails over and over and over...doesn't stop them from trying to sell it to us yet again.
 
faithful_servant said:
Estate taxes = the death of family owned farms. Most decent sized farms have a value over $1,000,000, so when Papa dies and leaves the farm to his daughter, she has to pay the taxes on the amount over $1,000,000. All too often that means selling the family farm to a mega-farm corp. because there isn't anyone else with the cash.
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LOL....do you know how ridiculous that argument sounds? If you believe that elimination of the estate tax is meant to protect farmers.....then you will believe pretty much anything.
 
faithful_servant said:
Estate taxes = the death of family owned farms. Most decent sized farms have a value over $1,000,000, so when Papa dies and leaves the farm to his daughter, she has to pay the taxes on the amount over $1,000,000. All too often that means selling the family farm to a mega-farm corp. because there isn't anyone else with the cash.
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so FS, numerous posters have pointed out how completely false your claim was. But now that you know it was completely false, I want to know why you posted it. Did you hear on the radio? fox news? And now that you know its completely false, do you still support getting rid of it? to me it just seems fair to have it. Rich people don't always have to realize their capital gains. Case in point, Steinbrenner paid 7 million for the Yankees. His family inherited a 3 billion dollar business. No capital gains were paid on that. Why is that fair?
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trumps tax reform can't be deficit-neutral (pay for itself) with only 3% economic growth. In order to pay for the lost $1.5 trillion in revenue over 10 years, a sustained economic growth rate of 5-6 percentage points per year is required.

That's an economic miracle that is not going to happen.
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Holy Crap! Read you own provided Mulvane quotes!! He doesn't say it would be revenue neutral. He in fact states that it won't be revenue neutral, and the the 3% growth is what they want to sustain.

It's kind of a busted point anyway since the bill ads a 6% surcharge for income e over $1 million to help cover the tax cuts on income under $1 million. This creates a kind of 46% tax bracket that either runs all year, or until those who earn over $1 million cover the tab for the year. Will this make it revenue neutral? Don't know. Hard to tell which direction private accountants would take that.
 
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Erod said:
I just looked it up.

Last year, my total tax burden (with my deductions) would have been $4,897. After the AMT was factored in, I owed $7,258.

And nobody can explain why.
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Trying to figure it out....

Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) Assistant for Individuals
From Form 1040 :
Line 10: Taxable refunds, credits, or offsets of state and local income taxes
Line 21: Other income. List type and amount
Line 38: adjusted gross income
Line 40: Itemized deductions or your standard deduction
Line 41: Subtract line 40 from line 38
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The assistant says: "Enter the tax refund amount(s) included in Form 1040, Line 21 (if any)"
but line 21 is 'other income" ?

This seems entirely too confusing, but I agree with the overall principle.
 
jmotivator said:
I realize that! My point is that the quote you gave from Mulvaney clearly shows that he doesn't expect it to be budget neutral either. You have falsely assume, against your own evidence, that Mulvaney expects 3% growth on top of the existing 2-3% growth. He simply doesn't, by you own quote he doesn't.
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Different economic "experts" on the Trump team have given numbers raging from 3-6% economic growth annually for ten years.

Tell us ... at 3% how is the Trump/GOP tax reform plan going to make up for the 1.5+ trillion revenue shortfall?

Jesus. You bitch about 5-6% but can't explain how it all works at 3%.
 
holbritter said:
But didn't they also go to work to get the investment money?
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Please understand that most ultra-wealthy are getting their earnings through passive investments and corporate dividends, etc. Do you "go to work" when you receive your 3-5% return on your 401K each year?
Someone with $50M dollars earns maybe $2M+ just on interest. Per year. If they want to spend a few million on campaign contributions to get government on their side, what are you going to do to prevent it? (most probably make far more, having more active investments in businesses directly, etc.)
 
Trippy Trekker said:
Some of you who maintain a Homestead in Florida might want to read the following excerpt. As a self-employed R.E. Broker/Realtor, almost everyday I receive Realtor-related information updates via email.
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you can still deduct your mortgage interest but it is capped at 500k.
which is fine with me.

also i say BS to anyone that says someone buys a home for a tax deduction.
no one is going to spend 300-400+k dollars for a 1k dollar deduction at the end of the year.

that is financially stupid.
People buy a home because they want it nothing more nothing less.

I didn't buy my home going ol good i can now maybe save 700 bucks on my taxes at the end of the year.
in fact that was the furthest thing from my mind.

now that they are doubling the standard deductible it is going to make it even less applicable to itemize.
 
Carjosse said:
I think he is saying that capital gains should not have a separate rate, for example I think he means that the $500 capital gains on that stock would be added to your overall income.
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It is if the stock is sold <1 year from time of purchase.
THis is known as a short term capital gain and it is taxed as normal income.

long term capital gains are held for 1 year or more and taxed at a lower rate.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Different economic "experts" on the Trump team have given numbers raging from 3-6% economic growth annually for ten years.
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You keep changing your argument. You stated that Trump and Mulvaney have claimed 5-6% growth and then provided contrary evidence. If Mulvaney is stating 3% growth, and the GOP gave the 3% estimate to the CBO then tell me who it is that said 5-6%? Do you have a quote?

Tell us ... at 3% how is the Trump/GOP tax reform plan going to make up for the 1.5+ trillion revenue shortfall?
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LOL. I never claimed the tax cut would be revenue neutral. I am challenging you claim that the Trump administration claimed that it would create 5-6% growth.

Jesus. You bitch about 5-6% but can't explain how it all works at 3%.
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How WHAT works? Are you trying to make an argument regarding Reconciliation rules?

Because reconciliation doesn't require budget neutrality on a tax bill.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Different economic "experts" on the Trump team have given numbers raging from 3-6% economic growth annually for ten years.

Tell us ... at 3% how is the Trump/GOP tax reform plan going to make up for the 1.5+ trillion revenue shortfall?

Jesus. You bitch about 5-6% but can't explain how it all works at 3%.
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Donald Trump Says Tax Plan Could Lift GDP Growth to 6%

Fact Check: Trump Says He’d Push GDP Growth '5 or 6%’

Trump promised to grow the economy by 6 percent annually to increase tax revenues. That would be too fast for healthy economic growth. It would create inflation, a boom-bust cycle, and then a crash. Trump intends to do that despite cutting taxes. He believes in supply-side economics. It says that tax cuts will drive enough growth to make up for the lost tax revenue.

Donald Trump's Economic Plan
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Sorry, Donald Trump: The U.S. can’t grow like India and China

To make up for the lost tax revenue over a decade (-$1.5+ trillion) the annual US economic growth rate would need to be at a sustained ~6.1%.
 
Eliminate deductions for student loan interest, medical bills...

Tax tuition waivers for grad students. Working on a PHD and get a $14,000 stipend + tuition waived? Guess what? You're paying taxes on the $50,000 tuition we "paid" you.

These ****s are deliberately trying to destroy higher education.
 
Mach said:
Please understand that most ultra-wealthy are getting their earnings through passive investments and corporate dividends, etc. Do you "go to work" when you receive your 3-5% return on your 401K each year?
Someone with $50M dollars earns maybe $2M+ just on interest. Per year. If they want to spend a few million on campaign contributions to get government on their side, what are you going to do to prevent it? (most probably make far more, having more active investments in businesses directly, etc.)
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I 'went to work' to earn the money put into the 401K to earn that return. Those passive investments didn't just appear, they are being earned off of money that has been earned by working. That's what I meant.
 
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